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General Zelda Is Zelda Sexist?

Is The Legend of Zelda Series Sexist Against Women?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No

    Votes: 1 100.0%
  • Unsure

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    1

ihateghirahim

The Fierce Deity
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Location
Inside the Moon
Alright, this has been discussed many times before, but i recall no specific thread that asks the question. Does, as some would allege, our beloved series set women back? Is Link saving a helpless objectified maiden? Or is that simply nonsense that ruins the fun of a classic and innocent adventure? What do you think?
 
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Nonsense.

Look objectification is an issue, but it's one that's treated pretty unrealistically by a lot of people crying out about it. Even in extreme cases, where a character is essentially a highly-sexualized piece of meat as far as the game treats them... well that happens to both genders. Definitely not in the same degrees, but it happens to both. The reason it's uneven is because there are still more male gamers, so it's targeted more at males (with sexualized females) than it is at women (with sexualized males). If anything is setting anyone back, then it's the uneven audience. That's just extreme objectification, though, and it barely relates; Zelda never really sexualizes its characters that badly. I just wanted to get it out of the way.

With Zelda it's especially unapplicable. Zelda essentially plays on classic tropes: Hero saves princess from the evil dragon/wizard. Link is the hero, Zelda is the princess, Ganon is the wizard, and the dungeon bosses are the dragon (why else are they always nondescript giant evil monsters guarding treasures?). Even in a world where we have gender equality (whether we do or not I'm not going to argue about here, though you can probably guess my feelings on it; keep your own worldview on that it pleases you), there are still going to be stories with a helpless female character. Sometimes people are helpless. Male and female. In Zelda's case it plays on a classic trope (based, realistically, on a period where women weren't able to protect themselves pretty much by law I might add) and that trope happens to involve a princess who needs saving. How is this offensive and how does this set anyone back? Contrast with Metroid where it's all about a woman who is the only one who can defeat an entire galactic army of criminals and apocalyptic mutagenic threats. Both can exist. They do not cancel each other out.

And even IF I were to say it's sexist for Zelda to be useless and need saving... SHE ISN'T. When was the last Zelda game where Zelda needed rescuing and was nothing but an object you had to "acquire"? Zelda II? A Link to the Past and every game since has always featured her as an important player in events, making decisions, often leading Link, and having necessary powers. Hell in Ocarina of Time she's a ninja who can hold her own and in The Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, and Spirit Tracks, she blatantly fights alongside you. She is hardly a weak character, and its usually only her strength that makes her a target by Zelda's villains. Not that she needs to be strong to be valid in any day and age.

Everything I've said applies to any other female character in the series as well.
 

Justac00lguy

BooBoo
Joined
Jul 1, 2012
Gender
Shewhale
I'll just keep it simple: No, the series is not sexist.

The usual story arc you see is simply a stereotypical plot line that has been used countless times. As Axle mentioned; It's the simple scenario of the hero saving the princess from evil - it's a simple idea that is twisted to create more complicated plot lines. I'm not saying Zelda is a series that makes usage of complicated plots, but it makes usage of that simple formula while putting their own unique twist on it.

So, I would definitely say no, it's a reoccurring plot lines that fits the series, it's become a tradition so to say. I guess some could say it's becoming less apparent, with some releases focusing on other aspects, but Skyward Sword definitely showcased that it's still very much a present theme.
 
Joined
Aug 25, 2012
Location
Indiana, USA
Short answer...nah. Zelda's pretty open.

Deep answer, every game has at least tiny pockets of sexism here and there. The classic trope of hero-rescues-damsel could be considered somewhat sexist since it seems to assume the woman can't or won't actually defend herself. And yeah, in the games, I'd like to see Zelda be a bit more in the story and maybe not be kidnapped so readily sometimes, but even then, those two things are diminishing in the series. Tetra and SS Zelda were shown participating in the story pretty regularly and actually possessing a good bit of power (or knowledge, which I'm told is power). And if you want to get technical, we have the Gerudo, who pretty much prove women in Zelda can still serve our butts to us on a platter.

The only real way I can see to combat what little "sexism" there is in Zelda is to just up the ante in the story so it's not quite as black and white, but that's a separate issue. In the long run, no, the series isn't sexist.
 

