Game Thread Night Hut Mafia - The Treacherous Neighborhoods

[Jamie]

@kokirion

 

[Jamie]

Err, I meant coordinated your moves with deku. Not koki.

 

[kokirion]

I'm back. All of yesterday and today I've had to move furniture (I'm moving to a new appartment these days), so I'm a little bit late here.

I never ruled out that Deku could have been scum, BUT, I honestly honestly honestly believed Libk was scum. I feel a tad embarrassed there. I expected a misplaced bandwagon on me this morning, and I felt very unmotivated to keep defending me.

Having said that, I'm not going to move heaven and earth to stay alive today. I already feel stupid enough over that last lynch.
But I did decide to come back to post today. Jamie survived the night. After Deku's flip and the eclipse I did not even think that would happen.
The only way Dekunut died is because you are the Town Asshole, Jamie. But that is good. There is no role left to counter that. And the question is whether the mafia is willing to risk hitting you again. Even if you don't hide behind the mafia member, a random townie will be killed (and probably one who has been seen as very suspicious, limiting the amount of persons the actual mafia could be). It will be better to kill that random townie by choice than by risking to kill themselves.
With 5 alive, we'll have 2 days left, instead of 1. And the final day (if we don't kill mafia today) will be a fight between 3 people, what probably isn't favourable for the mafia. The other reason I came back to play is because it actually isn't 100% clear WHO the real mafia player is.... I'm not dead yet so I will not give up. Not until I'm killed. Lynched or nightkilled. And even in that case I can still contribute to catching the real mafia member.

I was so goddamn close to switching my vote to Deku last night. After he mentioned the Eclipse thing I felt like that was so ****ing scummy to bring that up at the end of the day like that, but I couldn't bring myself to switch my vote

I'm not sure I would've changed my vote, I was quite focussed on Libk. But due to my European timezone, I missed that anyway.

So, here we go:
1. @Ver-go-a-go-go where the **** are you? Seriously, if you are scum and town loses, I'm going to feel a bit cheated because you and your predecessor didn't play for the entire ****ing game, so what are we as town supposed to do? Literally zero posts from either player. ALIT this has to be fixed somehow.
2. kokirion was a major proponent of lynching Libk since day 1, that stands out to me as suspicious now
3. Minish Link changed her vote, yes, but what if she knew Deku was going to come in and vote for Libk immediately afterwards, which is what happened (31 minutes later to be exact). If that was the case...well, then she's scum and looks pretty good right now. So, I'm definitely considering that possibility.
4. Bok does not seem scummy to me, unless he was lead by his scum mates I can't see him making some early moves he did as scum. But not writing anybody off of course.

True. I was. I was focussed 100% on Libk. But the only thing I can say in my defense is that I'm not utterly stupid. If I was mafia I would've also known from the start that Libk is town. Being so focussed on him, it would have been super obvious that in the case he'd die everyone would think I am suspicious. I could have also tried to be on good terms with him. Heck, I made enemies with Libk and Bok. I even motivated you to make that bet to vote against Libk. I'm NOT in a good position, but all of that could have been prevented, had I cared about that.

Okay, so my thoughts on our neighborhood:

Bok- He brought up the idea to reveal the huts at the same time as Jamie as soon as the game started. While I could see a more experienced player like Jamie pulling a move like that as scum to gain town cred, I'm not sure an inexperienced player would do the same without the help of scum buddies. He's been pretty active, and found some different evidence in the Mido vote. All of that has a town read for me. However, at the end of the day on the Mido vote he said that he would be taking a closer look at Deku because he still felt suspicious about him, but at the beginning of the next day he says the only inconsistency he can find with Deku is that he originally disagreed with Storm about not revealing the huts, then agreed with Libk about the same. Despite the fact that that wasn't true (which Jamie and Deku both pointed out), there were other suspicious things about Deku at that point for that to be the only thing he could find. It seems like it could have been him casting suspicion on a scum buddy to try and distance themselves, but then also not wanting to throw them under the bus too much.

