How many sages were there?

[Zarom]

I think that I heard somewhere that there were 7 of them

True. In OOT, there is seven sages. Rauru, Saria, Darunia, Ruto, Nabooru, Impa and Zelda. Zelda is the seventh sage, as she herself claims.

Now, I think that it's more likely that there are multiples sages. We have the seven sages in OOT, then Kaepora Gaebora (the Owl) which is the reincarnation of an ancient sage. And the two sages in WW. Fado the Wind Sage, is not Saria, because he is a boy and he has blond hair. Laruto could be Ruto, but I don't think that's possible. I think Nintendo wanted to make two new sages, rather than taking old ones. Also, those two are respectively the Wind and the Earth Sage, and not the Forest and Water.

In TP, which is believed to be on the child timeline, the sages were the previous sages before OOT. And Kaepora could be one of them, since he was probably from that era of sages.

I might be missing a few sages that appear in other games, but that's pretty much what I know.

 

[DeletedUser9]

True. In OOT, there is seven sages. Rauru, Saria, Darunia, Ruto, Nabooru, Impa and Zelda. Zelda is the seventh sage, as she herself claims.

Now, I think that it's more likely that there are multiples sages. We have the seven sages in OOT, then Kaepora Gaebora (the Owl) which is reincarnaion of an ancient sages. And the two sages in WW. Fado the Wind Sage, is not Saria, because he is a boy and he has blond hair. Laruto could be Ruto, but I don't think that's possible. I think Nintendo wanted to make two new sages, rather than taking old ones. Also, those two are respectively the Wind and the Earth Sage, and not the Forest and Water.

In TP, which is believed to be on the child timeline, the sages were the previous sages before OOT. And Kaepora could be one of them, since he was probably from that era of sages.

I might be missing a few sages that appear in other games, but that's pretty much what I know.

Ah! You raise a good point. I believe I recall Sheik saying it was Ganondorf who killed the old sages, so according to the timeline split, they probably wouldn't have died in TP's timeline. So it could be the same ones. However, TP might take place too long after OoT for that to be possible. I personally tend to think TP takes place hundreds of years later, so it's hard to say. Either way, it's clear that there are always new sages to succeed old ones, so the existence of the sages in TP still makes sense.

I don't think Kaepora Gaebora could be from that generation, because of the specific language "reincarnation of an ancient sage", implying it was one from quite a long time ago. There's also the fact that Kaepora Gaebora is flying around, fully grown, before Ganondorf became king. I don't see how it could work out.

 

[Master Kokiri 9]

Well I may have a potential answer as to how these sages connect.

First of all I'll just exempt the Hylian sages (Zelda and Rauru) because according to my theory the seven sages were all originally hylian.

Okay so in OoT there are seven sages, two Hylians (Zelda and Rauru), one Goron (Darunia), one Zora (Ruto), one Sheikah (Impa), one Kokiri (Saria), and one Gerudo.

Now I believe it may be possible that the Hylians were the first race of Hyrule because according to most accounts of the Goddesses creating Hyrule and the Hylians they seem to have only created the Hylians. I believe that it may be possible that the Hylians evolved and adapted to different environments of Hyrule. Like for instance a group of Hylian children met the Deku Tree and he began to watch over them in the forest, granting them eternal youth and everlasting peace and safety (at least until OoT), thus crafting the Kokiri way of life. And likewise with the Zoras.

Now however without a guardian deity how would a Hylian adapt into a new race you might ask? Well I believe that the Hylians, when faced with a new environment to adapt to, and no guardian deity it may be possible that they altered themselves to adapt quicker. And this may be possible seeing as Hylians do seem to show that they are capable of altering themselves (Zelda magically becomes a Shiekah).

And what about the Wind and Earth sages? Well I believe that when the Master Sword was created they created the Earth and Wind Temples to keep the Master Sword's power and that the sages passed down the duty of doing this along with their instruments to their descendants and between OoT and WW we know that Ganondorf killed the Earth and Wind sages to prevent the Master Sword from keeping it's evil banishing powers.

