Spoiler Goldenblade's Zelda Timeline Theory

[Pinecove]

The thing that Zethar II (the translator for that document) translated "hell" from is known in Japanese as a "makai." Makai are really just pieces of territory owned by demons. They can be as big as worlds (Ganon with the Sacred Realm in OoT or ALttP) or as small as towers (the great moblin in OoS and OoA). The important part however is that the makai from which Ganon's minions were coming from was not A makai, but THE makai. meaning it was not just Ganon's world. It was THE WORLD of demons.

Seeing as we are given constant reference to a "dark world" (translated from makai) which we know is not the dark world, yet which always seems to exist, always having monsters in it, I think it's safe to say that thismakai is the world of demons.

In AoL, demons are appearing from a makai that is not Ganon's. (THE makai, not a makai in particular. An actual world.)

In AST, Ganon's spirit lingers, almost managing to re materialize (as it does in LoZ.) This is because while Ganon's body destroyed, he spirit (his "essence" if you will) remains. In the dark world. The world of demons. Waiting to re materialize. More on this later.

In OoS, Onox is summoned from "The dark world" while Ganon is dead. (Yami no sekai, not anyone's makai. Yami no sekai mans "world of darkness.")

In OoA, Veran talks about extending the "dark realm's" reach (although this is a reference to her extending the sorrows of the world really, "Sekai no Yami" instead of "Yami no sekai" (darkness of the world vs. world of darkness.)

In the OoX linked ending, Ganon's spirit is being called "from the dark world" to the land of the living. This matches AST quite well.

In FSA Ganon constantly summons demons from the "dark world" Yami no Sekai" in the final battle. This is not to be confused with "Sekaiju Kurai" (the dark reflection over Hyrule that you enter using moon pearls) however, which is implied to be spread by the dark mirror (Kurai no Kagami). As well, the entire level 5 "the dark world" is not THE yami no sekai either. It is darkness covering Hyrule due to the life being sucked out of the land (like the twilight curtain.)

In ST, Malladus is sealed in the dark world, despite the fact that his body is destroyed. MAlladus is dead but sealed. We later learn that he is sealed in "the dark world." This is absolute proof that the demon world is the world of the dead, the place we visit in ST.

The Dark world is a world of demons. Where the are "sealed" when their physical form is destroyed. Where they re-materialize. Where the dead go and come out to play.

 

[Goldenblade]

interesting. very interesting....

 

[Simon]

I'm going to try to revive this thread by throwing a new idea out there:


..............WW - PH - ST - MC - FS - FSA -LoZ - AoL - OoX
............./.................................................. ...................\
SS - OoT............................................... .........................LA
.............\.................................... ................................/
..............MM - TP - Alttp ---------------------------------OoX

So we have the generally accepted base of the timeline. Where I go from there is that TMC does not take place in the early years of the timeline in general, but rather of the "New" Hyrule founded in ST. There are a couple of reasons for this that I won't go into right now, one of which being that the Master Sword does not exist (or simply isn't around) in these games. I have Alttp after TP for a couple of reasons including the existance of the MS and the appearance of the decaying of the ToT. LoZ and AoL both take place later on in the lifetime of "New" Hyrule. The most controversial part of my theory is my placement of OoX and LA. Now, it has been established that OoX takes place after Ganon has been killed, and that this takes place in ALttP and AoL. It is my belief that they both games take place on both sides of the timeline. I believe that what changes is which order they take place in. Obviously either order could be at either side of the timeline, but what I find important about this is that the joint ending of both these games re-joins the split timelines, leading to LA.

Feedback would be very welcome.

 

[Goldenblade]

not possible. the minish cap has to take place 100 years (approx 2 generations) after ss, because it is when the minish arrived shortly before skyward sword, hiding rupees all around. the oox being a link between the two timelines is a VERY good idea, but i disagree with la being a sequel to the oracle series, and i also disagree with oox being after alttp, i don't know much about alttp, but i know that la is it's direct sequel. that's my opinion, but your theory is very interesting.

 

[JuicieJ]

not possible. the minish cap has to take place 100 years (approx 2 generations) after ss, because it is when the minish arrived shortly before skyward sword, hiding rupees all around. the oox being a link between the two timelines is a VERY good idea, but i disagree with la being a sequel to the oracle series, and i also disagree with oox being after alttp, i don't know much about alttp, but i know that la is it's direct sequel. that's my opinion, but your theory is very interesting.

