Mafia 4: Majora's Mask

[Sasuke Uchiha]

But now I examine what happened. Keyshe is being careful, I see that. She didn't vote for Axle but indeed me. I don't really see why she targeted me because I wasn't the only one voting for Axle without stating my reasons very well. Maybe she knows something we don't? If she is mafia then she knows who the townies are so if she voted for me because she knows my role aswell as picking out a reason then that makes her mafia. But I won't assume that just yet. For now.
IGMEOY: Keyshe

IGMEOY: Meego7
It seems like you're suspecting Keyshe because she voted for you and you have some "incredible" power in this round. I could be misreading this but it sounds like you have no real evidence against Keyshe.

The "special pow'r" thing I mentioned was referring to when Meego said that she thought Keyshe was voting for her because off her role. She said that here:

Maybe she knows something we don't? If she is mafia then she knows who the townies are so if she voted for me because she knows my role

Why would a mafia gun after someone because of their role, and not because of the pow'r that comes with it? Roles don't matter, but their abilities in the game, like double posting does. I assumed you meant he may have been mafia because he wanted you and your role out of the mafia's way. Those are my reasons for suspecting Meego. If I missed something in her post that everyone else got, I'm sorry.

 

[SuperSilly]

Meego, I’ll assume this is the quote that refers to me then.

You seem to rush your votes and/or your IGMEOY and FoS's. You quickly changed from being suspicious of me to being suspicious of Sasuke because you found a reliable reason for being suspicious of Sasuke because Jo already said it, I think you had a less stable reason for being suspicious of me...I'm watching you.

Well, firstly I suppose I can see why you’d be suspicious of me, my last post was strange, though I still hold to much of it. (See just after I quote myself for explanation.) Secondly, I haven’t cast any votes yet, and I’ve only had two FoS’s and IGMEOY’s. (Jo and Kybyrian I’ve FoS’d, and you and PA I’ve IGMEOY’d.) Don’t think I’ve shifted my suspicions of you, I never retracted my IGMEOY. Also, IMO, if anything, I’ve not been hasty, but the worst thing I could be thus far. I’ve been too indecicive and wishy-washy. I’m trying to break free of this, however I don’t seem to be very successful in my endevors thus far. Perhaps I’m more successful than I thought if you think I’ve been hasty.

Though, please tell me what makes me seem hasty? Your use of and/or implies that you didn’t read my posts, but I understand that this was probably a quick analysis and mostly from memory.

Also, though I did say that I understand that Sasuke has warranted suspicion, I never FoS’d or IGMEOY’d him. Understanding that people could logically find his posts suspicious doesn’t necessarily mean I suspect him. (Though, for the record, I DO suspect Sasuke to a certain degree. I’m not going to vote/FoS/IGMEOY someone without trying to go back and read first though.) I would need to go back and read at least some of his posts once more before I come to a conclusion regarding that, and I certainly didn’t have time for that during my last post. The main point of my last post (apparently not communicated very well) was that I got a bad vibe from a few of the FoS’s/IGMEOY’s/votes.

Also, I've observed a more reserved bandwagoning effect on Sasuke. (Not to say that he hasn't warranted suspicion, because I think he has.) Notice that the moment someone voted for him, we quickly saw several FoS's, another vote, and an IGMEOY. Nothing definitive of course, especially since we need a majority to lynch and people have been suspicious of Sasuke for a while. Just... Be careful.

I don't want to discourage voting, etc., because that could be disastrous for the town. I also don't want to encourage wishy-washy-ness. I guess I'm just getting a bad vibe about the suddenness of some of it.

That was the main point of my last post. Hence the choice of words: RESERVED bandwagoning effect (ugh, I hate myself for using this, it’s escalated WAY too far. I only meant for it to mean a minor [hence the word reserved] effect, not the full-blown thing. >_<)

I said ‘nothing definitive’ in my post, because I understand that he does seem suspicious. Also, I didn’t just skip the previous accusations over. I did, however, say that I understand that people have been suspicious of him for some time.

