Ideas, Themes and Elements For Future Zelda Games

[Ariel]

Welcome all. This thread is dedicated to Zelda fans who'd like to experiment with ideas and themes for future Zelda games (despite the fact we hold no authority to implement them). This thread is designed to be a virtual whiteboard for which ideas are brainstormed and developed, although it serves no real practical purpose, it can just be food for thought. So go nuts, throw out some ideas, themes, and elements, and see what sticks.


Here's a list of some raw ideas to refine:

Standard Themes: These are the themes that are fairly developed within the Zelda series, and are some good places to work from when developing new ideas. (Notice that many of them include some sort of dichotomy or anti-thesis)

- The Duality of Light and Darkness (Good and Evil)

- The Nature of Time (OoT, OoX)

- Power/Authority, its effects, its ability to corrupt, etc.

- Virtues: Courage, loyalty, charity, love, righteousness, friendship, a sense of adventure even.

- Nostalgia (Almost every game north of OoT)

Or Some Less Used, and More Abstract Themes: These themes tend to be very "facts of life"-ish, and more abstract than the other themes, however, some have been explored in some Zelda games, but are overshadowed by other themes, and some have just popped out of my head now.

- Law vs. Chaos - the nature of each, as well as their relationship with each other. This has been touched upon in Majora's Mask. Another idea is the ability for chaos to lead to order, in that there is actually order in chaos. For example, Wheeler's Cloud (Wikipediate it). And possibly the idea that there is chaos in order.

- The Duality Of Energy - i.e. positive energy and negative energy, construction vs. destruction.

- Destiny vs. Free Will - Majora's Mask

- Humour vs. Madness - Majora's Mask

- As Axle the Beast has explored: The Perversion Of Nature - see his "Undead" video.

- Suffering and Catharsis - Majora's Mask

- Growth, Coming of Age, Maturation - leaving things behind, but broadening your horizons - OoT, TP

- Religion vs. Science - Faith vs. Reason, Tradition vs. Innovation, you get the message.

- The Sadness/Melancholic Feeling, that comes with knowing things must come to an end, that feeling you get on Sundays, as the weekend draws to a close. Explored in Twilight Princess.


Elements: These are the different types of elements presented in Zelda, you know, the different flavoured areas of the Zelda games, such as Forest, Water, Fire, whatever. They generally shape the different atmospheres in their respective locations and are fairly important in illustrating the themes in these locales as well as, obviously, diversifying the gameplay:

Forest, Water, Fire, Sky, Ground, Light, Shadow, Ice/Snow, Weather, Spirits, Time, Machinery/Technological, Folk, City, Town, Rural, Farm, Ruins/Ancient Civilization, Tribal, Fields/Plains/Grasslands, River/Lake/Ocean, Mountain, Caves, Desert, Coastal, Nautical, Undead, Nature/Life, "Lost" (Woods, Caves), Sleep/Peace, Music, Colour


Have I missed anyhting, or do you have your own original ideas. Discuss.

 

[Michael Heide]

The Kingdom of Hyrule. For generations, the royal family of Hyrule has ruled the land. Over time, they have conquered the lands of the Gorons, the Zora, the Rito and the Anouki. Their land joined the Commonwealth of Hyrule, if you will. That is, until the Bombers, a group of separatists from several different races, started attacks against Castle Hyrule. One of them is a young man named Link. On their biggest mission yet, he (along with three other Bombers) infiltrates the castle, trying to kidnap Princess Zelda, who has a Paris-Hilton-like reputation (unjustified, as we'll later find out). But, much to his surprise, someone (or something) was faster.
And before he knows it, Link is caught in a feud that spans back millennia.

 

[super link]

how about a game befor the royal family when the gorons and zoras ect. are all at war with the hylians caught in the midlle and link has to do a few important missions to unite the land

 

[Majora's Cat]

I actually like the struggle for power and authority idea you've got there. This has yet to be shown in any Zelda game other than Spirit Tracks and I'd like to see more of it implemented into the plot of another Zelda game. Perhaps the antagonist will go mad with power? Who knows?

I'd like to point out that corruption by an overdose of power can actually play very well into a Zelda game's plot and also affect the gameplay. Take a look at Twilight Princess for example. Midna's plight and her acts against the Usurper King Zant greatly affect the gameplay. Your involvement in Midna's struggle also makes her a cooler partner. Let's admit it, having Midna actually have a backstory definitely made her a more believable character.

