Game Thread MS Paint Mafia U-Pick Edition [Day 5]

[lain]

ok i'm caught up.

what killjoy said idk what to think about. i kind of feel like it might be best to take it with a grain of salt. he must have said it cause he thought it would benefit scum to. i would guess that probably he at least wouldnt have named both scum like that assuming there are two left so probably only one or neither of them are scum. no idea which of those two options though. grain of salt ig.

That said, I doubt Ex is mafia with KJ given that KJ had to have been trying to snipe Ex with the lynch, but couldn't due to the bonus votes.

this makes sense to me.

 

[lain]

i was having a bit of trouble understanding the whole logic behind this survivor thing ex and hhh are talking about, so i'm just going to explain how i was understanding it and if i got anything wrong feel free to correct me.

if i understand it right, ex claimed to hhh in a dm that he was "the thing"'d, and that this came with a survivor win condition. at some point hhh threatened to shoot ex in the dm & ex started talking about it in thread bcs of that? and their discussion is based on the premise that if someone kills ex, "the thing" will move to them so the win condition will too. and that if there's ever only one scum left and they also have this survivor win condition, the game would end and both them and town would win.

so hhh thinks that if what ex claimed is true and he's town, it would be be to his benefit to let scum kill him. i think hhh's reasoning is that if there are two scum left & ex is nightkilled, one of them would get the win condition and then one of them could kill the other tomorrow night and them and town would win. if there's one left, the game would end and them and town would win. so either way town would win.

okay, so... ig there might be issues with this logic but if we're assuming ex would agree with it then maybe either whatever he claimed in the dm isn't true or he isn't town? cause otherwise he wouldn't ask to be protected?

hmm.

if ex is scum and was telling the truth about this, he could have a motivation to ask to be protected ig. since if there's another scum they might want to kill him. or if he was 3p too. i agree with kod though about ex looking town bcs of kj trying to hammer him.

also, ex made this claim in the dm so idk what he actually said exactly. im just going off how him and hhh are arguing here but it is a bit vague.

@ExLight @HangryHangryHippo am i missing/misunderstanding anything w/ this? do both of you agree with this logic?

 

[ExLight]

"the thing" will move to them so the win condition will too.

it goes to a semi-random target

so hhh thinks that if what ex claimed is true and he's town, it would be be to his benefit to let scum kill him.

no, he's saying he's gonna shoot me because he thinks I'm mafia which is absurd considering how killjoy tried to hammer me and gave that whole bunch of nonsense at the end of the day

okay, so... ig there might be issues with this logic but if we're assuming ex would agree with it then maybe either whatever he claimed in the dm isn't true or he isn't town? cause otherwise he wouldn't ask to be protected?

I'M NOT AGREEING WITH GETTING SHOT and his push on me is annoying me
having an alt survivor wincon guarantees I win the game even if town fumbles hard.

While I plan to still work with town, having this as a failsafe puts me in a much less stressful place.

if ex is scum and was telling the truth about this, he could have a motivation to ask to be protected ig. since if there's another scum they might want to kill him. or if he was 3p too. i agree with kod though about ex looking town bcs of kj trying to hammer him.

Why would I bring getting Thinged up if I was scum instead of staying quiet and changing the kill onto a scumbud last second or just staying quiet and outting them at the start of the next Day??

 

[HangryHangryHippo]

it goes to a semi-random target


no, he's saying he's gonna shoot me because he thinks I'm mafia which is absurd considering how killjoy tried to hammer me and gave that whole bunch of nonsense at the end of the day


I'M NOT AGREEING WITH GETTING SHOT and his push on me is annoying me
having an alt survivor wincon guarantees I win the game even if town fumbles hard.

While I plan to still work with town, having this as a failsafe puts me in a much less stressful place.


Why would I bring getting Thinged up if I was scum instead of staying quiet and changing the kill onto a scumbud last second or just staying quiet and outting them at the start of the next Day??

If nobody else targets you it's not random at all.

Absolutely everything KJ did yesterday is a big glass of WIFOM. "KJ tried to hammer me, I can't be scum!" Unless KJ knew you'd be in no danger. "KJ said I was his scum partner while dying so clearly I'm not and he's trying to to trick you!" Unless he's using reverse psychology to push you clear.

Looking at the other side of it you were obsessed with the thing yesterday before you were "infected" last night. You also stayed off of KJ as long as possible despite said trying to snipe you. Now you are literally saying you'll put yourself before town. So why should I believe you ever were town?