Ventus

Mad haters lmao
Joined
May 26, 2010
Location
Akkala
Gender
Hylian Champion
Yes the series is sexist. Even the fans of the series display sexist tendencies, such as denying a role reversal for Link/Zelda.
 

Sydney

The Good Samaritan
Joined
Mar 20, 2012
Location
Canberra, Australia
Sometimes I believe the fans get a little carried away with over-analyzing every aspect of the series. In my own personal belief, never have I ever found the series to be sexist in any manner. I can understand the point of view in terms of the "damsel in distress" stereotype, but is she always in distress? In Ocarina of Time, she fights back and supports the hero no matter the costs. Granted she gets captured towards the end, she still helps the hero defeat Ganon and summons the Six Sages to help seal him away. In Spirit Tracks, though without a mortal body, Zelda uses her spirit form to possess the body of various forms of Phantoms and accompanies Link on his quest. Hell, in Majora's Mask, she wasn't even the damsel in distress! She was barely in the game at all, and only appeared in a flashback that helped Link save the world from being pulverized by the moon.

To say the series is sexist because Zelda is literally the very incarnation of a "damsel in distress" is a blatant lie. Also, ihateghirahim, could please provide an example where someone has said that the series has "set women back"? I've never heard this complaint before, and it seems completely ridiculous that people would even think of this. Fans blow far too many things out of proportion, and it's very disappointing to see and hear this come from people who supposedly appreciate the series.
 

Vanessa28

Angel of Darkness
Staff member
ZD Legend
Administrator
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Jan 31, 2010
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Yahtzee, Supernatural
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Angel of Darkness
Nah I don't think it does and I never saw it that way either. The game is just about Link who has to save Zelda and restore the piece. Looking at OoT I definitely don't think Zelda was set back as she helped Link a lot of times dressed as Sheik. She was a very important factor in his victory. Hate her or like her but Midna was pretty much a fighter in TP. Impa in SS is also a fighter and she -like Zelda in OoT but on a less bigger scale- guides Link in succeeding. I don't think women are set back at all. Ruto and Saria help Link in OoT and wake up as the sages, Medli also helps Link on his quest. She gives him the Grappling Hook. I think most women in the Zelda games are more helping Link than being set back.
 

Sir Quaffler

May we meet again
I put down "Unsure", but actually I see cases for and against sexism in the series.

Why is Link always male? Because he's the HERO of the games, not the HEROINE. Link is his own character, and rather than thinking anything sexist he's remained male because that's part of his identity. So, no sexism there.

And the vast majority of the remaining cast is made independent of what may be considered "sexist" or not. There aren't really any machismo moments where dudebros dudebro throughout the game, nor are there any "You go, girl!" moments where the woman in question takes on a Feminazi role. They simply appear to be characters created simply because they help to establish a diverse world, with no real agenda in mind.

Zelda herself, though, is a bit trickier. As well as many of the other main female leads. Sometimes it's because we don't really get to see a whole lot of them throughout the game, but it's kinda hard not to notice any "get the girl as your trophy" moments when I don't even really know who they are in that game.

I never really cared all that much for Ilia in TP because all you see before she gets captured is her going off on you for hurting the horse and storming off. It didn't matter to me what happened after that, she was always just "some girl I know from my village who I have to rescue." And it didn't help that the game itself COMPLETELY FORGETS ABOUT HER after a certain point, only throwing in that "get her memory back" moment near the end to try and rope in some emotional ties. I was all like "Oh, that's kinda nice, now she's not an amnesiac anymore... oh well time to get back to caring about Midna!" Same goes for Zelda, I only saw little snippets, and what I did see didn't really leave me with an impression that she was anything more than a princess just doing her job.

AoL's Zelda is the most obvious example of a sexist role. She's literally just a prize that particular Link is working to achieve.

Some Zelda's, they act more as independent government leaders that you work with to take down the villains. And that works for me. Shows that they can act independently of the hero. Other Zelda's, they're simply taken out of the equation too soon by getting kidnapped or something. I don't mind them either, because they didn't really affect the plot for me.

And then the most anti-sexist examples: those that take an active role in the story as well as getting more personally involved in Link's life. I'm talking mostly about Tetra, Midna, ST's and SS's Zeldas, and Marin to an extent. These gals are awesome, and we need more like them in the series.
 

