First Five Titles - Timeline Issue?

[MrMosley]

Which is exactly my stance on OoT-LoZ-AlttP.

OoT-AlttP can work, but everyone is asuming it HAS to work because ALttP is directly after the SW which it isn't.

ALttP's backstory IS the SW. That doesn't mean its directly before it; Only that the events of ALttP are based on events that happened during the SW. That meaning, that the SW was the last big event to take place in Hyrule before ALttP. Just like WW gives the BS of OoT, because it was the last big event to take place, and WW is based on those events. The SW as ALttP's BS is the exact same deal.

However the map in the beta was the exact same map.

Still, the SW obviously takes place during a time when Hyrule was different (as in generations ago).

Wait didn't Erimgard debate THIS EXACT THING with you to show you how OoT=SW CAN work after TWW?

I'm not sure. But my point is that the SW (as stated above) didn't take place right before ALttP, but probably a generation or so prior. However, it was obviously the last big event in Hyrule before ALttP.

 

[sign of table]

Last time I checked we use the actual game to get our information, not the beta that isn't canon.

So what? We can look at what things were like in that time, what mattered and didn't matter, etc and use that logic to decide what matters and doesn't now.

If that map didn't matter then (including the fact that it's a freaken island, yet likely took place on the CT even in the beta. And that it would have taken place directly prior to LttP (too recent for there to be any big geography changes) why should it, while still unchanged, matter now?

Still, the SW obviously takes place during a time when Hyrule was different (as in generations ago).

An entire nation doesn't unflood in just a few generations. That would take a long *** time for an entire nation to unflood and change so much.

So the conclusion is: LOLgeography.

 

[MrMosley]

An entire nation doesn't unflood in just a few generations. That would take a long *** time for an entire nation to unflood and change so much.

Who said anything unflooded? I know I sure didn't and it was my response that you quoted.

If your referring to Hyrule after WW or something, I think that's an impossibility. So, I really don't know where your going with that one.

 

[sign of table]

^Look at the FSA map. See what's around Hyrule?
Then look at the LttP map. See what's around Hyrule?

That is what I was referring to.

And if the FSA map means NOTHING to you, then why should the much more subtle changes in the AST map mean anything?

Seriously what a double standard.

 

[MrMosley]

^Look at the FSA map. See what's around Hyrule?
Then look at the LttP map. See what's around Hyrule?

That is what I was referring to.

Your saying that because there's water around Hyrule in FSA, that it meanst Hyrule has been unflooded?

Look at the map in LoZ/AoL... Both of those have water around them. People can speculate that if they choose, but it doesn't have to mean "unflooded". In fact, every single piece of land on earth is surrounded by water.

You know what is on the outer edges of ALttP's Map? Clouds... Same thing that's on the outside of OoT's map. Therefore, we don't know if there's surrounding water out there or not. Judging by the rest of every Hyrule we've ever seen, I would assume that all are surrounded by water.

And if the FSA map means NOTHING to you, then why should the much more subtle changes in the AST map mean anything?

Simply because it can. AST & ALttP occur in the same Hyrule overworld. FSA is ages prior. Things change in ages, not in months or a few years... At least not that drastically.

 

[sign of table]

Look at the map in LoZ/AoL... Both of those have water around them.

Wrong. Only AoL has water around it.

You know what is on the outer edges of ALttP's Map?

Except if you go to Death Mountain/Hebra Mountain/whatever you want to call it, and look at the background, it is CLEARLY surrounded by mountains.

FSA is a tiny *** island.

You know what is on the outer edges of ALttP's Map? Clouds... Same thing that's on the outside of OoT's map. Therefore, we don't know if there's surrounding water out there or not. Judging by the rest of every Hyrule we've ever seen, I would assume that all are surrounded by water.

Look at the background when you're on the mountain. The mountains go on for atleast a little while.

Here's a pic of the maps:

Pardon me for having trouble finding the FSA map. The quickest way I could remember finding it was in Smertios' popular geography thread on ZU, so I just went there and copied it from there

Anyways, look how impossible the FSA Hyrule is. Hell FS Hyrule disagrees with it, and even IT takes place a few years (or less) before FSA.