(I did not go back to count how many votes/FoS’s/IGMEOY’s had been put on him from days past. It was mainly from memory that I said today’s count, jumping back and scanning a bit to double check if I felt unsure. I couldn’t remember how many there were from other days, so I wasn’t going to read through the whole thread. Once again, I did mention that I knew there were previous suspicions, only I wasn’t sure how many. Since it was New Year’s Eve and I read that I was not posting enough I felt I should post before festivities began. I didn’t have the time to go back and do a full-fledged look through of the thread.)

Afterword I said that I don’t want to discourage voting or encourage wishy-washy-ness (referencing voting for both Sasuke and general voting) because I don’t. (I saw it coming that people would assume I’m protecting him; at this point I’m not.) I want people to vote as they see fit, and be decisive. (Given that their vision isn’t somehow clouded, of course. ) I would have probably FoS’d some of the people I got weird vibes from if it wasn’t for the fact that it really wasn’t enough grounds to FoS them and I didn’t have enough time to analyze them besides “I just got a bad feeling from you”.

Another word I used specifically for specifics: I said some of it gave me a bad vibe to say just that: only some of it gives me a bad vibe. Only some of the votes/FoS’s/IGMEOY’s stuck out to me. Hence the wishy-washy of my post: I felt there was merit in some of these. (Past and present. Hardly any in the past jumpped out at me, so I didn’t remember them upon posting. Whereas more than usual jumped out at me over the course of this day.)

I suppose my next step should be to analyze Sasuke after HoM. Unless I have good reason not to, I’ll try to look at Sasuke next so that I can find more stable ground.

I wasn't specifically referring to my posts. To me it seemed rather obvious why I would have the suspicions I did... but I guess not.

No, I can see your point of view, but I was really wondering why you supported that view over other possibilities. I’ll assume that to each his own? My FoS will weaken somewhat, but will remain until I have a better reason than to each his own, because I’m still uneasy about you.

***

Now, for anyone who still cares to listen to me & my crazy ramblings, I’ve looked over HoM’s posts. I've only included things which struck me as very suspicious or things which I had some comment about. I originally intended to include all of HoM's posts, but that was too time consuming and it also seemed pointless.

*Joins the congregation of members to discuss what will happen*

So who's going to put the first vote down? There are so many non responsive people out there right now... I don't know who I should vote for!

*panics*

I imagine that the Masons would be the carpenters.

I understand that. I just wanted to get a more active discussion about the game and current players, not about the MM characters that apply to each role. But I got my eye on Axle, Bayside, and Keyshe. All acting suspicious...

@linksbro321: Exactly. Plus... Bayside is acting weird.. Very aggressive. And Keyshe went and accused me of trying to get a conversation going. And Axle is accusing others (ish) too.

Now, these are some of his first few posts. All rather strange, but I'm going to forgive them because of the following:

It's my first game on the forums, but I've played and moderated many games of mafia (or similar) in party groups, so I know the game well. One of my earlier strategies to get people to talk about the game is to accuse people. Then they all say "It can't be him!" or "well... maybe..." or similar. I keep my own assumptions to myself and vote when its time.

And I'm sorry that the first post wasn't that clear. That quote about the roles being unimportant and necessary was meant to mean that it would be fun to imagine which the MM characters fit into each role, but it should be done at some other time. And I wanted discussion about each player's roles. I'm sorry for not being clear. Also, I'm not entirely used to the "week long day periods" so I was trying to push for discussion as if the day period only lasted a few minutes.

Here, he explains himself, and I, for the most part, accept this explanation for his mistakes in his previous posts.


However I take slight issue with the second paragraph here. He says he wanted discussion about each player’s roles. This early in the game, I don’t see much town benefit from discussing roles other than anti-town roles. This would apply to party mafia as well, since you wouldn’t want to talk about the doctor, etc. during the day unless there was some benefit to putting townie power roles in danger.

I was one that thought that Kybyrian actually meant something in that post. But you know, we're told not to trust anyone... Maybe he lied to us about his post. I bet there really is something to that post! *sneaks away and tries to decipher it* Yeah... I got nothing.

I've still got nothing... But I'm thinking that if there is something, those last letters are encoded with some alphabet trick. I've tried most of what I can think of. I've even tried using those letters as the first letters in each of the players names to see if its a clue as to who is mafia. But it doesn't work that way.