We don't even know if the Picori are going to be a factor in this game. And, actually, they probably aren't. The Picori brought the Picori Blade down to Link. Phi somehow (appears) to mix with Link's sword, making the Skyward Sword. It later becomes the Master Sword, and will surely be sealed in the Temple of Time. For what you're saying to work, the Picori Blade will have to be the Master Sword, and therefore can't come before Ocarina of Time. In other words, The Minish Cap can't come in-between Skyward Sword and Ocarina of Time.

 

[Locke]

MC isn't exactly 100 years after the War of the Bound Chest. It's some multiple of 100 years. The Picori are said to come every 100 years, meaning there must be some precedent. How can they have that legend if they haven't been coming for several hundreds of years?

 

[Goldenblade]

well, unless my zelda history is wrong, it WAS 100 years. i'll check my math, but i'm pretty sure.... maybe you're right, but i disagree.

i think someone said something like: "this is the 100th year since the piccori first came (for those who don't know, piccori is the hylian name for minish.)

 

[JuicieJ]

well, unless my zelda history is wrong, it WAS 100 years. i'll check my math, but i'm pretty sure.... maybe you're right, but i disagree.

i think someone said something like: "this is the 100th year since the piccori first came (for those who don't know, piccori is the hylian name for minish.)

It didn't say that. It just said this was the 100th year since they last appeared. For something to become legend would have taken hundreds of years, not 100.

 

[Simon]

not possible. the minish cap has to take place 100 years (approx 2 generations) after ss, because it is when the minish arrived shortly before skyward sword, hiding rupees all around. the oox being a link between the two timelines is a VERY good idea, but i disagree with la being a sequel to the oracle series, and i also disagree with oox being after alttp, i don't know much about alttp, but i know that la is it's direct sequel. that's my opinion, but your theory is very interesting.

I think they are suppsosed to come every 100 years. Either way I think you're placing far too much importance on a throwaway comment from a minor title. LA was the direct sequel to ALttP before the Oracle games came out, so the timeline may well have changed since.

 

[JuicieJ]

LA was the direct sequel to ALttP before the Oracle games came out, so the timeline may well have changed since.

What you don't understand there is that he's saying they were intended to go in-between ALttP and LA. And that does make a whole lotta sense. (Yeah, me, the guy who doesn't theorize the "timeline", but just picks it apart and is very literal with it said it makes a whole lotta sense. That's saying something. As in, they're the only ones that come close to the concept of theorizing the "timeline" with me. In other words, I'm saying that's probably where they would go if they were to be placed.)

 

[DuckNoises]

I'm going to try to revive this thread by throwing a new idea out there:


..............WW - PH - ST - MC - FS - FSA -LoZ - AoL - OoX
............./.................................................. ...................\
SS - OoT............................................... .........................LA
.............\.................................... ................................/
..............MM - TP - Alttp ---------------------------------OoX

So we have the generally accepted base of the timeline. Where I go from there is that TMC does not take place in the early years of the timeline in general, but rather of the "New" Hyrule founded in ST. There are a couple of reasons for this that I won't go into right now, one of which being that the Master Sword does not exist (or simply isn't around) in these games. I have Alttp after TP for a couple of reasons including the existance of the MS and the appearance of the decaying of the ToT. LoZ and AoL both take place later on in the lifetime of "New" Hyrule. The most controversial part of my theory is my placement of OoX and LA. Now, it has been established that OoX takes place after Ganon has been killed, and that this takes place in ALttP and AoL. It is my belief that they both games take place on both sides of the timeline. I believe that what changes is which order they take place in. Obviously either order could be at either side of the timeline, but what I find important about this is that the joint ending of both these games re-joins the split timelines, leading to LA.

Feedback would be very welcome.

First off, Simon, this is borderline off-topic, but I'll allow it. Try not to throw in a new theory unless you're sure it's relevant to where the discussion is headed.

I have seen people who believe that OoX can take place on both ends of the timeline, but the primary issue is that Twinrova are dead on the Adult Timeline, after having been killed in the adult portion of OoT. They make no other appearances in any of the games you have placed after TWW, either. Are you suggesting that this combination of Koume and Kotake is different from the one seen in OoT? If they are new, how did they come about, and how do they know so much in regards to Ganon's death?