However admittedly there is a hole in my theory that represents itself in ALttP. Or is there? I have an explanation for that as well. Okay so if the sages over the generations, evolved into the various races of OoT then how might you ask would you place ALttP on the timeline? Well we can see that in ALttP there is a lack of Gorons, Shiekah, and Kokiri and the only Zoras are monsters. However I rule out the Zora that gives you flippers as a civil zora because well he seems like a monster himself and really he seems to only be nice because you satisfied his greed for rupees.

Now however I figure that ALttP goes first on the timeline (with the seal war behind it) before OoT. But wait what's this? If ALttP goes before OoT on the timeline then why is it Ganon instead of Ganondorf? Well, I can explain. You see, I believe that ALttP goes on the timeline hundreds of years before OoT meaning there would be enough time for the events leading to OoT to happen.

Now then that's all for now folks.

 

[Locke]

We have the seven sages in OOT, then Kaepora Gaebora (the Owl) which is reincarnaion of an ancient sages.

reincarnation of a sage, but not a sage himself. Perhaps the ancient sage was a particularly powerful one who managed to retain some of the spiritual connection in his future life (much like Qui-Gon/Ben/Yoda/Anikin overcame death in Star Wars). But I don't think Kaepora Gaebora itself should be considered a Sage.

Now I believe it may be possible that the Hylians were the first race of Hyrule because according to most accounts of the Goddesses creating Hyrule and the Hylians they seem to have only created the Hylians. I believe that it may be possible that the Hylians evolved and adapted to different environments of Hyrule. Like for instance a group of Hylian children met the Deku Tree and he began to watch over them in the forest, granting them eternal youth and everlasting peace and safety (at least until OoT), thus crafting the Kokiri way of life. And likewise with the Zoras.

I think Nintendo's aversion to copying modern religions would rule out evolution.

However admittedly there is a hole in my theory that represents itself in ALttP. Or is there? I have an explanation for that as well. Okay so if the sages over the generations, evolved into the various races of OoT then how might you ask would you place ALttP on the timeline? Well we can see that in ALttP there is a lack of Gorons, Shiekah, and Kokiri and the only Zoras are monsters. ... Now however I figure that ALttP goes first on the timeline (with the seal war behind it) before OoT.

Or LttP takes place during a time when the Hylians are particularly powerful, so the goddesses bestow the powers of Sages to them alone (or vice-versa, goddesses give power so Hylians prosper more than other races).
Or the simple explanation that Nintendo hadn't really developed the races enough at that point.
Of course, I don't think these suggestions are any better (or worse) than your own, just other options to consider.

And what about the Wind and Earth sages? Well I believe that when the Master Sword was created they created the Earth and Wind Temples to keep the Master Sword's power and that the sages passed down the duty of doing this along with their instruments to their descendants and between OoT and WW we know that Ganondorf killed the Earth and Wind sages to prevent the Master Sword from keeping it's evil banishing powers.

I believe that the Sages of Earth and Wind are descendants/heirs of the Sages of Water and Forest. The goddesses were forced to tweak their positions after flooding Hyrule. They didn't want there to be a Sage of Water for the same reason they changed the Zoras into the Rito: That would bring them too close to Hyrule. As for the Sage of Forests, there wasn't much forest left to be sage of, most of it being flooded. Plus wind becomes a much more prevalent element (it and water being just about the only things you can find at sea), not to mention the title of the game...

I also believe that the other 5 sages still exist in WW, one being Tetra/Zelda, the other four not being shown in the game for development and gameplay reasons. I think they all prayed for the power of the Master Sword, they were all killed by Ganondorf in the BS, and Link must awaken all 7 of the new ones, only 3 being shown in the game.

If the Earth and Wind Sages were created at the time of the forging of the MS, then they'd also have to be around during OoT. Of course you could use the same argument I used for WW, but I find it easier to explain 7 sages (one for each race, plus one extra for Hylians, the superior race) than 9. Plus I think that since the MS was such a big part of OoT the developers wouldn't have been able to avoid the appearance of the other 2 sages in at least some little way.

 

[Master Kokiri 9]

I think Nintendo's aversion to copying modern religions would rule out evolution.

Well this actually isn't necessarily true. You see everybody adapts to their environment and no God or Goddess or other force can stop this. This is known as evolution. And who's to say the Hylians didn't speed up the process with magic like I believe the zoras did during the Great Flood.