Kokirion- I'll admit, I've leaned scum for him for most of the game, without really any reason. I guess it's because I was leaning town for Bok and Cslaught/Ver-go hadn't posted at all so that just left him. He has been very active and playing pretty aggressively, which both seem more town like. I like that he proposed that we try to force the mafia to play by our plan as well. However, when there was a ton of suspicion and evidence on Storm/Tristan, he voted for Libk and said that if we were going to choose a neighborhood to focus on first, he wanted it to be his (Libk's). Maybe that was a plan to shift focus from Storm, who was much more obvious as scum, to the neighborhood that would be the hardest to read? If we had started with hut 3, it probably would have given mafia an easier start, because of all the experienced players in that group.

I obviously don't have anything on Cslaught/Ver-go as there aren't really any posts to go off of. The only thing there is stuff that has been pointed out that could have been due to an inactive scum member.

I'm not sold on Bok being town. But Jamie did convince me to see it in a different light, I don't see him as completely scum either. To be honest, when Libk flipped town, I threw most of my reads away. I don't know. He "could" be scum. But Jamie, who is confirmed town, is really convinced this is his normal playstyle. What gutfeeling to trust?

And about me not voting for Storm. Firstly, I have a personal mafia policy to not vote for Storm on day 1. He is almost always the first to be accused, and as you can see in all of my games, I almost never join in to vote for him. Not because he isn't suspicious, oh yes he is! But he is so goddamn unpredictable, and I dislike to always lynch that townie whose usual behaviour is always scummy. I figured that if he is scum he will flip so much in the upcoming days even the philosopher's stone is not alive.
And if I were mafia, I would start with targeting people in Storm's neighbourhood. He was gonna die anyway, and even if he didn't get so many votes on him on day 1, knowing Storm he is hard to keep alive anyway. So why would I first start with a different neighbourhood, that just means it will be harder and harder to keep him alive. I would start with his neighbourhood. First lynch someone other than him in his neighbourhood, then on day 2 vote for him and throw him under the bus. I might get some town credit because of it and I wiped out the entire neighbourhood (if I would then also have killed the remaining player there of course), so would have lost nothing.

I really have this between koki and Minish_Link and I'd be surprised if other users didn't also have this mindset. I feel, Minish, like you could easily have coordinated your moves with koki. I'm fairly convinced at this point that if bok or vergo are scum, town is losing this game. I would like to see what @kokiron has to say before I cast my vote however.

Are you willing to potentially lose the game then?

I think Vergo is town. He is just too honest. He is town, he is not lying.

I really always believed Minish was town. Now I am reconsidering. I promised Bok to analyse all her posts today. I will. Later tonight.
I'm not going to decide between voting for Bok or Minish before finishing that analysis

 

[Deleted member 14134]

Okay, so my thoughts on our neighborhood:

Bok- He brought up the idea to reveal the huts at the same time as Jamie as soon as the game started. While I could see a more experienced player like Jamie pulling a move like that as scum to gain town cred, I'm not sure an inexperienced player would do the same without the help of scum buddies. He's been pretty active, and found some different evidence in the Mido vote. All of that has a town read for me. However, at the end of the day on the Mido vote he said that he would be taking a closer look at Deku because he still felt suspicious about him, but at the beginning of the next day he says the only inconsistency he can find with Deku is that he originally disagreed with Storm about not revealing the huts, then agreed with Libk about the same. Despite the fact that that wasn't true (which Jamie and Deku both pointed out), there were other suspicious things about Deku at that point for that to be the only thing he could find. It seems like it could have been him casting suspicion on a scum buddy to try and distance themselves, but then also not wanting to throw them under the bus too much.

My suspicion of Deku didn't come from his posts but his lack of them the day Mido was lynched (which I pointed out on both posts before and after Midos lynch). That's why I posted I at the end of the day as he could of still responded.

I have more thoughts but I don't want to post them now as I don't have time. I'll be on in about 5-6 hours and give my full thoughts when I have more time.

 

[Jamie]

I'm back. All of yesterday and today I've had to move furniture (I'm moving to a new appartment these days), so I'm a little bit late here.

I never ruled out that Deku could have been scum, BUT, I honestly honestly honestly believed Libk was scum. I feel a tad embarrassed there. I expected a misplaced bandwagon on me this morning, and I felt very unmotivated to keep defending me.

