jamezrockz98
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What the question asks. I think there is a possibility that it could go inbetween Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks. What do you think?
Do You Think That LoZ and AoL Could Fit on the AT?
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Satsy
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In a word: No.
If there's only 100 years between PH and ST (long enough to establish communities, but short enough that Nico is still alive), and no Triforce (lost to Old Hyrule), it would make LoZ and AoL's placement confusing to say the least. With Ganondorf also pretty dead (and still human) at the bottom of the ocean as well, and the arrival and sudden disappearance of lots of towns, and even with turn-the-map tricks, little, if any, of AoL sits comfortably on the ST map, which would also mean LoZ wouldn't go, either... while the possibility is interesting, near as I can tell there's more that'd be against this idea than for.
If there's only 100 years between PH and ST (long enough to establish communities, but short enough that Nico is still alive), and no Triforce (lost to Old Hyrule), it would make LoZ and AoL's placement confusing to say the least. With Ganondorf also pretty dead (and still human) at the bottom of the ocean as well, and the arrival and sudden disappearance of lots of towns, and even with turn-the-map tricks, little, if any, of AoL sits comfortably on the ST map, which would also mean LoZ wouldn't go, either... while the possibility is interesting, near as I can tell there's more that'd be against this idea than for.
They can fit on the AT, but I think it's quite a stretch to place them within 100 years after WW. I used to place them after WW on the Great Sea, not New Hyrule, but that would require quite some time for the Great Deku Tree's plan to unfold. Plus Ganon and the Triforce pose problems. I think if they're on the AT, then some other game(s) (e.g. LttP) must also go there to set up for them, and all of that wouldn't fit before ST.
JuicieJ
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No. They take place in the original Hyrule, so they're not going to come before or after ST (especially seeing how Ganondorf is dead and dead for good after WW). And they definitely can't come before WW, seeing as Ganon is out in the open and there was a hero to stop him. That directly violates the backstory of WW. So it's really quite impossible for the first two games to go on the AT.
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I also don't think that LoZ and AoL can take place on the AT because of the absence of the Triforce in New Hyrule.
kaimason1
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I think Ganon doesn't really ever die; instead, he is banished over and over again back into the Dark World / Sacred Realm for 100 years at a time. I also think LoZ and AoL take place thousands of years after WW / TP, by which point New Hyrule could have easily been changed back to Hyrule. The Triforce could easily have returned to New Hyrule, and the Triforce of Courage could easily have been lost. Therefore, I think it's perfectly possible, and trying to place the two on either timeline is futile.
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Changed back to Hyrule? How? Many of the landmarks of old Hyrule simply aren't there in new Hyrule, so unless they just spring up out of nowhere, which there is no evidence for, Spirit Tracks is the only game that takes place in new Hyrule. I don't think there is anywhere for LoZ and AoL to fit on the Adult timeline, they can't go before Wind Waker because they have Ganon in them and the can't go after WW because old Hyrule is lost forever at that point.
kaimason1
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I personally think the name changed. Also, I know that LoZ doesn't actually have any 'monuments' - Sure, it has a mountain and a river, but so could New Hyrule. I've personally yet to really play AoL, so I can't say much for it, but if it does clearly share monuments with OoT / ALttP / TP, the three games I can think of in Hyrule, they could easily have been recreated in New Hyrule, either in a direct recreation or through subconscious cultural 'memories'.
JuicieJ
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First off, Ganondorf was completely mortal when he was stabbed by the Master Sword in WW. Any sword to the head would have killed him, and the Master Sword is definitely no exception. Just because it's the Master Sword doesn't mean it can only seal him. That's really downplaying the Master Sword. I mean, it's not just a magical item. It's still a blade. Second, Hyrule was completely flooded at the end of WW. The Great Sea isn't going to evaporate, meaning Hyrule isn't coming back. "New Hyrule" is also directly stated to be a separate land. Link, Tetra, and the rest of the crew found the land and it was (for some reason) given to them. This is why there are no staple features of Hyrule in "New Hyrule" (such as Death Mountain). Also take notice that there is only a 100 year time-span in-between PH and ST, which definitely wouldn't allow enough time for an the Great Sea to evaporate, even if it was possible. The Triforce also would probably have returned to the Sacred Realm. That's not confirmed, but, really, where else would it go? That's its resting place.
Anyway, not to be rude, but none of your arguments hold up at all.
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kaimason1
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NONE of those were my argument.
When I said that New Hyrule would become Hyrule, I meant in name only, and that over the years the 'New' could easily be dropped.
