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metalzeldahead
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here's a thought if girahim summoned the tornado that the whale made the apearence in then girahim summoned the whale therefore girahim is the WHALE'S master
Ghirahim's Master
- Thread starter Dio
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JuicieJ
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Eh. That just seems like too far of a stretch, especially with how different that creature looks from the figure in the middle of all the other interlopers.
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2011
Your picture didn't show up, but that's ok. I looked into it a little more and upon looking closely at other pictures, I'd say it is indeed an accurate observation that his ears are at least different.
To the people complaining about being off topic, all of these "side" discussions are absolutely relavent. Even the Termina one played a part in the speculation about Majora or the Fierce Deity being Ghirahim's master.
The fact that Vaati used to be a picori is irrelavent. It's already clear that Vaati couldn't be in if SS comes before MC. It just seems well supported at this point that SS comes after MC. In which case, Vaati's most recent form was the wind mage beast.
To the people complaining about being off topic, all of these "side" discussions are absolutely relavent. Even the Termina one played a part in the speculation about Majora or the Fierce Deity being Ghirahim's master.
The fact that Vaati used to be a picori is irrelavent. It's already clear that Vaati couldn't be in if SS comes before MC. It just seems well supported at this point that SS comes after MC. In which case, Vaati's most recent form was the wind mage beast.
JuicieJ
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Can you explain your reasoning on this? I've seen absolutely nothing to suggest that.
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2011
Well now it's showing up. The hair in the way still makes it a little uncertain, but some videos show it pretty well.
Can I assume you know the story of MC well? And the intro story for SS? If so then let me just give you some points here to think about:
MC Zelda=the "lady/goddess"
The Light Force=that which the beasts were after and was protected by the lady
Beasts under control of Vaati=beasts swarming the land below
War of the Bound Chest=original appearance of the beasts that crept right out of the ground
Vaati=Leader of Dark Tribe
There was already a kingdom on the land below
assumption: beasts at least associated with the dark tribe
assumption: Light Force at least associated with the ultimate power to grant desires (obviously a referrence to the Triforce)
In MC, there is no Hylian crest, yet the Triforce is known about
Picori=ancient ones who gave the lady the power
the above is not concrete, but they are things to think about
Can I assume you know the story of MC well? And the intro story for SS? If so then let me just give you some points here to think about:
MC Zelda=the "lady/goddess"
The Light Force=that which the beasts were after and was protected by the lady
Beasts under control of Vaati=beasts swarming the land below
War of the Bound Chest=original appearance of the beasts that crept right out of the ground
Vaati=Leader of Dark Tribe
There was already a kingdom on the land below
assumption: beasts at least associated with the dark tribe
assumption: Light Force at least associated with the ultimate power to grant desires (obviously a referrence to the Triforce)
In MC, there is no Hylian crest, yet the Triforce is known about
Picori=ancient ones who gave the lady the power
the above is not concrete, but they are things to think about
JuicieJ
SHOW ME YA MOVES!
1.) Zelda is not a goddess. She is a human and that's always the way it will be.
2/8.) The Light Force is never said to grant one's desires. Only the Triforce has been stated to do that, and the Light Force is not the Triforce.
3/5.) Vaati is a Picori and only is in his human form due to the Minish Cap. He had never appeared before. Otherwise he would have been defeated before and known by the people of Hyrule. They would have known what he was doing. And, as I've said before with other things, Vaati looks nothing like the leader of the tribe shown in the intro video.
4.) Only if Vaati is the leader, which he can't be.
6.) That's not stated. At all. Simply an assumption.
7.) I don't see the point of the argument, here. That goes along with Vaati being the leader of the "dark interlopers", which, again, he isn't.
9.) What are you talking about? That's clearly the goddesses that did that. They were the creators of it. They would be the ones to decide who guards the Triforce.
I'd just like to add that, while the goddess is referred to as a goddess, she may not actually be one. She may just be someone with extreme powers that was revered as a goddess. It seems strange that an actual goddess was given the absolute power (most likely the triforce) by other gods. Its possible that the power that was handed down to her gave her so much power that she seemed like a goddess to witnesses. Of course this is all speculation. I'm just trying to consider all possibilities here.
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2011
1. In the original translation they alternated between calling her a goddess and a lady. Plus, it seems quite obvious that SS Zelda is descended from her. (inheritance of the harp and whatever was sought after by the evil ones since Ghirahim is still going after it)
2. Well duh, I said they are likely associated with one another. And we know that the triforce as we know it wasn't directly protected by that "lady/goddess," it should still be in the sacred realm.