Look at all those changes! Look how different FS Hyrule, which takes place the same generation as FSA does, is from FSA Hyrule. I mean, hell, atleast AST has the same overworld and takes place a whole 6 years after LttP. FSA takes place a short time after FS (it could be as late as 6 years or more, but it's truly irrelevant). But the FS and FSA overworlds are clearly different.

From your logic we must conclude that FSA is not canon, right?

I'm just going to post a reply to what I assume you're going to say. If my reply doesn't work, then I apologize. But I'm gonna laugh my *** off if what I'm about to say applies to whatever reply you give:

loldouble standard

Simply because it can. AST & ALttP occur in the same Hyrule overworld. FSA is ages prior. Things change in ages, not in months or a few years... At least not that drastically.

The areas inside of Hyrule can logically change in that time, yes, but an unflooded continent doesn't suddenly turn into an island, then back into a continent without any explanation.

FSA map is physically impossible in the timeframe we have. By your logic it should be uncanon then, yes?

What happened between FSA and LttP CANNOT happen unless we have a timeframe of a couple hundred thousand to a milliion years.

And that's just ******** to say that FSA and LttP happen that far apart.

 

[Zemen]

FSA map is physically impossible in the timeframe we have. By your logic it should be uncanon then, yes?

What happened between FSA and LttP CANNOT happen unless we have a timeframe of a couple hundred thousand to a milliion years.

And that's just ******** to say that FSA and LttP happen that far apart.

The rest of the posts are really between you and MM but this caught my eye. I know that you don't argue geography ever so why are you arguing it now? I'm guessing to make a point, so I'll try to make a point as well.

It would be physically impossible for those changes to occur between FSA and ALTTP ASSUMING that Hyrule stayed in the same place. If you believe that Hyrule is always in the same place then you, yourself are dense. Based on the fact that none of the maps really look anything alike (except OoT and TP), it seems pretty clear to me that over the course of time, the actual location of Hyrule has moved multiple times. If you want to argue that such drastic changes can't occur unless there are hundreds of thousands/a million years in between then you could really say that for any of the games except the only 3 that don't take place in Hyrule.

Either there ARE hundreds of thousands/a million years between all of the games where the geography changes OR Hyrule's location changes throughout the course of time (probably for various reasons such as lack of water, food, other resources).

It's obvious in AST that it's the same Hyrule as ALTTP, but if the game takes place very shortly after ALTTP then the physical changes to Hyrule are impossible to explain. lolmagic

 

[sign of table]

I know that you don't argue geography ever so why are you arguing it now?

I like pointing out hypocrisy/double standards on the internet.

Based on the fact that none of the maps really look anything alike (except OoT and TP), it seems pretty clear to me that over the course of time, the actual location of Hyrule has moved multiple times. If you want to argue that such drastic changes can't occur unless there are hundreds of thousands/a million years in between then you could really say that for any of the games except the only 3 that don't take place in Hyrule.

You're saying that FSA Hyrule DOESN'T look like LttP Hyrule? Are you kidding me? Look at that comparison up there. I personally disagree with points 5, 7, and 9. Hell people who know me (IE Pinecove, Erimgard, and Viral) know that the FSA-LttP map comparison was the only one I'd ever accept because it's the only one (apart from OoT Hyrule being identical to LttP Hyrule) that was damn near identical.

You'd seriously have to be stupid not to see how similar FSA and LttP Hyrule are.

It's more similar than OoT-TP Hyrule.

I mean look, the mountain, the forest, the castle, the south-western desert, the other desert, and the lake are in the EXACT SAME SPOT.

That's the least subjective geography comparison possible (next to OoT-LttP Hyrule comparison).

Occam's Razor says that I am correct, and you are wrong.

Hell since in the other thread you were arguing intent, I have one more thing to say.

AoL BS proves that the intent for the series is for Hyrule to remain the same throughout.

And multiple Hyrule's eliminates one of the main reasons to not have an AT timeline.

 

[Zemen]

You're saying that FSA Hyrule DOESN'T look like LttP Hyrule?