Why claim thing? Well for starters it lets you claim whatever you want. Are you a survivor now? There's absolutely no way to know. But you argument is that you definitely are, town shouldn't question it, and town should just leave you alone. Sounds like a great place for the last scum to be if you ask me.

 

[ExLight]

Looking at the other side of it you were obsessed with the thing yesterday before you were "infected" last night. You also stayed off of KJ as long as possible despite said trying to snipe you. Now you are literally saying you'll put yourself before town. So why should I believe you ever were town?

oh yea how dare I be worried about something I knew nothing about

 

[HangryHangryHippo]

You knew then it was a passive part of OG's role that literally cannot be stopped, so why would you worry about it?

 

[ExLight]

You knew then it was a passive part of OG's role that literally cannot be stopped, so why would you worry about it?

I'm sorry but are you even listening to yourself?
OG's role did not provide a lot of information about the Thing itself, to the point it was a major topic on whether or not it was a threat.

If anything, OG's role seemed to imply that The Thing was hostile because of the whole "if only you and the Thing remain you can shoot it" part of his role. So yes, I was worried about it.

Anything we discussed in thread about it was pure speculation. Well, I got Thing'ed, so I am now detailing what it is: it is an extra survivor wincon, a godfather-like modifier, and something that allows me to swap my base role with someone's who dies if responsible for it somehow (hammer or direct kill).

Again, I don't see why I would have any reason to come forward and tell you and other players I got Thing'ed if not to be honest about it. You're pushing a bizarre, unrelated, agenda about me being scumbuds with killjoy when he literally tried to hammer me and using the whole Thing thing as a distraction to how insanely bad your argument is, and it is extremely annoying.

 

[HangryHangryHippo]

1. It wasn't a major topic after OG's flip, but was as part of the discourse on OG himself.

2. It very clearly entailed that if the person that was tagged with it died, it would pass to another. Meaning you literally cannot deal with it. It end games

Every. Single. Time.

That was clearly detailed in OG's flip. And that knowledge is what I'm talking about. You cannot stop it so focusing on it is just distracting from the actual issues at hand, as I said yesterday to you multiple times.

3. Using bonus votes to fake snipe your partner to deep wolf them is hardly the outlandish gambit you're trying to make it out to be. It's tantamount to soft bussing your partner.

4. Mafia shooting you has nothing to do with you being scum buds with KJ. It literally takes everything you said at face value and presents a quick end to the game. The killer becomes the thing, if they have a partner they out them tomorrow, we lynch last threat. GG EZ. Yet despite you asserting you'll definitely work with town you're opting out because it requires risk on your part. But the thing is working with town doesn't mean sitting there at no risk to yourself and winning with town if they happen to win. So at this point you aren't town and aren't working with town and so I owe you nothing but death.

 

[HangryHangryHippo]

So here's a thought. Given the timing and how we know the thing shifts, per your claim you got it from KJ. So at the time KJ sniped you, he was the thing. Tell me again it's super outlandish for KJ to try to snipe his teammates when doing so ends the game quicker under his self alignment win con, especially if he only has one partner.

 

[KingofDominaria]

lol Ex is being cagey af.

 

[KingofDominaria]

I'm invoking the Scarlet Spider Creed.

Kill Ex.

 

[KingofDominaria]

Ok so as it stands, my waifu is right in their approach with Ex.

While it is a fact KillJoy tried to snipe Ex, that doesn't exclusively mean that Ex is clear cut town. I think it is likely he is town, but I could be wrong based solely on KillJoy's action. Then, as HHH already detailed, a lot of what KJ said yesterday is classic WIFOM. Minus any smooth-brained moves, KJ should've known bonus votes don't count towards majority since his own role explicitly said so (though I imagine there is a line of thought where other bonus votes that were not his might count, but that could've been addressed by questions to the mod to get an indication -- and even then putting all your eggs in one basket only for them to crack when trying to snipe Ex is massively risky, but eh).

Suffice it to say, KJ's actions don't concretely indicate Ex's alignment. I'll only agree to a slightly better possibility of Ex being town, but even then that is questionable since KJ could've put on an act when trying to snipe Ex.

Now, wrt to Ex's own actions/words, he's indicated an intense desire to keep the Thing on himself. Numbers makes another solid point in that, as town, Ex can still win even if he's killed. Now I'm going to harken to something we've seen, but haven't touched on: KJ flipping mafia.