3. You're still making no sense with the picori argument. He started out as a picori, then he transformed into a human, then he transformed very briefly into a more powerful human, last he had several wind mage beast forms which you still see in FS and FSA. That was the form he was killed in in MC. Vaati would only be a picori if it came before MC. I'm saying after.
4. I wouldn't deny the possibility that Vaati is the leader of the dark interlopers. It's not even confirmed this game deals with the dark interlopers. And that term doesn't have to refer to any kind of specific tribe. They could just be beasts. Perhaps the same ones as in MC and the War of the Bound Chest. At the very least, I'd say they could have correlation.
5. Those silhoettes mean literally nothing. Don't you think a clear image of Vaati would kill the story if it was their plan to have him as the main surprise antagonist? And to be fair, Vaati does have horns.
6. The goddesses created the triforce and it has been in the sacred realm this whole time presumably. In the original translation of the intro they don't say "gods" gave the power to her. They simply call them ancient ones. That could be referring to the picori giving the light force to the royal family and ultimately to her (as it does say it's through generations).
JuicieJ
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Um...not really. Just because she has the harp doesn't mean she's a descendant of the goddess.
Go to the video with English translation. You should see quite clearly she was its guardian.
The Picori thing makes perfect sense. Why would a Picori be involved with some outside tribe? And that eye form still looks nothing like the figure in the middle of all the other interlopers. Plus, Vaati was sealed in the Four Sword. Just how is he out for a little while longer and then back in it later when the Four Sword has nothing to do with Skyward Sword?
Not confirmed through direct quote, but with the information given, it literally has undeniable evidence that pretty much proves it to be so. And how would they just be beasts if Ghirahim is one of them? He seems to be a human to me.
Those silhouettes mean everything, actually. Ghirahim is one of them, as I've shown before. With as accurate as it is with him, there's no way they'd put that demon-looking thing in there and Ghirahim's master not have that same design.
My thoughts too. I Have a theory that Zelda is actually the Goddess (or an embodiment), and that Ghirahim needs her power to resurect the demon...
JuicieJ
SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Zelda sure doesn't seem like she knows what's going on with what we've seen of her. She was also afraid of Ghirahim when he was charging at her. The goddess directly waged war with him before. Kind of seems...contradictory for lack of a better word. I highly doubt this one.
Myriadviper42
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- Feb 14, 2010
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I say three words: wait and see. It may be painful, but at least we won't kill ourselves arguing over who, or who not it is.
JuicieJ
SHOW ME YA MOVES!
But that's the whole point of this thread. :bleh:
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2011
1. Did I say it was just the harp? No. Try to read more thouroughly. As I've said, none of this is concrete, but it is still very probable that she is a descendant. There is the harp, what the evil ones are after (most likely not the triforce), the fact that this game is supposed to explain some ties between Zelda and the "goddess(es)", and the fact that it just seems to fit well.
2. No, actually they don't mention the triforce specifically nor do they show it. The original, Japanese version carries more significance for obvious reasons anyway even if it did.
3. As I've said, and you should know from the game, Vaati is killed in MC. A resurrection in SS without anything major happening to him in the end would fill a hole in the timeline. In some four swords games released in the future they could have him getting sealed in the four sword, setting up for the original FS.
4. You think that Ghirahim's master will look just like that silhoette in the center? That's depressing. We don't even know for sure that the figure is Ghirahim's master even though it is very likely. And yes, I know Vaati looks nothing like the silhoette. I was just pointing out that they both have horns... kind of.
5. You understand, don't you, that the dark interlopers are simply evil beings that sought after the triforce at one point early on, were held prisoner at Arbiter's Grounds, and were then sealed in some realm that came to be known as the Twilight Realm once the interlopers evolved into the Twili, right? What's the evidence that Ghirahim and the others are the dark interlopers? They're evil, they might go after the triforce, and it would be about that era. Make sure you know what you're talking about before making such big claims. Some people have critisized me for making some big claims without hard proof, but at least I know what I'm talking about and can back myself up.
6. The beasts could be among that which Ghirahim is among, is what I am suggesting. Not that they are the same race. -_-
7. You do understand that every single one of the silhoettes has mismatching ears/horns don't you? There is no reason to believe any particular one is Ghirahim.
8. Just because Vaati used to be a picori, does not mean that he can't be the leader of a group of evil beings. Again, there is no reason to believe that the interlopers have to all be the exact same race.