Secondly, how is it that LA can join the two strands of the split timeline? Remember, the split is caused by a divergence in events during and after OoT. The only possible way in which two alternate realities can be "re-joined" is by having the same exact path to the end point, which is, in essence, converging by having been the same thing. This is to say that the Adult Timeline would probably have to be identical to the Child Timeline to yield the same end result. I love to pull out Sheik's "River of time" metaphor whenever possible, which essentially explains time travel in Zelda and (in my opinion) foreshadows the split timeline.

Past, present, future...
The Master Sword is a ship with
which you can sail upstream and
downstream through time's river...
The port for that ship is in the
Temple of Time...
To restore the Desert Colossus
and enter the Spirit Temple, you
must travel back through time's
flow...

Can you explain how these two diverging "rivers" finally converge?

Finally, LA features many references to ALttP, which indicates to me that it is the same Hero from ALttP. Most of these references are in the final boss battle as apparitions of Link's memory. If LA comes after OoX without the OoX Hero having defeated Ganon in ALttP, how do you explain the presence of such figures like Agahnim in LA? Agahnim does make an appearance in OoS, but is such an appearance enough to warrant his presence in LA the way ALttP's Agahnim belongs in LA for the hero of ALttP? Also note that the LA manual makes several references to ALttP, most notably that it implies the Link of LA is the same hero from ALttP (although it doesn't state that LA is necessarily a direct sequel to ALttP).

 

[Simon]

First off, Simon, this is borderline off-topic, but I'll allow it. Try not to throw in a new theory unless you're sure it's relevant to where the discussion is headed.

I have seen people who believe that OoX can take place on both ends of the timeline, but the primary issue is that Twinrova are dead on the Adult Timeline, after having been killed in the adult portion of OoT. They make no other appearances in any of the games you have placed after TWW, either. Are you suggesting that this combination of Koume and Kotake is different from the one seen in OoT? If they are new, how did they come about, and how do they know so much in regards to Ganon's death?

Secondly, how is it that LA can join the two strands of the split timeline? Remember, the split is caused by a divergence in events during and after OoT. The only possible way in which two alternate realities can be "re-joined" is by having the same exact path to the end point, which is, in essence, converging by having been the same thing. This is to say that the Adult Timeline would probably have to be identical to the Child Timeline to yield the same end result. I love to pull out Sheik's "River of time" metaphor whenever possible, which essentially explains time travel in Zelda and (in my opinion) foreshadows the split timeline.

Can you explain how these two diverging "rivers" finally converge?

Finally, LA features many references to ALttP, which indicates to me that it is the same Hero from ALttP. Most of these references are in the final boss battle as apparitions of Link's memory. If LA comes after OoX without the OoX Hero having defeated Ganon in ALttP, how do you explain the presence of such figures like Agahnim in LA? Agahnim does make an appearance in OoS, but is such an appearance enough to warrant his presence in LA the way ALttP's Agahnim belongs in LA for the hero of ALttP? Also note that the LA manual makes several references to ALttP, most notably that it implies the Link of LA is the same hero from ALttP (although it doesn't state that LA is necessarily a direct sequel to ALttP).

What I'm suggesting is that the combined ending of the Oracle games combines the timelines. The references to ALttP IMO doesn't disqualify my theory as LA was originally designed as a direct sequel to ALttP. I still believe it is the same Link from both AoL AND ALttp but (if you stick with me) the moment at which Link is knocked out by the storm at the beginning of LA and subsequently wakes up on Koholint is the exact moment at which the timelines merge again.

 

[Satsy]

How can the two rivers of time combine when New Hyrule is a completely different land mass to the original Hyrule? No amount of similarities will make it old Hyrule.

 

[JuicieJ]

How can the two rivers of time combine when New Hyrule is a completely different land mass to the original Hyrule? No amount of similarities will make it old Hyrule.

That's what I've been saying this whole time. I think you're the first person I've seen to agree with me on this. Thank you.

 

[Simon]

How can the two rivers of time combine when New Hyrule is a completely different land mass to the original Hyrule? No amount of similarities will make it old Hyrule.

But, if we're using my theory, LA doesn't take place in Hyrule.