QUOTE="Paranoid King, post: 1351921, member: 90759"]
I agree with this. I don't think everyone would lose if Ex dies, but I think it's possible that roles will stop working if they're lynched.
[/QUOTE]
I quoted this not because it is scummy but something he says later relating to it comes off scummy.
Because if we're going to vote someone out on the first day, I'd rather vote out someone who's not contributing.
Come to think of it though, the pinch hitters will probably step in if they stay inactive. That's not something I'm used to.
Off the top of my head. KoD, DW, and Minish lean town. Storm, Mint, Sean, and Rag lean scum. No opinion on Numbers, Echo, Jingo, or Soul, though that's mostly because I can't remember anything they've said. And Laur hasn't contributed.
This post started the whole thing with PK. He tossed out a bunch of reads with no explanations surrounding them. That isn’t what’s scummy thoughts it was his reaction to it.
Not necessarily. They confirmed their role. They just haven't said anything in the thread.
But I agree. Voting on Laur isn't useful.
Unvote: Laurentius
Vote: Mint
I do find this scummy but that’s because I find voting without giving a reason to be scummy. Also switching votes after being pressured for voting someone is usually a sign of feeling as if they were caught doing something scummy.
Could you explain the Mint vote? I don't think you gave any thoughts on them?
Why? I understand that I am in your scumreads, but what is your reasoning for it? What about the other three you scumread? Do you see all of us being of the same alignment? Why do you two read the people you town read?
As you can see Minish and I both questioned PK about the vote and I asked for more than just the reasons for the vote, wanting to understand
It's difficult to translate a vibe into concrete reasons, but let me give it a try.
The majority of your posts have been questions. Often those questions blow mischaracterize people's original positions into something more outlandish. For example, in your first post:
Not an unreasonable question, but the way it's phrased makes it an exaggeration of the position. It feels dishonest. A more honest way to ask would be something like, "Are you considering Dawn as mafia just because they're questioning you?" It's more directly relevant to the point at hand and doesn't assume as much.
Or here:
Again, they laid out their reasons why they think it is unlikely that mafia!KoD would do something like this. But the question has been mischaracterized to focus on how it's a bold move, rather than a move that requires them to follow up later. Of course mafia make bold moves. But that wasn't the point.
I don't think these questions are being consciously mischaracterized, but I think it still feels dishonest.
No, of course not. I generally don't try to guess every member of the mafia team simultaneously, before we have any confirmed info. But again, this feels like a mischaracterization that redirects away from actual reasons to be suspicious. Maybe it's just a tone difference, but that's why I'm suspicious of you.
I townread the people I do because they feel more honest about their discussion.
This was his answer to me and Minish. While he happily went into detail on me, he was vague and avoided details in his responses to my other questions.
Here's something interesting. Mafia don't necessarily win just by controlling the vote. I'm not sure if that means they might have more win conditions or if it means that items and abilities can change the balance of power there.
Which means there's a slim chance that they might need to lynch Exlight to win.
This is why I quoted that Exlight post. This looks like a subtle way to lynch Exlight, despite him being against it. Mafia I think more than anyone would want him lynched if it’ll stop roles because mafia would have even more of an advantage then. Roles give town an easier time finding mafia, and make it harder for mafia to kill town.
I bolded a line that comes off as a contradiction. After all how am I scummy for not doing something consciously?
Scum
Paranoid King - Kinda scummy? I don't know how I feel about the "I'm gonna buy 100% of everything"; a lot of people have given reasons for having everything on one person being bad; and further, I feel like promising to take it all assumes most of the other people buying are not on his team, which most likely means scum to me, though that's kinda tinfoily maybe. He also tossed out a readlist and never really elaborated on any of the reads except Mint, even though he was asked to explain why he townread his townreads. That said, I think he makes good points in his Mint reads about her questions seeming dishonest, but immediately saying that they don't seem to be so consciously makes it seem like he actually just thinks she's misreading things (which is what I'm inclined to believe), making his scumread on her seem more dishonest.
I quoted Dawn here as they are the first to point out the contradiction about intent and consciousness. And the fact that they also note how PK glossed over answering my questions.
@DawningWinds
Where was PKing asked about elaborating his reads? I would like to hear PKing speak before I say anything though. :|
Mint Elv asked him to explain why he townread the people he did, he never answered that question.