Having said that, I'm not going to move heaven and earth to stay alive today. I already feel stupid enough over that last lynch.
But I did decide to come back to post today. Jamie survived the night. After Deku's flip and the eclipse I did not even think that would happen.
The only way Dekunut died is because you are the Town Asshole, Jamie. But that is good. There is no role left to counter that. And the question is whether the mafia is willing to risk hitting you again. Even if you don't hide behind the mafia member, a random townie will be killed (and probably one who has been seen as very suspicious, limiting the amount of persons the actual mafia could be). It will be better to kill that random townie by choice than by risking to kill themselves.
With 5 alive, we'll have 2 days left, instead of 1. And the final day (if we don't kill mafia today) will be a fight between 3 people, what probably isn't favourable for the mafia. The other reason I came back to play is because it actually isn't 100% clear WHO the real mafia player is.... I'm not dead yet so I will not give up. Not until I'm killed. Lynched or nightkilled. And even in that case I can still contribute to catching the real mafia member.


I'm not sure I would've changed my vote, I was quite focussed on Libk. But due to my European timezone, I missed that anyway.


True. I was. I was focussed 100% on Libk. But the only thing I can say in my defense is that I'm not utterly stupid. If I was mafia I would've also known from the start that Libk is town. Being so focussed on him, it would have been super obvious that in the case he'd die everyone would think I am suspicious. I could have also tried to be on good terms with him. Heck, I made enemies with Libk and Bok. I even motivated you to make that bet to vote against Libk. I'm NOT in a good position, but all of that could have been prevented, had I cared about that.


I'm not sold on Bok being town. But Jamie did convince me to see it in a different light, I don't see him as completely scum either. To be honest, when Libk flipped town, I threw most of my reads away. I don't know. He "could" be scum. But Jamie, who is confirmed town, is really convinced this is his normal playstyle. What gutfeeling to trust?

And about me not voting for Storm. Firstly, I have a personal mafia policy to not vote for Storm on day 1. He is almost always the first to be accused, and as you can see in all of my games, I almost never join in to vote for him. Not because he isn't suspicious, oh yes he is! But he is so goddamn unpredictable, and I dislike to always lynch that townie whose usual behaviour is always scummy. I figured that if he is scum he will flip so much in the upcoming days even the philosopher's stone is not alive.
And if I were mafia, I would start with targeting people in Storm's neighbourhood. He was gonna die anyway, and even if he didn't get so many votes on him on day 1, knowing Storm he is hard to keep alive anyway. So why would I first start with a different neighbourhood, that just means it will be harder and harder to keep him alive. I would start with his neighbourhood. First lynch someone other than him in his neighbourhood, then on day 2 vote for him and throw him under the bus. I might get some town credit because of it and I wiped out the entire neighbourhood (if I would then also have killed the remaining player there of course), so would have lost nothing.



Are you willing to potentially lose the game then?

I think Vergo is town. He is just too honest. He is town, he is not lying.

I really always believed Minish was town. Now I am reconsidering. I promised Bok to analyse all her posts today. I will. Later tonight.
I'm not going to decide between voting for Bok or Minish before finishing that analysis

I can't confirm or deny your idea of my role because I'd be mod killed but I will say that the asshole is in a precarious position now for the reasons you pointed out.

Yeah, I agree vergo is most likely town.

I am not saying this is Bok's meta but rather because he is new I really don't believe he'd make posts along the lines that he did.

I would like to see Minish's response to my and kokis posts.

In terms of whether I'm ready to potentially lose the game, the answer is yes, I'm always ready to possibly lose. I just don't think I will.

 

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

"Town Asshole" huh? We can very much use that to our advantage in these final days, but I'll let the player them self decide that. Talking about it more seems detrimental to the town and I find it strange that such a powerful town role was talked about in these final stages. Seems like something that only scum would want to talk about in the open.

@Prophecies About Bok Choy How many games have you played on this forum before?

 

[Jamie]

"Town Asshole" huh? We can very much use that to our advantage in these final days, but I'll let the player them self decide that. Talking about it more seems detrimental to the town and I find it strange that such a powerful town role was talked about in these final stages. Seems like something that only scum would want to talk about in the open.