Dragoncat

Twilit wildcat: Aerofelis
Voted unsure.

The games before OoT, with the exception of LA, had Zeldas that were the stereotypical damsel in distress. In the original, she was kidnapped by Ganon, in AoL, she was under a sleeping spell, in LttP, she didn't do anything after she was rescued but sit in the sanctuary, and there were other girls that needed rescued.

OoT Zelda could take care of herself, even if she had to disguise herself to do it. She wasn't actually captured until the end of the game. Tetra is an awesome butt kicking pirate, TP Zelda is a queen with a lot of clout in Hyrule's government, ST Zelda did what she could to help out.

SS, I think if Zelda had a weapon she would be able to hold her own on the surface, she was in the knight academy so it makes sense that she wouldve had some combat training. The academy itself...had so much testosterone in it that it was dripping down the walls lol. Six male students, only two females, and one bathroom for all of them wtf? Poor Zelda and Karane. But if Karane wasn't there, I would say yes, sexism.

So I think the older games are more sexist than the newer ones.
 

Salem

SICK
Joined
May 18, 2013
The games before OoT, with the exception of LA, had Zeldas that were the stereotypical damsel in distress. In the original, she was kidnapped by Ganon, in AoL, she was under a sleeping spell, in LttP, she didn't do anything after she was rescued but sit in the sanctuary, and there were other girls that needed rescued.

So I think the older games are more sexist than the newer ones.
Come on, that's not entirely true(except for alttp:P).

She ALWAYS did something, she was never JUST a damsel in distress, just because it's you only know about in the game's backstory and manual, does't mean it doesn't count. Again, with the exception of alttp Zelda.
 

Shadsie

Sage of Tales
I picked "Unsure."

Honestly, I'd say "A little," but that most stories that get published (whether they are videogames, movies, television shows or books) are or can be construed as a little bit sexist.

Think about it for a minute. Really think about your favorite games, shows, books and some of the common tropes done with females and males (and those in between, in rarer cases). I've been going over old episodes of a onetime favorite show of mine, "The X-Files" and reading a cute fancomic "cartoon recap" someone did of the series. I laughed at their joke "SCULLY IN PERIL!" on one panel and the jokes made toward the "Scully in peril" episodes. Now, "The X-Files" was a show noted for having a STRONG female co-protagonist. Scully shoots things. She's killed people in the series. She is a competent, science-minded FBI agent who was written, specifically, to flout certain stereotypes about women (she's logical rather than emotional, is the sane-anchor to her highly intuitive male partner), and yet... she's a damsel in distress about every other episode. (Sure, she's saved Mulder a few times, but the sheer number of "Scully in peril!" episodes is the stuff of fandom jokes.

Or, you know... I haven't played much of "Metroid," but I've read the complaints people have of what happened to her character in "The Other M."

Bada$s women who get weepy or imperiled on a regular basis...

Then, there's the other side of it. I found myself reluctantly kinda-sorta agreeing with a (male) book-reviewer on a blog once when it came to female protagonists in Young Adult literature. I prefer Meg Murray from "A Wrinkle in Time" and how real and awkward she was, yet able to save her family through peaceful means to what the guy called the "Katniss Syndrome" of modern YA literature. That is, he was criticising Katniss Everdeen of "The Hunger Games." I defended Katniss a great deal when I posted a reply to this blog, because I thought the reviewer was being a bit unfair, but I actually agreed with some of what he was getting at: the female characters who are made uber-bada$s to "make up" for the "damsel syndrome" that is traditional, and to try to attract the attention of young male readers so as not to confine the fanbase to "girl lit."

So, really, you're either damned if you do or damned if you don't. Damels are sexist, but most people see uber-overcompensating bada$sery as over the top and not real and "sexist" in a different way.

The world is still ruled by men, too. I mean... there is a reason why Rowling wrote "Harry Potter" and not "Harriet Potter," and why the team behind "Avatar: The Last Airbender" had some reservations when creating "The Legend of Korra." (Hopefully, the *surprising* widespread love of a female protagonist who tends to self-rescue will teach the entertainment industry something).