KJ was the thing, or so it seems based on what has been discussed, and yet despite being lynched came up as mafia. We have no direct confirmation, one way or another, that he truly was the thing or that it truly exists outside of OG's role implying as such and, now, Ex claiming he has it and detailing what it is (even though his details more or less fall in line with the descriptors from OG's role). As such, there is a possibility that Ex could be maf hiding behind the thing and exclaiming it is no threat (despite OG's role yet again).

Now, I love fear mongering as next as the next mogul, but all we have is Ex's word to go off of and a game state that is still active. If Ex is being honest, then having the passive on him and outing it only for it to become public knowledge paints a target on Ex. If someone else other than Ex is mafia and wants to win via the survivor win con offered by being The Thing, then we have no reason to save Ex as Ex will still win, as town, and the mafia can claim that sweet survivor con to get off a sinking ship. This makes perfect sense.

What doesn't make sense is Ex's vehement desire to win via staying alive which doesn't jive at all with the situation. He, per his own words, knew everything about the Thing due to having it, yet outed it. Then he wants to utilize it as a shield to avoid issue even though it'll help expedite the game via having the mafia end their careers and go survivor. Ex would still win as town despite dying, but that's assuming he's being honest. If he's not being honest, and is truly mafia despite having the thing (assuming he's not lying), then why do we still have an active game state that hasn't just come to an end?

Riddles abound. Execute Ex FOR GREAT JUSTICE!!!!

 

[ExLight]

if 2 remaining mafia and numbers is town and kills me town literally lose since we're we should be at constant LyLo state

also, considering the thing is a survivor what even is your wincon KoD? I'd expect something non-hostile, but if not Survivor I'm confused as to what you've been pushing with your gameplan since you seem to be somewhat uncaring as to how the game is unfolding

 

[HangryHangryHippo]

Ok so as it stands, my waifu is right in their approach with Ex.

While it is a fact KillJoy tried to snipe Ex, that doesn't exclusively mean that Ex is clear cut town. I think it is likely he is town, but I could be wrong based solely on KillJoy's action. Then, as HHH already detailed, a lot of what KJ said yesterday is classic WIFOM. Minus any smooth-brained moves, KJ should've known bonus votes don't count towards majority since his own role explicitly said so (though I imagine there is a line of thought where other bonus votes that were not his might count, but that could've been addressed by questions to the mod to get an indication -- and even then putting all your eggs in one basket only for them to crack when trying to snipe Ex is massively risky, but eh).

Suffice it to say, KJ's actions don't concretely indicate Ex's alignment. I'll only agree to a slightly better possibility of Ex being town, but even then that is questionable since KJ could've put on an act when trying to snipe Ex.

Now, wrt to Ex's own actions/words, he's indicated an intense desire to keep the Thing on himself. Numbers makes another solid point in that, as town, Ex can still win even if he's killed. Now I'm going to harken to something we've seen, but haven't touched on: KJ flipping mafia.

KJ was the thing, or so it seems based on what has been discussed, and yet despite being lynched came up as mafia. We have no direct confirmation, one way or another, that he truly was the thing or that it truly exists outside of OG's role implying as such and, now, Ex claiming he has it and detailing what it is (even though his details more or less fall in line with the descriptors from OG's role). As such, there is a possibility that Ex could be maf hiding behind the thing and exclaiming it is no threat (despite OG's role yet again).

Now, I love fear mongering as next as the next mogul, but all we have is Ex's word to go off of and a game state that is still active. If Ex is being honest, then having the passive on him and outing it only for it to become public knowledge paints a target on Ex. If someone else other than Ex is mafia and wants to win via the survivor win con offered by being The Thing, then we have no reason to save Ex as Ex will still win, as town, and the mafia can claim that sweet survivor con to get off a sinking ship. This makes perfect sense.

What doesn't make sense is Ex's vehement desire to win via staying alive which doesn't jive at all with the situation. He, per his own words, knew everything about the Thing due to having it, yet outed it. Then he wants to utilize it as a shield to avoid issue even though it'll help expedite the game via having the mafia end their careers and go survivor. Ex would still win as town despite dying, but that's assuming he's being honest. If he's not being honest, and is truly mafia despite having the thing (assuming he's not lying), then why do we still have an active game state that hasn't just come to an end?

Riddles abound. Execute Ex FOR GREAT JUSTICE!!!!

After all this time this man still gets me. <3

 

[ExLight]