Or LttP takes place during a time when the Hylians are particularly powerful, so the goddesses bestow the powers of Sages to them alone (or vice-versa, goddesses give power so Hylians prosper more than other races).
Or the simple explanation that Nintendo hadn't really developed the races enough at that point.
Of course, I don't think these suggestions are any better (or worse) than your own, just other options to consider.

Yeah it might be possible that ALttP took place when the Hylians were powerful and suppressed most other races. However if this was true we'd see Skull Kids and Kokiri in the Lost Woods probably and last I checked there were none in the entire game.

I believe that the Sages of Earth and Wind are descendants/heirs of the Sages of Water and Forest. The goddesses were forced to tweak their positions after flooding Hyrule. They didn't want there to be a Sage of Water for the same reason they changed the Zoras into the Rito: That would bring them too close to Hyrule. As for the Sage of Forests, there wasn't much forest left to be sage of, most of it being flooded. Plus wind becomes a much more prevalent element (it and water being just about the only things you can find at sea), not to mention the title of the game...

I never thought about that Locke. I can see the Forest Sage becoming the Wind Sage but not the Water Sage becoming the Earth Sage. Also I've always thought there was a force field around Sunken Hyrule that prevented others from seeing it and entering it unless they did what Link did but then there would be good reason (which when Link did it there was).

I also believe that the other 5 sages still exist in WW, one being Tetra/Zelda, the other four not being shown in the game for development and gameplay reasons. I think they all prayed for the power of the Master Sword, they were all killed by Ganondorf in the BS, and Link must awaken all 7 of the new ones, only 3 being shown in the game.

Yeah I think the other sages just weren't present in the game.

If the Earth and Wind Sages were created at the time of the forging of the MS, then they'd also have to be around during OoT. Of course you could use the same argument I used for WW, but I find it easier to explain 7 sages (one for each race, plus one extra for Hylians, the superior race) than 9. Plus I think that since the MS was such a big part of OoT the developers wouldn't have been able to avoid the appearance of the other 2 sages in at least some little way.

Well not necessarily. Indeed in OoT the Master Sword was a big part of the gameplay but it wasn't that much part of the story like it was in WW. Did Link and Navi search for the Master Sword? Nope. Theey found it 'on accident' in the Temple of Time. Did Link and KoRL search for it in WW? Yep. Half the game was spent on gaining the 'item that can banish Ganon'. Although it would be cool if those sages were present in OoT.

 

[Locke]

Yeah it might be possible that ALttP took place when the Hylians were powerful and suppressed most other races. However if this was true we'd see Skull Kids and Kokiri in the Lost Woods probably and last I checked there were none in the entire game.

I could use the same argument I used for the other 5 sages in WW plus the point that this was an early game and Nintendo hadn't developed the Kokiri yet to counter that.

I never thought about that Locke. I can see the Forest Sage becoming the Wind Sage but not the Water Sage becoming the Earth Sage. Also I've always thought there was a force field around Sunken Hyrule that prevented others from seeing it and entering it unless they did what Link did but then there would be good reason (which when Link did it there was).

That force field was around Ganondorf's castle in order to keep Link out.
Though I agree the goddesses could easily have cast a spell to keep Hyrule invisible, but then you have the problem of the Zoras turning into the Rita. Using your evolution argument, one would think they'd thrive in the prevalent water, so why would they change their form on their own?

Well not necessarily. Indeed in OoT the Master Sword was a big part of the gameplay but it wasn't that much part of the story like it was in WW. Did Link and Navi search for the Master Sword? Nope. Theey found it 'on accident' in the Temple of Time. Did Link and KoRL search for it in WW? Yep. Half the game was spent on gaining the 'item that can banish Ganon'. Although it would be cool if those sages were present in OoT.

A very good point

 

[Master Kokiri 9]

That force field was around Ganondorf's castle in order to keep Link out.
Though I agree the goddesses could easily have cast a spell to keep Hyrule invisible, but then you have the problem of the Zoras turning into the Rita. Using your evolution argument, one would think they'd thrive in the prevalent water, so why would they change their form on their own?