@Prophecies About Bok Choy How many games have you played on this forum before?

I agree, especially given the downsides of the role, that talking about it can only be a negative.

 

[Deleted member 14134]

"Town Asshole" huh? We can very much use that to our advantage in these final days, but I'll let the player them self decide that. Talking about it more seems detrimental to the town and I find it strange that such a powerful town role was talked about in these final stages. Seems like something that only scum would want to talk about in the open.

@Prophecies About Bok Choy How many games have you played on this forum before?

I played Jamies game before this but my lover got killed night one and I with him so I got no experience really. This is thr first games I've really been a big part of. Haven't played Mafia anywhere else.

 

[Morbid Minish]

I really have this between koki and Minish_Link and I'd be surprised if other users didn't also have this mindset. I feel, Minish, like you could easily have coordinated your moves with koki. I'm fairly convinced at this point that if bok or vergo are scum, town is losing this game. I would like to see what @kokiron has to say before I cast my vote however.

All I can say about the Mido vote is that I genuinely didn't know that Deku would come and vote Libk at the last moment. My vote for Deku was risky, because it did make me look suspicious, especially what I posted. If I were scum, I would have just used the evidence already there against Deku and maybe added some other things that I would know looked odd because I would know we were both mafia. However, my vote was based on gut feeling and a possible hypothetical situation. I admit, I might have read too much into certain things to form that scenario, but I thought it could have been a real possibility. I had been thinking you were the survivor, so that made me think Libk could be the Town Asshole. I guess my only other defense there would be to urge you to go back and read my posts that day, just before the end of day. Maybe you'll be able to see why I thought that scenario was possible.

I would also like to point out that I was saying that Deku asking Pendio after Pendio had just died might not have been a mistake after all. I could have easily agreed that it was a mistake if I were scum, but I went back and found a previous post of Deku's that made me think it could have been intentional.

I'm back. All of yesterday and today I've had to move furniture (I'm moving to a new appartment these days), so I'm a little bit late here.

I never ruled out that Deku could have been scum, BUT, I honestly honestly honestly believed Libk was scum. I feel a tad embarrassed there. I expected a misplaced bandwagon on me this morning, and I felt very unmotivated to keep defending me.

Having said that, I'm not going to move heaven and earth to stay alive today. I already feel stupid enough over that last lynch.
But I did decide to come back to post today. Jamie survived the night. After Deku's flip and the eclipse I did not even think that would happen.
The only way Dekunut died is because you are the Town Asshole, Jamie. But that is good. There is no role left to counter that. And the question is whether the mafia is willing to risk hitting you again. Even if you don't hide behind the mafia member, a random townie will be killed (and probably one who has been seen as very suspicious, limiting the amount of persons the actual mafia could be). It will be better to kill that random townie by choice than by risking to kill themselves.
With 5 alive, we'll have 2 days left, instead of 1. And the final day (if we don't kill mafia today) will be a fight between 3 people, what probably isn't favourable for the mafia. The other reason I came back to play is because it actually isn't 100% clear WHO the real mafia player is.... I'm not dead yet so I will not give up. Not until I'm killed. Lynched or nightkilled. And even in that case I can still contribute to catching the real mafia member.


I'm not sure I would've changed my vote, I was quite focussed on Libk. But due to my European timezone, I missed that anyway.


True. I was. I was focussed 100% on Libk. But the only thing I can say in my defense is that I'm not utterly stupid. If I was mafia I would've also known from the start that Libk is town. Being so focussed on him, it would have been super obvious that in the case he'd die everyone would think I am suspicious. I could have also tried to be on good terms with him. Heck, I made enemies with Libk and Bok. I even motivated you to make that bet to vote against Libk. I'm NOT in a good position, but all of that could have been prevented, had I cared about that.


I'm not sold on Bok being town. But Jamie did convince me to see it in a different light, I don't see him as completely scum either. To be honest, when Libk flipped town, I threw most of my reads away. I don't know. He "could" be scum. But Jamie, who is confirmed town, is really convinced this is his normal playstyle. What gutfeeling to trust?