And he quoted said question in the post where he was detailing his read on Mint Elv, which makes it more egregious.
@DawningWinds he really did cut it lmao!!
View attachment 60081
VOTE: Paranoid King
I am still ok to lynching Storm but this is just too funny!!
Ignore those. Idk why I quoted them.
I did. I didn't go into detail, because it seemed like a question to draw attention away from themselves rather than because they were genuinely curious, but I did answer it.
I'm leery of voting for Storm for the same reason I switched off of Laurentus. They haven't contributed enough to let us learn anything from their death, and I don't think they've done anything egregious. Right now they're being voted on because (as far as I can tell) they planned to post observations and then didn't, and
Derp, post cut off.
I'm leery of voting for Storm for the same reason I switched off of Laurentus. They haven't contributed enough to let us learn anything from their death, and I don't think they've done anything egregious. Right now they're being voted on because (as far as I can tell) they planned to post observations and then didn't, and they expressed the opinion that people who talk more are more likely to be lynched.
Pot calling the kettle black.
For starters saying I tried to draw attention off myself, yet he spent so much time in a single post talking about me and tried to keep the attention off of himself and his random reads.
Also the accusations of mischaracterization and then doing the same thing with the Storm lynch.
It does not look like trying to draw attention from herself. She wanted to understand your reads, and such a vague description of towniness could be twisted to apply to anyone. And you were also asked to detail your other scumreads apparently (I missed that), which you did not do.
Quoted for the fact that Dawning also noticed the vague answers and lack of proper response.
It was obvious that they weren’t viewing Dawn in good light though. Why ask a pointless question instead of one that can get me more information? It’s like 20 questions. You want to ask stuff that covers a good amount, and yet at the same time answers several things at once.
What do you mean? I agree with dawning. This sounds like you’re contradicting yourself. If I’m attempting to be dishonest then how is it subconscious? Wouldn’t that have to be done consciously?
How is a misdirect? I point blank asked you why you suspect who you suspect. You have your answer for me, but not the others. And I don’t see how yo have mafia reads that were straight up arguing in thread but can’t answer if you see them possibly as a mafia team. Obviously you don’t have to be positive about how you think is the mafia team, but putting people in a scum read list without explanation and without imagining them as possibly working together seems way too strange.
How so? What does that mean? This isn’t my home site so I don’t know the meta here and what’s considered normal or not so I plan on asking questions to identify stuff like that.
such as, it common for players here to be so vague because you and seanze have been horrible about answering.
My response which is basically stuff that dawning pointed out, because we noticed the same things. I asked direct questions and he avoided answering all but one. And the one he answered he did so ina. Confusing way and contradicted himself during his answer.
This doesn’t answer the scum reading part from what I am seeing?
Well, if Storm really is Mafia, then we wouldn’t learn much from his death from interactions, but he would still be Mafia?
It is not just the observation comment, but that he made an excuse for not posting much which isn’t even true according to DW.
Souls response to PKs mischaracterization of the Storm case.
I do not think I understand what PK is saying 100 percent about the mischaracterisation and the dishonesty (i get dizzy thinking about it) - how I understand it is that PK thinks Mint Elv is not putting in the effort to understand the character so it is unfair (dishonest) to say what Mint Elv said, but not putting the effort doesn’t mean you are Mafia. He also seems very reserved about how he handles his reads and who to vote/attack so this approach is consistent with what he says about Laurentus and Storm now.
Idk why I have so many quotes of a confused soul. This is actually
Maybe. I prefer to ask specific questions that reflect the questionee's position as accurately as possible. You seem to prefer to ask more general questions that might mischaracterize their position.
I mean to say that there's a difference between a question being deliberately twisted in order to mischaracterize someone else and a question that does not represent what you're really thinking. I feel that the point of the questions was not to mischaracterize people. Any mischaracterization was done unintentionally or subconsciously.
But the questions still feel dishonest because they direct attention away from yourself by forcing people to restate their position, which makes them talk more about their position, which makes them more suspicious. Kinda like what I'm doing now.
Your entire post was defending yourself. Minish's entire post was asking me what I thought about you. So that was what I responded to. I didn't elaborate on why I put everyone else where they were because they aren't strong reads and it was irrelevant to explaining what I thought about you.
Maybe your questions haven't been specific enough. (See the first sentence of my response.) Rather than "What are your thoughts on everyone else in the game," try asking who my next most suspicious person is. I'll answer that one.