I know New Hyrule is separate from the original Hyrule, but the original could eventually be forgotten (it was already forgotten by most by WW) and the New be renamed.
I don't think Ganon fully leaves the Sacred Realm in Wind Waker; his Gerudo form could quite easily be an apparition of sorts, while his true boar form (His original banishment could have changed him immensely) stayed in the Sacred Realm. It was never explained how Ganon escaped the Sacred Realm in WW, and I think he never fully did. Thus, you destroy his conscious apparition, and he just returns to his banished form in the Sacred Realm.
I never argued that the great sea dried up. The inhabitants of New Hyrule could have moved away from the sea, bringing them to places slightly resembling their forgotten home. Death Mountain is not necessarily the same mountain as in Hyrule in Zelda 1 and 2; it could easily just be a coincidence, or a naming caused by the subconscious, or it could be named such by Ganon himself upon making it his base of operations.
The Triforce and Ganon could return to Hyrule through another entrance to the Sacred Realm. What would prevent other entrances from existing? In ALttP there are many entrances to the Dark World, and you can exit anywhere with the use of the magic mirror. Upon his return the Triforce would probably come with him.
Any reasons why any of this is incorrect? I haven't played every game, so I'm not an expert; also, I do not back the opinion that Zelda 1 and 2 do go on the AT, I'm just explaining why I think they could go on it. It is more likely, through Occam's Razor, that they go on the CT, unless there are reasons I am unaware of they don't seem to fit there either.
When I said that New Hyrule would become Hyrule, I meant in name only, and that over the years the 'New' could easily be dropped.
I know New Hyrule is separate from the original Hyrule, but the original could eventually be forgotten (it was already forgotten by most by WW) and the New be renamed.
I don't think Ganon fully leaves the Sacred Realm in Wind Waker; his Gerudo form could quite easily be an apparition of sorts, while his true boar form (His original banishment could have changed him immensely) stayed in the Sacred Realm. It was never explained how Ganon escaped the Sacred Realm in WW, and I think he never fully did. Thus, you destroy his conscious apparition, and he just returns to his banished form in the Sacred Realm.
I never argued that the great sea dried up. The inhabitants of New Hyrule could have moved away from the sea, bringing them to places slightly resembling their forgotten home. Death Mountain is not necessarily the same mountain as in Hyrule in Zelda 1 and 2; it could easily just be a coincidence, or a naming caused by the subconscious, or it could be named such by Ganon himself upon making it his base of operations.
The Triforce and Ganon could return to Hyrule through another entrance to the Sacred Realm. What would prevent other entrances from existing? In ALttP there are many entrances to the Dark World, and you can exit anywhere with the use of the magic mirror. Upon his return the Triforce would probably come with him.
Any reasons why any of this is incorrect? I haven't played every game, so I'm not an expert; also, I do not back the opinion that Zelda 1 and 2 do go on the AT, I'm just explaining why I think they could go on it. It is more likely, through Occam's Razor, that they go on the CT, unless there are reasons I am unaware of they don't seem to fit there either.
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JuicieJ
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The beast form is not a separate being. Ganondorf is Ganon. They're the same, just not at the same time. Just like Wolf Link. Still Link, just transformed.
Those entrances were also in the original Hyrule, which is a land cut off from all the rest. It's the only land to host the Hylians, the closest race to the gods. It's basically the Holy Land of The Legend of Zelda. In other words, entrances to the Sacred Realm aren't going to be anywhere else.
kaimason1
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Nothing actually says that those are the only entrances; Additionally, there was one at Death Mountain, which easily could have become Dragon Roost Island in Wind Waker; thus, Ganon could return, were he to survive.
Also, Ganon is extremely powerful by this point. What is to say he hasn't come out as an apparition, a more ghostly form, in Wind Waker? He doesn't become his pig form, which we saw as his most powerful form from OoT. Instead, he uses puppets. He is extremely powerful (enough that the goddesses would destroy the, as you call it, Holy Land), and yet doesn't display this in battle. I think this points toward the fact that he has not yet completely left the Sacred Realm.
Also, Ganon is extremely powerful by this point. What is to say he hasn't come out as an apparition, a more ghostly form, in Wind Waker? He doesn't become his pig form, which we saw as his most powerful form from OoT. Instead, he uses puppets. He is extremely powerful (enough that the goddesses would destroy the, as you call it, Holy Land), and yet doesn't display this in battle. I think this points toward the fact that he has not yet completely left the Sacred Realm.
My thoughts: No. And for many reasons why.