I would very much like to see a repeat of this. I'm getting sick of the generic "beat the boss, return to Hyrule, then save the princess" pattern that occurs in every Zelda game. A change of pace would be nice (which was confirmed in Skyward Sword ). Instead, the chonology of the gameplay should be based around more realistic goals. Instead of entering a dungeon so you can get a Fused Shadow or whatnot, why not scour the dungeon because a corrupt political leader has ordered you to find and kill an innocent creature in that dungeon? What if the first few bosses were gentle creatures but you were forced to execute them simply because that corrupt political leader ordered you to do so for his/her own selfish reasons? That would make a better game, would it not?

Overall, Zelda games' gameplay need to be based around a more complex story. I hate to say this, but the dungeon-to-field-to-dungeon pattern is getting lame. Zelda should take a page out of other games' books and create a better reasons for you to run through fields and kill bosses.

 

[Ariel]

The Kingdom of Hyrule. For generations, the royal family of Hyrule has ruled the land. Over time, they have conquered the lands of the Gorons, the Zora, the Rito and the Anouki. Their land joined the Commonwealth of Hyrule, if you will. That is, until the Bombers, a group of separatists from several different races, started attacks against Castle Hyrule. One of them is a young man named Link. On their biggest mission yet, he (along with three other Bombers) infiltrates the castle, trying to kidnap Princess Zelda, who has a Paris-Hilton-like reputation (unjustified, as we'll later find out). But, much to his surprise, someone (or something) was faster.
And before he knows it, Link is caught in a feud that spans back millennia.

Ahh, right. So we have a colonial, maybe opressive, Hyrule, Link is from a rebel force, he gets sucked up in the conflict, and then a greater evil, or greater purpose takes him and the conflict by surprise, this would be the plot twist, and then a deeper story of reconciliation and comraderie or something, until Hyrule unites once again.

Ok, then some themes they could explore could be "tradition vs. innovation", the traditinal ways of the Zoras, Gorons, other races as well as how Hyrule's expansion has diminished their culture, globalisation-like. This is vergin on political commentary and dare I say it, maybe even Avatar-esque. But the plot twist sort of mixes it up, I wonder what that faster being may be.

I actually like the struggle for power and authority idea you've got there. This has yet to be shown in any Zelda game other than Spirit Tracks and I'd like to see more of it implemented into the plot of another Zelda game. Perhaps the antagonist will go mad with power? Who knows?

I'd like to point out that corruption by an overdose of power can actually play very well into a Zelda game's plot and also affect the gameplay. Take a look at Twilight Princess for example. Midna's plight and her acts against the Usurper King Zant greatly affect the gameplay. Your involvement in Midna's struggle also makes her a cooler partner. Let's admit it, having Midna actually have a backstory definitely made her a more believable character.

I would very much like to see a repeat of this. I'm getting sick of the generic "beat the boss, return to Hyrule, then save the princess" pattern that occurs in every Zelda game. A change of pace would be nice (which was confirmed in Skyward Sword ). Instead, the chonology of the gameplay should be based around more realistic goals. Instead of entering a dungeon so you can get a Fused Shadow or whatnot, why not scour the dungeon because a corrupt political leader has ordered you to find and kill an innocent creature in that dungeon? What if the first few bosses were gentle creatures but you were forced to execute them simply because that corrupt political leader ordered you to do so for his/her own selfish reasons? That would make a better game, would it not?

Overall, Zelda games' gameplay need to be based around a more complex story. I hate to say this, but the dungeon-to-field-to-dungeon pattern is getting lame. Zelda should take a page out of other games' books and create a better reasons for you to run through fields and kill bosses.

Yes, I would agree. I'm sure whemever a plot device calls for it, there just happens to be a "sacred" or "forbidden" item awaiting Link in the coincidentally nearby dungeon. I like the direction that Twilight Princess took with one of the bosses, in that he (Fyrus) was actually a person corrupted by the Fused Shadow, as well as Blizzetta.

They have to give different motives for going into dungeons, like you said, maybe to slay an innocent beast, at least once. That wouldm bring out a whole new emotion not often seen in Zelda, that being guilt. Different motives for slaying large beasts other than the fact that they are large and menacing or a concoction of the primary antagonist would definitely diversify the story a bit. And to some, would give them a reason to actually enjoy the prospect of another dungeon, because sometimes dungeons grow tedious when you know that you're just getting artifact 2 of 3 of plot device 1. Sort of loses a sense of purpose.