He joins in trying to find secret messages, perpetuating the distraction. By this point in the game, it has been made clear to him that distractions don’t help much. Admittedly this seems like a fun distraction to perpetuate, but therein lies the danger of perpetuating it. He wasn’t the only one guilty of perpetuating it either. Kybyrian, TheGreen, Jo, PA, Zelda’s_Child, Cucco Power (Now Hazel), and Epwna (now Watchyour6)… All had some hand in it. Zelda’s_Child was nightkilled day 1 and is confirmed mafia. I doubt we have that many mafia left, so obviously not all the people who partook in this distraction can be guilty. As far as HoM’s involvement, he had previously said:

Alright. Well, I'll just sit around and see what unfolds since it doesn't seem like anyone likes my tactics.

And said nothing again till the secret message thing came along. I’m not 100% sure, but I’d say that he could have been board, and waiting for a chance to redeem himself/do something. On the other hand, it HAD already been explained that distractions don’t help much. Could be he thought it wasn't a distraction, I suppose...

If its important, it will come up later. But I'm keeping this on the back burner.

IGMEOY: Kybyrian

No explanation for the suspicion given here.

That was a kind of a dumb question... It doesn't have anything to do with the game... It multiple mafias is plural. But if you're talking about the members in the game, you can just say these guys are mafia.

And I know that It might not be important. (referring to Kybyrian) I just want to make sure that if it comes up, I'll remember my thoughts about it.

Explanation for no explanation for the previous suspicion given here. I suspect it’s because Kybyrian posted the first ‘secret message’. I can understand why he might be suspicious of Kybyrian here.

Well... Things are getting a little more interesting. We are finally discussing others posts and how suspicious they are. I personally agree with everyone against linksbro321. He's making newbie mistakes, yet he claims that he has played many times before, knows the game, and has even modded games. I don't know what he's trying to pull, but he appears to be a threat.

Vote: linksbro321

Here you say that playing the game before puts you on a higher level of play, (which it should) yet you yourself used this excuse for your own mistakes before. You may have had a point, but it was a bit of a hypocritical one. I think I remember Linksbro saying that his previous games were party games at some point. (I looked around, but couldn't quite find it though. I thought I'd found it before?) I’ll assume that you assumed what everyone else assumed when you made your early mistakes. That you assumed that Linksbro was referring to having played forum mafia before.

@the conversation between Sasuke Uchiha and green goron:

How did that have to do with the issue at hand? We've been spending a great deal of time debating the issue of Bay and Axle. Plus, the number of mafia is not dependent on the number of bosses in the game. The names given to each of the roles was just for fun and to make the game much more interesting. We were told in the sign up thread that there would be several mafia in the game. I think that the actual amount was supposed to be 6 or 7. But I might be wrong. Anyway, there were 23 people at the start of the game, so only 4 mafia would lead to a complete townie dominated game.

Now, this post makes me suspicious. Why? Not only did the conversation in question seem pretty much over already by the time HoM posted, but it actually wasn’t pointless. Just because people were discussing Axle and Jo doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t talk about anything else. (Though I do understand concerns of undermining what you may have seen as a more important convo, or distracting from the game. But as I said, the Sasuke/Green Goron convo was pretty much over.) Not to mention the fact that you semi-continue part of that convo: the part about how many mafia are left.

Your post was almost as irrelevant to the Axle and Jo argument as Sasuke’s and Green Goron’s.

Woah! Axle is one vote from a lynch! I agree with Charge. While there is some logic behind these opinions, it seems kinda random and unorganized. I mean, yeah, Axle shouldn't be open for killing the disruptive townies. We need proof that they are scum before we can safely lynch them. I'm not going to vote until I know, or at least am very positive that he is scum.

I would say that saying Axle shouldn’t be for killing disruptive townies is inconsistent. Not good. However, I'm not sure if killing distuptive townies is why you voted for Linksbro, actually. You might have been targeting an easy target, or you might have honestly been very convinced that Linksbro was scum.