I never said that. In fact I have argued that they do many times. Your post made it sound like you were saying that the geography completely changed between the 2 games. And yes, there can be that much water gone within however much time is in between the games. You don't know how long FSA would take place before ALTTP so you saying there isn't enough time is just speculation. Also, the Goddesses seemed to have flooded OoT/WW Hyrule in a matter of moments. Who is to say that that much water can't disappear in that much time? There could be multiple reasons why that water isn't there. Drought? Tectonic movement? FSA Hyrule looks like it has a volcano (I think I'm looking at the right thing). Maybe a small eruption caused more land to surround the area causing a seemingly lost coastline. Also, as MM has pointed out, Every Continent on our Earth is surrounded by ocean whether we see it or not. You're assuming that because we don't see it, it doesn't exist.

You'd seriously have to be stupid not to see how similar FSA and LttP Hyrule are.

Again, I never said I didn't think they were similar. You have been apart of the same threads I have been where I used that as evidence for FSA being a prequel to ALTTP. Don't indirectly call me stupid, please.

I mean look, the mountain, the forest, the castle, the south-western desert, the other desert, and the lake are in the EXACT SAME SPOT.

In most of the games, the general location of the mountains, forest and lake are always in the same location

Hell since in the other thread you were arguing intent, I have one more thing to say.

AoL BS proves that the intent for the series is for Hyrule to remain the same throughout.

WW would disagree with you. Are you forgetting that Hyrule is flooded and that Link and Tetra set out to find new land? That completely goes against the intentions of the AoL BS.

And multiple Hyrule's eliminates one of the main reasons to not have an AT timeline.

I don't have an AT timeline.

 

[sign of table]

I never said that.

Yes you did:

Based on the fact that none of the maps really look anything alike (except OoT and TP), it seems pretty clear to me that over the course of time, the actual location of Hyrule has moved multiple times.

None of the maps look alike excluding OoT and TP, according to you.

Changing opinions much?

You don't know how long FSA would take place before ALTTP so you saying there isn't enough time is just speculation.

It would take hundreds of thousands of years for mountains to form in large amounts and get rid of all of that water. So, yeah, FSA could happen a couple hundred thousand years before LttP, sure. Do you believe that that's what happened?

Who is to say that that much water can't disappear in that much time?

How long did it take for that big *** Tsunami in '04 to flood certain parts of Asia? How long did it take for the chaos that ensued to be cleared up? And that didn't even turn Asia into a 2 square mile island, either.

You're assuming that because we don't see it, it doesn't exist.

Of course there is an ocean, but that doesn't make the FSA map make any more sense. Sure something COULD have happened, however the FSA map doesn't make sense regardless.

Look at the FS map, then look at the FSA map. THAT is even less possible than LttP-AST.

WW would disagree with you. Are you forgetting that Hyrule is flooded and that Link and Tetra set out to find new land? That completely goes against the intentions of the AoL BS.

That doesn't go against the intentions of the AoL BS. The First Generation/Founder Zelda is supposed to stay in the same spot in Hyrule until the events of AoL. If AoL takes place on a different timeline than said flood, how does that flood effect anything?

I don't have an AT timeline.

I know you don't. So believing that there could be multiple Hyrules eliminates one of the main and logical reasons for not switching games to the AT.

 

[Zemen]

Yes you did:

None of the maps look alike excluding OoT and TP, according to you.

Changing opinions much?

You definitely took what I said way out of context. As I said before, you know that I have argued FSA map looking like ALTTP map before. Don't try and twist my words to make me look like a fool because when you get caught and called out on it it just makes you look like dumb (that purposely was said wrong).

I was referring to all other maps in the series. Other than OoT-TP and FSA-ALTTP give me 2 games that have similar maps when compared to each other.

It would take hundreds of thousands of years for mountains to form in large amounts and get rid of all of that water. So, yeah, FSA could happen a couple hundred thousand years before LttP, sure. Do you believe that that's what happened?

Regardless if I believe that this happened you just proved my point by saying it could. We don't know how much time it would take so saying that it's impossible is YOUR speculation, not fact.

How long did it take for that big *** Tsunami in '04 to flood certain parts of Asia? How long did it take for the chaos that ensued to be cleared up? And that didn't even turn Asia into a 2 square mile island, either.