And about me not voting for Storm. Firstly, I have a personal mafia policy to not vote for Storm on day 1. He is almost always the first to be accused, and as you can see in all of my games, I almost never join in to vote for him. Not because he isn't suspicious, oh yes he is! But he is so goddamn unpredictable, and I dislike to always lynch that townie whose usual behaviour is always scummy. I figured that if he is scum he will flip so much in the upcoming days even the philosopher's stone is not alive.
And if I were mafia, I would start with targeting people in Storm's neighbourhood. He was gonna die anyway, and even if he didn't get so many votes on him on day 1, knowing Storm he is hard to keep alive anyway. So why would I first start with a different neighbourhood, that just means it will be harder and harder to keep him alive. I would start with his neighbourhood. First lynch someone other than him in his neighbourhood, then on day 2 vote for him and throw him under the bus. I might get some town credit because of it and I wiped out the entire neighbourhood (if I would then also have killed the remaining player there of course), so would have lost nothing.



Are you willing to potentially lose the game then?

I think Vergo is town. He is just too honest. He is town, he is not lying.

I really always believed Minish was town. Now I am reconsidering. I promised Bok to analyse all her posts today. I will. Later tonight.
I'm not going to decide between voting for Bok or Minish before finishing that analysis

I can understand a personal policy not to vote for Storm on day 1, because there is a lot of confusion there, however, Tristan replaced Storm and was able to play a little before he was lynched. Sure a lot of the suspicion was due to Storm's posts, but Tristan was also a bit suspicious with his actions, so it wasn't all just Storm. Pendio pointed out that Tristan was encouraging chat within the huts, and while you agreed that we shouldn't do that, you still kept your vote on Libk.

That scenario of starting with a different neighborhood was less about trying to keep Storm alive as long as possible, and more about shifting the focus to what could possibly be the hardest neighborhood to read. You were strongly advocating for use to focus on one neighborhood at a time, so if town followed that and also went with your idea to focus on Libk's hut first, it would have given mafia a much stronger lead.

I feel like it's either you or Ver-go as the last scum, and I'm not really sure why Ver-go got a sudden town read even though there's not much to go off of yet. I do like that you've been playing really aggressively and making a lot of posts with lots of thoughts/evidence behind them. However, since there's not a lot to go off of for Ver-go and I'm reading Bok as town, I do feel like you could be scum.

 

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

If we're in agreement that Bok seems to be town (which I'm willing to believe after reading some of his posts and knowing about his experience), then the best course of action seems to be to lynch kokirion today, and if the game is still going tomorrow, the last two players should lynch Minish Link.

It comes down to 1.) If Bok has done a good job of fooling all of us and he probably deserves to win if he's mafia, or 2.) If something bad happens during the night.

I feel like it's either you or Ver-go as the last scum, and I'm not really sure why Ver-go got a sudden town read even though there's not much to go off of yet. I do like that you've been playing really aggressively and making a lot of posts with lots of thoughts/evidence behind them. However, since there's not a lot to go off of for Ver-go and I'm reading Bok as town, I do feel like you could be scum.

I don't think a mafia member would fail to post for an entire game, and I don't think Link in Time would allow for his replacement to not post for an extended period either. I've already apologized for not jumping into the game immediately, I obviously don't have anything else to say in my defense other than if I was mafia, it would be a hollow and worthless victory due to the game not even being fair.

 

[Morbid Minish]

If we're in agreement that Bok seems to be town (which I'm willing to believe after reading some of his posts and knowing about his experience), then the best course of action seems to be to lynch kokirion today, and if the game is still going tomorrow, the last two players should lynch Minish Link.

It comes down to 1.) If Bok has done a good job of fooling all of us and he probably deserves to win if he's mafia, or 2.) If something bad happens during the night.



I don't think a mafia member would fail to post for an entire game, and I don't think Link in Time would allow for his replacement to not post for an extended period either. I've already apologized for not jumping into the game immediately, I obviously don't have anything else to say in my defense other than if I was mafia, it would be a hollow and worthless victory due to the game not even being fair.