I did not jump on that bandwagon. I didn't even FOS him. I just said that I needed more proof before I could make any big decisions on voting for him. And i didn't jump on the Bay band wagon that Axle was trying to start because he thought that she was being disruptive. Yes I realize that in the first day I wanted to lynch linksbro because he was being disruptive. But I actually thought that linksbro was scum. I didn't know, and still don't know, if Bay is scum or not. So I didn't agree with Axle there.

Also, I haven't jumped on the Sasuke bandwagon in this day. That bandwagon was far too suspicious for me to jump on to. One person made the accusation, and then a bunch more almost instantly jumped right onto it with FOSes, IGMEOYs, and even votes. I had to look into that more.

Yes, I know that some of my posts have been "with the crowd." The easiest explanation for that is that I agreed with "the crowd." I know I didn't add anything new to the opinion, but yet again, I didn't feel like I needed to.

This post is where I must apologize. I’m afraid that HoM’s use of bandwagon was probably caused by the use of it in my post. (I did try to demonstrate how I felt it was a very minor bandwagon effect with the use of the word reserved, but that apparently didn’t work.)Personally, I’m not going to hold HoM accountable for the use of the word bandwagon because I feel it’s my fault.


There are a few other things in this post though:
I think that your supposed thinking about speaking against Axle’s lynch and then not doing that shows that you were actually following the crowd more than you think. Peer pressure is a powerful tool, especially in games like this. Follow your own path.


Hmm, I don’t like that you say that you were voting for Linksbro because he was disruptive and then in the very next sentence saying that you were actually doing it because you thought he was mafia. If it wasn’t for the fact that I’m pretty sure you were not voting for Linksbro because he was disruptive then this would make me suspicious.

I’m done my analysis of HoM for now. Overall, I’m actually, suprisingly only half suspicious. Besides this post, I can’t say that anything else strikes me as extremely scummy. However; I’m not sure if the Linksbro thing is because you were targeting him or you really felt very strongly that he was mafia, or that you actually felt that disruptive townies were bad. You keep switching between the last two. As much as I feel like doubting that you voted for Linksbro because you honestly felt he was a mafioso, something makes me feel that it's somehow both more likely than voting for killing disruptive townies and as equally likely as targeting an easy target.

Also, Having gone back and looked over, I've formed new suspicions to ponder, and I feel that even if I do come to a stronger conclusion on HoM, there would be others who seem to have much better evidence against them. I'm going try to look over things again before going any further. (Sasuke, particularly.)

FoS: Hero of Music


[/endofmywaytoolongpost] *sigh* There goes my afternoon.

 

[Sasuke Uchiha]

Ok, this is a first. Seven hours and no one's posted.
>_> >_>

 

[Baysiderulez]

For someone who has quite a few votes against him, thats an odd way to defend yourself....

 

[Meego]

The "special pow'r" thing I mentioned was referring to when Meego said that she thought Keyshe was voting for her because off her role.

Why would a mafia gun after someone because of their role, and not because of the pow'r that comes with it? Roles don't matter, but their abilities in the game, like double posting does. I assumed you meant he may have been mafia because he wanted you and your role out of the mafia's way. Those are my reasons for suspecting Meego. If I missed something in her post that everyone else got, I'm sorry.

Sasuke...have you ever played mafia before? If Keyshe is mafia then she knows who the townies are but I am pretty sure she doesn't know which townies have special powers. So, I only suggested that she might be voting for the townies if she is mafia because she knows the identities of the townies.

@ Supersilly...I was only suspicious of you because you were indecicive and wishy-washy like you said, your last posts just seemed scummy.

EBWODP Sasuke doesn't really make much sense. He is playing like he isn't sure of the full rules and that the mafia knows who the townies are but not the roles...I think? And also, if I apparently have a power then doesn't that still make me a townie? I just don't understand, Sasuke, what you are trying to get at.

 

[Ninten*]

Why would a mafia gun after someone because of their role, and not because of the pow'r that comes with it? Roles don't matter, but their abilities in the game, like double posting does. I assumed you meant he may have been mafia because he wanted you and your role out of the mafia's way. Those are my reasons for suspecting Meego. If I missed something in her post that everyone else got, I'm sorry.