How long did it take you to realize that Zelda is a videogame? The Goddesses flooded the world on the AT, not a tsunami (that we know of). For all you know, some divine thing could have happened causing less water in ALTTP map. Speculation? Yes, but so is your theory.

Of course there is an ocean, but that doesn't make the FSA map make any more sense. Sure something COULD have happened, however the FSA map doesn't make sense regardless.

It would if something happened... Which you seemed to have ruled out even though you have just as much evidence for your theory as I do.

Look at the FS map, then look at the FSA map. THAT is even less possible than LttP-AST.

Which should be your big hint that geography doesn't really matter, which is something I have always stuck with except when I used to argue FSA-ALTTP map similarities.

We know that FS and FSA are directly connected yet the maps are nothing alike. Hmm, maybe that means that the tiny detail of lack of water between FSA and ALTTP shouldn't matter so much.

That doesn't go against the intentions of the AoL BS. The First Generation/Founder Zelda is supposed to stay in the same spot in Hyrule until the events of AoL. If AoL takes place on a different timeline than said flood, how does that flood effect anything?

lol well ST seems to take place in Hyrule and the only way that would work is if it was a new Hyrule. Regardless of AoL being on the AT, doesn't that go against the intention of the series staying in the same Hyrule?

I know you don't. So believing that there could be multiple Hyrules eliminates one of the main and logical reasons for not switching games to the AT.

Well then here are your choices. Feel free to pick.

1) Hyrule's location has changed multiple times which would account for the great number of differences within most Hyrules.

2) There was enough time between all of the games for Hyrule's geography to change drastically (or not that drastically since lack of water doesn't seem so crazy to me).

or

3) Geography doesn't matter.


Stop arguing something when multiple times you have just shrugged it off and said "lolgeography."

Either deal with the fact that Hyrule can change or stop being hypocritical and stick to your "lolgeography" persona. You can't say that geography matters for one game and not for the rest. That's you believing what you WANT to believe.

 

[Megamannt125]

I think the developer's confuse themselves sometimes, heck, Aonuma said all of the Four Sword Trilogy go before OOT, which obviously doesn't make sense in the slightest, we should also think, that maybe that used to be the timeline, but is it really hard for Miyamoto or Aonuma to go in and change things around? Nowadays, the Miyamoto order makes no sense, but back then, it could make sense.
Also about a few things above: Is it not possible that Hyrule has always been an island, we've just never been shown the ocean on a map until FSA? It'd also make alot more sense for the flood in WW to flood hyrule, being an island and all.

 

[Zemen]

I think the developer's confuse themselves sometimes, heck, Aonuma said all of the Four Sword Trilogy go before OOT, which obviously doesn't make sense in the slightest,

He has never said the FS series takes place before OoT. It was stated at one point that FS was going to be the oldest tale of Hyrule but that was scrapped and the idea for FS changed (thus making that statement false). FSA is a direct sequel to FS which we know is not before OoT so FSA is not before OoT. MC is debatable.

Nowadays, the Miyamoto order makes no sense, but back then, it could make sense.

Even back then it didn't make sense to most people.

Also about a few things above: Is it not possible that Hyrule has always been an island, we've just never been shown the ocean on a map until FSA?

That's more or less what I've been trying to say. Just because we don't see the water in the other games/maps doesn't mean it's not there. Every land mass is surrounded by water (in our world, at least). If the world that Hyrule inhabits is based off of our world (which it clearly is) then that would mean every land mass is surrounded by water whether we see it or not.

 

[Shade]

I don't know if this has been posted, but take a look at it nonetheless. I think there are some good points made as to which game fits where. I guess one of the problem I seem to have with the author though... is the whole "Centuries have passed" to almost every single game, when to be honest, I think some of them can be argued to be more connected in a smaller time frame and not "Another Link from another generation came about"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2g65jL3HDg

 

[Pinecove]

^I'll say it simply: It's bullcrap.

@the FSA map: FSA was made to connect itself to LoZ and AlttP by having a coast. Not TWW.

@Som: Do I have to do my schpeal on the FSA map again?

@Zemen: I'd appriciate it if you could reply to my PM.