1. Absence of the Spirit Tracks
If these games were to follow up on Spirit Tracks, then where are the rails themselves? I'm sure that they can't just magically disappear, nor the tall Tower of Spirits. Let's face it, if they took place in New Hyrule, the Spirit Tracks cannot be left out.
2. Geography
I can see this from many angles. As a first matter, New Hyrule is separated into four distinct realms that don't resemble Hyrule from LoZ and AoL at all. Furthermore, these two games share distinct geographic features unique to Old Hyrule. Take, for example, Death Mountain. It is not and will not be a part if New Hyrule.
3. The Triforce
As stated many times above, how would the Triforce reach New Hyrule, and how was Ganon resurrected? There are too many facts and loopholes to fit this scenario on the AT.
1. Absence of the Spirit Tracks
If these games were to follow up on Spirit Tracks, then where are the rails themselves? I'm sure that they can't just magically disappear, nor the tall Tower of Spirits. Let's face it, if they took place in New Hyrule, the Spirit Tracks cannot be left out.
2. Geography
I can see this from many angles. As a first matter, New Hyrule is separated into four distinct realms that don't resemble Hyrule from LoZ and AoL at all. Furthermore, these two games share distinct geographic features unique to Old Hyrule. Take, for example, Death Mountain. It is not and will not be a part if New Hyrule.
3. The Triforce
As stated many times above, how would the Triforce reach New Hyrule, and how was Ganon resurrected? There are too many facts and loopholes to fit this scenario on the AT.
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kaimason1
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1. I think after sufficient time, on the order of one or two thousand years as I have argued before, the Spirit Tracks could be gone; regardless, my explanation for 2. explains this.
2. In LoZ, at least, there aren't any villages or signs of human life other than the dungeons, the graveyard, the player, the shops, and the kooky old people in caves. To me, it looks like civilization does not exist in this region. In AoL, we have many small towns, though it seems the map has moved northwest; Death Mountain moves from North to South east. These towns, for the most part, seem to be named after the memory (possibly subconscious) of the sages in OoT. This would never have happened in the CT. It would appear that LoZ and AoL focus on people who have migrated north and/or west from the original location of New Hyrule. A mountain named 'Death' isn't really necessarily all that unique; it simply indicates a particularly treacherous mountain. In fact, in TP, Death Mountain is in the west - in LoZ it's in the north. It could easily be in New Hyrule.
3. I already stated that Ganon need not be resurrected, as he never necessarily died. If he were to follow civilization, he could easily make it out of the Sacred Realm through New Hyrule, though it would take him a long time (thus his lack of a reappearance in PH or ST). If he escaped, the Triforce would probably come with him, separated among Ganon, Link, and Zelda yet again. The missing piece of the Triforce in LoZ could easily be explained in this way, as in such a journey the third piece could easily be lost. Alternatively, Ganon manages to capture the third piece in LoZ because he kidnaps Zelda early in this game, instead of near the very end. That might give him enough time to forcibly remove it from her. He might then bring the third piece back to the Sacred Realm where he is still stuck in part; this gives him the power to take boar form back in Hyrule (which has lost the 'New' by this point).
2. In LoZ, at least, there aren't any villages or signs of human life other than the dungeons, the graveyard, the player, the shops, and the kooky old people in caves. To me, it looks like civilization does not exist in this region. In AoL, we have many small towns, though it seems the map has moved northwest; Death Mountain moves from North to South east. These towns, for the most part, seem to be named after the memory (possibly subconscious) of the sages in OoT. This would never have happened in the CT. It would appear that LoZ and AoL focus on people who have migrated north and/or west from the original location of New Hyrule. A mountain named 'Death' isn't really necessarily all that unique; it simply indicates a particularly treacherous mountain. In fact, in TP, Death Mountain is in the west - in LoZ it's in the north. It could easily be in New Hyrule.
3. I already stated that Ganon need not be resurrected, as he never necessarily died. If he were to follow civilization, he could easily make it out of the Sacred Realm through New Hyrule, though it would take him a long time (thus his lack of a reappearance in PH or ST). If he escaped, the Triforce would probably come with him, separated among Ganon, Link, and Zelda yet again. The missing piece of the Triforce in LoZ could easily be explained in this way, as in such a journey the third piece could easily be lost. Alternatively, Ganon manages to capture the third piece in LoZ because he kidnaps Zelda early in this game, instead of near the very end. That might give him enough time to forcibly remove it from her. He might then bring the third piece back to the Sacred Realm where he is still stuck in part; this gives him the power to take boar form back in Hyrule (which has lost the 'New' by this point).