Sasuke, this post is making you a little suspisious. If Keyshe is a Mafia, then she knows all of the other Mafias. By proccess of elimination, the Mafia would figure out who the Townies are. So the Mafia won't know which townies have special roles. They won't know who's the cop,vigillante,serial killer etc. Make sure you understand the rules.

 

[Keyshe]

Sorry that I've been away for the New Years Holidays, I'll be going for making up for my absence. I hope every one had a great New Years, nice to see you again Viral.

I've had a bit to read up on and think about. Also Meego I am still waiting on you to say just what you find suspicious of me on. I've been waiting for you to get back to this post. Care to also say what you call being careful?

Alright. If you guys think that something is up with me and that I have something to hide, go a head and think that. Its your opinion and I guess I don't have much say in what you think about me in the game.

But let me say this, if you're so concerned about me being Mafia, why don't you just vote for me? I've seen a few FOSes on me and quite a lot of suspicion that is placed on me. Why not just make the call and kill me now?

If you're so worried about what I've said and how confusing it can be, why don't I try to shed a little light on the situation. In my mind, I read a lot of suspicion on Sasuke from day 1 and I cataloged it away as "bandwagoning." My definition of bandwagoning must be different from yours. I see it as a large group of suspicion for the same, or similar reasons. Votes, FOSes, and IGMEOYs are mostly just different levels of accusation in my mind and those different levels of accusation appear to be a form of bandwagoning. That is what I mean by bandwagons on Axle and others. Yes, I said the wrong word. I was tired when I tried to defend myself and the wrong word came out. I should have said something different, but I didn't think of it then.

So, its completely up to you. You can be suspicious of my activity and vote me out, or you can wait and see if I get better at the game and provide insight and analysis that could help the town. I might have something to hide, or I don't. Its up to you to see the truth and its up to you to decide my fate.

That sounds very much like an "All or Nothing?" ultimatum. That's just not a productive idea or play style. Just because I or anyone else has a suspicion doesn't mean it's productive to act on our first impulse. And it doesn't mean we should drop it either, but bear it in mind and see where it goes OR take it further and investigate in detail to try and get a grasp of what the true intentions/motives are. That is the whole point of this game for townies. If everyone responded to suspicion like you have, then we'd have a lot of dead newbies and only the most intimidating members would be left. You've basically advocateed a stop to discussion, whether, you intend to or not. An FoS is a suspicion, yes, but is also your chance to learn and get better. Also your chance to save yourself, by giving a legitimate explanation and defense instead of... well... this.

I really see your post as a bluff of sorts. You are challenging us to follow through immediately or to leave you alone entirely, neither of which is an intelligent decision. Previously you worked very hard to dodge away from suspicions placed on you (like the first time I called you out, back then it was only an IGMEOY), so I'm pretty sure your actions here are not out of disregard/apathy for your fate, but, confidence in that no one would have the guts to call your bluff.

Waiting to see "if you get better at the game" is also not necessarily healthy for the town as you must realize we can't just trust you. "Getting better", in the hands of a Townie, means learning to play better. In the hands of a Mafia, it's learning how to lay low and deceive. (And that very much happened in Mafia 1 for I and the other townies, with Zack. Meego you remember don't you? He almost won the game for the mafia... It came down to you, PJ, Vergo or Zack.)

So, you guys want to analyze my past posts? Well, I'll warn you now. There isn't really much there. I haven't come out with any superior analyses like the rest of you guys because I didn't really feel compelled to. But now that there's talk going on about me, I guess I better try to explain myself.

So... you've refused to actually theorize and contribute to the search for Mafia?

Yes, I have been "laying low." But that's just how I've been playing. I recall making a post toward the beginning of the game saying that I would be staying low. Also, I haven't been completely with the crowd the entire game. I recall only following Axle's push for linksbro's lynch. I thought that there was a legitimate reason to feel uneasy about him. He was very distracting, and even took up a whole day of discussion due to his mistakes. I thought that there was a very high chance that he was mafia.

...
These are a basic Mafia tactics. One of the main things any Mafia will do besides from trying hard to act LIKE a Town is to avoid being noticed BY the Town. They will also not theorize and instead follow other people's votes. Have any of you seen him come up with any theorize/suspicions that haven't been done by someone else first?