On a side note: how's this for an idea... Interconnected Dungeons!

Normally, dungeons are separate self-contained microcosms of a specific element. And in the previous handhelds, there was the new concept of a master dungeon that you must revisit frequently.

Well, as inspired by Twilight Princess, what if certain dungeons could be interconnected? I was playing through Twilight Princess recently, and I came about a treasure chest in the Goron Mines that was out of reach, and needed the next dungeon's item, the clawshot, to get it. After completing that next dungeon, I came back to the chest, often having very little reason to return to a dungeon, and I discovered it was just a couple of rupees. What a scam. That got me thinking as to possibly having out of reach places within dungeons, that are not possible to be reached during their first playthrough, and in these out-of-reach places are secret rooms, or a network of secret rooms that could connect to other dungeons or at least a dungeon of the corresponding type. That could serve simply to interconnect the different areas of Hyrule and make movement easier as well as give you reason tyo not neglect a dungeon after it's been completed.

 

[Michael Heide]

Ahh, right. So we have a colonial, maybe opressive, Hyrule, Link is from a rebel force, he gets sucked up in the conflict, and then a greater evil, or greater purpose takes him and the conflict by surprise, this would be the plot twist, and then a deeper story of reconciliation and comraderie or something, until Hyrule unites once again.

I'm not sure if Hyrule would indeed unite again in the end. One or two factions might become independent over the course of the story. I'm still playing with the idea of authority vs freedom. Absolute monarchy vs anarchy. Both have their merits. Both have their flaws. Hyrule's king would be painted as a tyrannic despot by the Bombers, but he's not that bad. He might consider himself a benevolent dictator, but he's not that good. Link (and the player) will be presented with evidence for and against both viewpoints, while the truth might be closer to the middle.

Ok, then some themes they could explore could be "tradition vs. innovation", the traditinal ways of the Zoras, Gorons, other races as well as how Hyrule's expansion has diminished their culture, globalisation-like. This is vergin on political commentary and dare I say it, maybe even Avatar-esque. But the plot twist sort of mixes it up, I wonder what that faster being may be.

That faster thing is nothing we know already. Just a Macguffin to get the main plot started. It'll probably turn out to be the first dungeon boss.

Yes, I would agree. I'm sure whemever a plot device calls for it, there just happens to be a "sacred" or "forbidden" item awaiting Link in the coincidentally nearby dungeon.

Which is why I would shake things up by letting Link visit the holy places of the various tribes of Hyrule (all of which have members who have joined the Bombers for various reasons, some of them close friends of Link. Not all of them will survive. In fact, one of them might turn out to be a traitor, who Link will have to slay in another boss battle).

They have to give different motives for going into dungeons, like you said, maybe to slay an innocent beast, at least once. That wouldm bring out a whole new emotion not often seen in Zelda, that being guilt. Different motives for slaying large beasts other than the fact that they are large and menacing or a concoction of the primary antagonist would definitely diversify the story a bit.

Sounds like Shadow of the Colossus.

And to some, would give them a reason to actually enjoy the prospect of another dungeon, because sometimes dungeons grow tedious when you know that you're just getting artifact 2 of 3 of plot device 1. Sort of loses a sense of purpose.

And yet, the dungeons should be connected somehow. Be it Triforce pieces, musical instruments to wake the Wind Fish or whatever.

On a side note: how's this for an idea... Interconnected Dungeons!

Love the idea. Expanding on the Hyrule Civil War idea, there could be hidden passageways created by the Bombers. Or by the rogue Bomber who is a mole for the Big Bad.

 

[Ariel]

Yeah, my mind jumped to shadow of the colossus as well, Would be interesting too, though.

I really like that idea you're developing about monarchy vs. anarchy and the group of rebels. But it would be a bit daring for a Zelda game, due to the fact that almost all instances of Zelda games require Link to be on his own, sometimes with a helper, but never with a whole group in a team dynamic (cept. for TP, but that group was a bit more removed from Link).

 

[Michael Heide]

Then he'd have to get separated from the group. Which would make things interesting, because Link would get to see the other viewpoint.