I myself, have run into this in regards to the writing/publishig industry. I keep my pen-name to initials (not just because I think it looks classy) but because I was unfortunate enough to be given a very "feminine" first name by my parents. (My name is actually unisex and there are some famous men who've had it, but it is mostly a female-name in our current culture). I don't want publishers and agents to know I'm a woman right off the bat (because some will still reject you over that crap). I once got a rejection letter for a novel I wrote about a protagonist who saved a magical land, wielded a sword and led armies - because, and I quote "We are looking for a heroic protagonist." The main character of that tale was a woman. My fiancee' tells me that "heroic" is literary-agent code for "male." This was only a few years ago. This stuff happens in our world.

So, you know, I'm not surprised that "damsel stories" are still popular. I tend to gloss over them, myself, in the case where the story is good (or in the case of LoZ, the game is just darn fun to play), because I just expect this thing to still happen. Even the "progressive" parts of the entertainment industries are prone to a little sexism by nature just because it's gone on too long. Maybe it will go away when all those who are growing up right now on "Legend of Korra" are running things and all the old guard are retired or dead.

Now, this makes it sound like I'm only complaining about sexism, including the sexism of LoZ's "damsel" stuff. Well, I hit "Unsure" for a reasons.

LoZ suffers from the classic "fairytale" "damsel in distress" stuff in spades, but it's actually made some good strides in a more progressive direction. Zelda is shown to have a lot of magical and spiritual power, and she sometimes takes an alter-ego form in which she goes forth and fights evil herself, rather than relying *solely* on the Chosen Hero. She'll fight from the shadows, or skewer Ganon with missile-sized light arrows, or just spend half a game looting and plundering random ships as a crazy pirate. Then, there is Midna, who seems to be running the entire show in Twilight Princess. I do think she is overly concerned about her looks as an imp, especially when she has so much super-kill-weapon!magic power with her freakin' hair and the fused shadows. The world is ruled by Goddesses and women are consistently shown to have a lot of wisdom and magical power, moreso than the protagonist and many of the male NPCs... then again, that plays to certain "women as sorceresses" stereotypes, too...

Eh. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. The way society is and has been, and with the emergence of the startling idea of it beginning to even *consider* that my gender might deserve rights, pretty much anything and everything anyone does (even if they are a female writer/director/creator) is going to be considered "sexist" in some way.

If you're concerned about formula, read stuff on TV Tropes, put something you're working on through the Betchel Test, if you're not female, talk to women... etc.
 

Mangachick14

Nerdy and Proud
Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Location
Behind My Computer Monitor
While I certainly feel the portrayals of some females could be stronger--especially Zelda, since her name is in the freaking title and she's supposed to be an important character-- I don't really think there's anything that's straight-up offensive. I mean, there's probably just as many useless male characters as female ones. Really, besides Link, nobody--male nor female--really takes initiative, with a few exceptions. We've had a few pretty cool female characters who seem like they could hold their own in a fight; like Impa, Ashei, all the of Gerudo tribe etc. So no, I don't think it's sexist. Women could be represented better, but as is, it's not too bad. To be honest, characters in general could be shown in better light.

Yes the series is sexist. Even the fans of the series display sexist tendencies, such as denying a role reversal for Link/Zelda.

That doesn't necessarily mean people are sexist, it just means they are against changing the main character. If they're saying stuff like "Wah! No! Zelda can't be the hero, she's a girl!" then that's most definitely sexism, but I've never heard that from anyone and it's not the reason I'm against it either. As for the whole idea of gender-bending idea some people have, I reject the idea because it's a big change that just adds unnecessary awkwardness to the story, and nothing to the gameplay. I can't speak for everyone, but for me, it's not the idea of playing as a female that I dislike (In games where you can choose to be male or female, I always choose to be female), it's just the idea of gender-bending I dislike.
 
Joined
Sep 23, 2013
Location
United States
No, I really don't think this series is sexist towards the female characters. They all have really important roles, and as for Zelda herself, she's not a damsel in distress all of the time. She's just like Peach from the Mario series because despite both being distressed damsels, they can still handle themselves pretty well. If Zelda and the rest of the female cast were just characters that just stand around, have flat personalities, don't do much at all, and their only purpose is to be damsels in distress, then that'll be pretty sexist.

Overall, the Zelda series is not sexist at all. There may be some sexist stuff in the games, but you do see that kind of thing in other franchises like Mario and Metroid anyway.
 

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