Again he contradicts himself. Stuff isn’t intentional but I’m being dishonest. There’s also the fact that he magically knows what’s going through my mind. And the fact that literally asking why he scumread who he scumread wasn’t direct enough, that I should be asking about them one by one.
Reexplaining things so other people can understand isn't really suspicious? If one person's not understanding there's the possibility that more people could be confused, so clarifying for the confused party is a good thing I'd think?
And that doesn't seem like it draws attention from her, if anything, it draws it to the party forcing the position to be repeated, i.e., Mint, as your demonstrating right now.
...what?
"I will say who my next scumread is only if asked." It's perfectly possible to answer the more general questions with the thoughts you have that you feel are relevant. "What are your thoughts on other players?" can be responded to with something like "My townreads are a, b, c, and d, because x. My other scumreads are e and f, with e being scummier than f because x. I don't have anything to share on everyone else." Or you can share that without being asked. You don't have to wait for someone ask you for exactly one read.
Just more of Dawning seeing the flaws. Dawning did a wonderful job of explain and pointing out contradictions in PKs posts and the ridiculousness of some of his answers.
That's fair. I might just be reading too much into things.
I'll swap my vote from Mint to Storm to stop any vote shenanigans that might get Ex lynched on the first day.
Unvote: Mint
Vote Storm
Another contradiction. Only after much pressure did he change his vote, because he realized his case on me didn’t make sense, similar to him switching off of Laurentus after pressure. Even worse is his switch to the Storm case he hadn’t agreed with before.
So you understand that we prefer different questions yet you are ironically mischarecterizing me by saying my choices are meant to mischarecterize. Also your kinds can do the same thing.
If it’s unintentional then how is that scummy? And how do you know what I am and am not thinking. For example I legitmely was curious if KoD was just going to scumread everyone that disagreed with them. I’ve seen people do that.
Is this your first mafia? Town, mafia, indep. No one wants attention on themselves
My post was partially defense sure but also pushing for more discussion from you.
How can I get more direct than why do you scumread your scumread? Seriously?
This was just my response to him and I don’t think I ever hit a response to this.
Hey, Storm's still alive. That's fun.
I'd guess they're either a slowpoke, so their death is delayed, or a pinata, so they can have the stuffing beaten out of them without falling apart. Or maybe they're something else that I can't think of.
Does anyone know what a Karateka is? The top result for me is an atari game, but that doesn't seem to be a character and I don't know what powers would come from that.
In regards to night stuff, I think the mafia kill is an action. If people take their actions and post quickly, mafia will be less able to plan out their kill based on the discussion in thread. I don't think it would be a good way to find mafia, because it means less action planning for townies and mafia can just choose their kills based on the day discussion. But I'm just brainstorming here.
Bid: Police Officer Badge: $1000
Actually, just thought of something. Let me place this bid before anyone bids secretly and I'll explain my thought process in a moment.
This police officer badge is a great item. The difficulty here comes in keeping track of it.
Town wants this item. It doesn't matter who gets it, it just matters that we know who has it. If mafia buys the badge, we lose track of it. Mafia also wants this item. But they don't want accountability for having the item. So they will bid secretly. But because I have bid all of my money on this item, if I don't end up with it, either Dawn or some other rich role bought it or mafia can share money. And if they buy it anyways, hey, mafia wasted $1001 on a useless item. It keeps the item from getting lost through a secret bid.
I know I'm not well trusted right now. So if I end up with the badge, I won't choose who to scan, I'll put it to a vote. Then I'll scan whoever is selected for the vote and let you know the result. At that point, killing me (or, hopefully, a scum scan), will validate the result. The hope is to keep this transparent and make it impossible for the badge to get lost.
I suppose a third option would be that mafia just kills me and gets rid of the item that way, but I hope I've got enough attention on me to avoid that.
I won't have any money after this, so I won't be buying anything for the foreseeable future, but hopefully this will keep things transparent.
And the cop check incident. I included this because it’s not town or mafia without more info. It was explained plenty in thread how this could have been done just for town cred and the public bid can always be a farce etc.
I don’t have the quotes here but I know some didn’t like his post talking about hoarding the items. That one didn’t bother me as much as I could understand the thought process.My case and scumread a come from his contradictions and lack of willingness to respond to direct questions. Also the fact that his voting history actually looks a bit wish washy and easily pushed.