I did think that Cslaught would be replaced a little more quickly if he were mafia, but there have been things pointed out that could have been due to inactive scum. I don't fault you for not jumping in immediately. Especially since a lot has happened in the game, and it's hard to try and catch up on all of that. I was just wondering why there was a sudden town read on you without much to go on.

 

[Deleted member 14134]

Going to gather my thoughts now, hoping to have my post up within half an hour.

 

[Storm]

I didn't get to say Bye

Bye

 

[Deleted member 14134]

I don't think ver would use the arguments he did about him being inactive as I feel like it'd be quite cheap to use if he does turn out to be scum. So I'm going to count on him being honest, and maybe that'll lose us the game but I guess that's how Mafia games are won or lost.

With that said, I'm leaning towards Kokirion as scum for a few reasons.

1. Deku's reluctance to answer my questions. When I asked neighbourhood 3 to give their opinion on my neighbourhood Deku was the only one who didn't reply. This makes me think that the player was active at the time. If ver is his scumbud Deku could of easily just said what everyone else said along the lines of "it's hard to get a read on him because he hasn't posted," given his reads on the other players and been relatively safe in saying that (he did say he is has no opinion on ver but left out any opinions on me, koki and minish. This makes me think that he didn't want to say anything about his scumbud as it might of given him away.

2. Kokirions vote against Libk.

Alright.
To discuss the first. It might seem a strange question, but Dekunut and Storm know each other very well, outside the forum even. I have been in a mafia team with them in a far away game, having learned that they know each other in real life. There was time between everyone receiving their roles and the start of the game. If they are teammates I would find it hard to believe that they would never talk about the game. Storm made a vital mistake by opposing to reveal the neighbourhoods. If they were a team, why didn't Deku stop him? Why didn't Deku try to influence Storm in such a way that he would survive day 1? Let's face it. IF Deku has truly made that Pendio-mistake on purpose, then he is a damn good strategist. Wouldn't he then also have been clever enough to notice Storm was heading towards a cliff, and to then have act on that?

How do you know Deku didn't try? There's no way he would of done it in the open and even if he did, it probably would of been too late to stop the bleeding as storm came out rejecting the idea of revealing the hoods quite early.

This was just a mistake, Libk being tired. I believe that.
What I DO find interesting is the eagerness to vote for Jamie when seeing just a tiny tiny crack. All that Libk mistakenly thought was that Jamie said that he talked in his neighbourhood whereas he didn't. My question is whether that would be scummy at all. And if you compare Jamie's town- and scumtells this game, such a tiny tiny scum tell against his doesn't warrant an immediate vote. At most a confrontation with Jamie that what he said was not true.
So why was Libk so eager to vote for Jamie?

Libk saw a blatant lie here (even though he misread it). If it was a lie, he wouldn't of been the only one who saw it as Deku was in the neighbourhood to and would of been able to confirm it. With Libks mindset he knew Jamie was lying (mistakenly) and Deku would of to. I don't think this was exactly eagerness as he was probably thoroughly convinced Jamie was scum at the moment.

If anyone has any questions or about my arguments or wants me to explain anything further I can. I feel like I'm having trouble getting my thoughts out right now. Either way, I'm leaning for Koki as scum and right now it seems like everyone else has at least a slight scum read on him. I'll be here all night to discuss anything but there's about a quarter left in the day and someone needs to get the ball rolling.

Vote Kokirion

 

[Deleted member 14134]

Also regarding the solar eclipse, I think it would be a poor move to use it right after coming into the game when the astronomer wasn't in immediate danger of being lynched and could of used it at a later time. It just feels like it was an attempt to make it look like like ver used it then. Deku wasn't in danger of being lynched at the time it was used (there was one vote for Libk) and Kokirion shortly followed up with another vote on him to increase Dekus chances of survival (this is based on the idea that kokirion is scum). If it looked like Deku might die I can see the eclipse being used as the astronomers hood would then be under investigation and he wouldn't be able benifit from using it if he got lynched that die. It just smells like an attempt to frame Ver. I expected Koki to come out today alittle more aggressive today. I think he knows everyones eyeing him now and could be trying to seem passive so that it doesn't seem like he's defending himself too much so he looks more town than scum. We'll see, I think he's the right choice for today but I want to hear what other people have to say now.