On a side note, I do get what you're saying about bandwagoning. Bandwagoning really just means an "idea or action that is popular". It's just that the word carries the "angry mob" feel that isn't thinking clearly OR is being led. That's not how you define it, but, you should keep in mind that it generally gives people that idea. It's become a bit of a dirty word..., even though as Axle pointed out, some sort of bandwagoning has to take place to get a lynch.

 

[Meego]

I've had a bit to read up on and think about. Also Meego I am still waiting on you to say just what you find suspicious of me on. I've been waiting for you to get back to this post. Care to also say what you call being careful?

Oh, yeah, sorry, Keyshe! Okay, so my suspicions of you. Right, well for starters when I saw some of your first posts you were pretty devious and I was observing you. I didn't think much of it until you then picked out me as suspicious. I was kind of failing at my vote for Axle, but I had this theory which I actually didn't post despite remembering posting it...:/ But it was that one of Bay or Axle was mafia, otherwise there wouldn't be that war going on and I thought Bay was innocent so I thought Axle was mafia and voting for her for that reason. I then realised after you pointed it out that they could easily be oth townies. But everyone was voting for Axle too and you only picked me out, I was wondering why just me because others did vote for him (sorry if I am pushing it, but it is true) without much reasoning. So, then I got a vote from you...the only reason (pretty much) being because of my vote for Axle. Can I ask if there is any other reason you are suspicious of me?

 

[Sasuke Uchiha]

Sasuke...have you ever played mafia before?

No, I have never even heard of it prior to Zelda Dungeon. I honestly thought the mafia knew everyone's roles.
Now for the four who are hounding me about this post, think. If I were a mafia, I would have known that mafia don't know other roles, because I wouldn't have known other roles. Now why would I make such a blatant mistake over something I already knew, that cost me so much suspicion? No matter how much of a newbie I might be, I never would have made that mistake as a mafia. Please, I'd like one more chance, before I get lynched, to verify that I'm not mafia. I just read the rules, for the first time and definitely will not be making mistakes like I have in the future.

 

[Meego]

No, I have never even heard of it prior to Zelda Dungeon. I honestly thought the mafia knew everyone's roles.
Now for the four who are hounding me about this post, think. If I were a mafia, I would have known that mafia don't know other roles, because I wouldn't have known other roles. Now why would I make such a blatant mistake over something I already knew, that cost me so much suspicion? No matter how much of a newbie I might be, I never would have made that mistake as a mafia. Please, I'd like one more chance, before I get lynched, to verify that I'm not mafia. I just read the rules, for the first time and definitely will not be making mistakes like I have in the future.

Sasuke...not offence but you could easily be bluffing here, typical mafia tactic. And everyone's already layed down their suspicions on you. You are either mafia or possibly a complete newbie with no idea how this game works, but I seriously think you are mafia so I am not withdrawing my vote.

 

[Kirino]

No, I have never even heard of it prior to Zelda Dungeon. I honestly thought the mafia knew everyone's roles.
Now for the four who are hounding me about this post, think. If I were a mafia, I would have known that mafia don't know other roles, because I wouldn't have known other roles. Now why would I make such a blatant mistake over something I already knew, that cost me so much suspicion? No matter how much of a newbie I might be, I never would have made that mistake as a mafia.

You could have just used that as an excuse so people wouldn't be suspicious. I don't think a newbie would be that smart but I'm watching you.

and definitely will not be making mistakes like I have in the future.

I think you mean past there.

 

[Baysiderulez]

Either that or he's covering himself for future mistakes...

 

[Kirino]

EBWODP: Also, just making an excuse for that doesn't get you in the clear. You still have alot of other suspiciouns to answer.

 

[Ninten*]

That only clears up one little thing that makes you suspisious. What about all of the other times? Besides, this is a tactic used by the Mafia to make themselves look innocent. So I'm not convinced of your story. So I won't withdraw my vote.

 

[Sasuke Uchiha]

EBWODP: Also, just making an excuse for that doesn't get you in the clear. You still have alot of other suspiciouns to answer.

What other suspicion are you talking about? All I remember is Bay, Illmatic and TheGreen supsecting me in the past.