Well I'm pretty sure that the Hyrule civil Zoras from OoT and TP are freshwater amphibious beings (beings that semi-live in lake,river, and pond water without salt) while the Terminan civil Zoras from MM are saltwater amphibious beings (which are the same as freshwater zoras but live on saltwater) and we know oceans are made up of saltwater. If you recall real world biology most of the time if a freshwater fish or amphibian comes into contact with saltwater it would resound a violent reaction which may result in serious injury or more likely death and vice versa with saltwater fish/amphibians and freshwater (however sharks are able to switch without these side effects but zoras may not).

Next is water pressure. Now again recalling real world physics water is heavier than air and in oceans things get pretty deep. And if the Great Flood made Hyrule's tallest mountains mere tiny islands that would take trillions upon trillions of water right? Yep. Okay so let's sum up the unlikeliness of zoras being able to overcome the freshwater/saltwater thing and being able to swim in the sea. Now compared to the lakes most Hyrule civil Zoras would be used to the zoras would be crushed under the immense water pressure and die.

So what do the zoras do in order to survive? Simple. They devolve (according to my 'all races of Hyrule originate from the hylians' theory) back into hylians with the use of magic and climb the mountain that becomes Dragon Roost. There they meet Valoo and like it happened with Jabu Jabu Valoo grants them mastery over the air (wings) and thus the Rito way of life is born.

And finally the Goddesses, before sinking Hyrule, told everybody to take refuge on the mountaintops of Hyrule and this very likely applied to the zoras as well as the Hylians and the Kokiri.

Also I know the zora warriors from PH are going to be in your next post on this thread so I'll explain them while I'm at it. First of all they are not from the same world that Hyrule was in. They are in the Ocean King's Ocean which I believe may be Termina meaning the zoras there are saltwater based.

 

[Locke]

Upon further research, I have determined that it is impossible to prove you wrong. However, it is also impossible to prove me wrong. One can only provide alternative possibilities. And many are still arguing on whether or not the Zoras even became the Rito in the first place.

What was this thread about again? ..Oh, yeah. Sages.
Well, I think it's quite obvious that the Wind Sage is a descendant of the Forest Sage, so I see no reason why not to assume that the Earth Sage is a descendant of the Water Sage.

 

[Mikenike]

All of the sages in OOT stay the sages until they decide not to be. Whether or not these are present in every game I believe that there will always be 7 original sages. They each control something and keep things normal.

 

[Chrono]

They were chosen as the sages, they don't make that decision themselves.

 

[Ikana]

some people think in oot when link and zelda go back in time after they beat ganondorf the sages in the adult time line don't become sages.But I don't know since they are seen on the glass windows in wind waker.

 

[Mikenike]

They were chosen as the sages, they don't make that decision themselves.

Once again, I didn't say it was fact. Pay attention to the "I believe" Not " I know"

 

[Chrono]

"All of the sages in OOT stay the sages until they decide not to be." That statement does not use the word believe, think, or whatever else.

 

[Locke]

some people think in oot when link and zelda go back in time after they beat ganondorf the sages in the adult time line don't become sages.But I don't know since they are seen on the glass windows in wind waker.

Zelda doesn't go back in time, just Link.
Do people really think that? Or did they mean child timeline? It makes perfect sense for them not to awaken in the CT, but as you say, not the AT.

 

[DeletedUser9]

some people think in oot when link and zelda go back in time after they beat ganondorf the sages in the adult time line don't become sages.But I don't know since they are seen on the glass windows in wind waker.

?

There are two timelines. The Adult and Child Timelines. The Adult Timeline goes with the ending of OoT, with Link defeating Ganondorf and what happened after that. This is the one where the OoT sages became sages, and hundreds of years later, WW occurs.

The Child Timeline goes with the Link who went back in time and changed the past. After this (the exact amount of time is unclear, could be a very short or very long amount of time) is TP (with MM in between as a side story). Since the events of OoT resulting in the new sages never happened, it's probable that they never became sages at all, although it's not impossible.

Point is, using Wind Waker as an argument does work because Wind Waker and that theory itself are are separate timelines.

"All of the sages in OOT stay the sages until they decide not to be." That statement does not use the word believe, think, or whatever else.

He never said he actually used those words. You don't need to use the words "believe" or "think" to express something that is your opinion and not a proven fact. Although it does sound a bit like he's stating it like a fact, it's still apparent now from what he's said that he didn't intend it as such.