K
kvdse
Guest
do you think that ganondorf is a descendant of demise???
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Well when you say descendant, it sounds as though he is the great great grandson or something, and it does not happen like that, as far as I know Demise is not able to reproduce the way we do. It is heavily implied that the hatred of Demise is reborn within Ganondorf at a later stage, explaining why Ganondorf's goals are almost identical to demise's, but Ganondorf is still a Gerudo and his parents would have been Gerudo.
JuicieJ
SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Demise is sealed inside the Master Sword. It's kind of difficult to have a descendant when this sort of thing has happened. So, in short, no.
Libk
Spaceballs: The Mafia Player
Not a descendant at all, just the reincarnation of Demise, as demise said he would be reincarated into a human being and Link's descendants would be cursed with having to deal with him forever.
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2008
Demise wasn't sealed within the Master Sword. He was absorbed, yeah, but not for the purpose of keeping him trapped, but to dissolve him entirely.
That said, Demise established that he can't completely die, and I don't think you can even say it was strongly implied that Ganondorf is the incarnation of his hatred that he referred to. That's just clearly what they intended to say. You can also theorize that Demise actually more directly reincarnates into Ganondorf. But either way, he's not a straight descendant, no (but it's probably good you asked that, specifically, in the title, to avoid spoilers for people).
Fi actually establishes that Demise exists, to some degree, out of time. He himself confirms this; the area in the past was just after Demise had been sealed, but when he's released by Ghirahim he talks about being "sealed for all these years" (I'm paraphrasing), a statement which makes no sense unless he was aware of his time leading up to the present.
Fi said:
Also, just prior to his statements about an "incarnation of his hatred", he words it differently:
Demise said:
A cycle? has this happened before? This indicates him "conquering time itself" and "appearing differently in each epoch", the latter statement in particular standing out because it was never really covered outside of Fi's line. Demise is just Demise. There's The Imprisoned, yeah, but that wasn't a different appearance, that was just him in an incomplete, sealed form (and it appeared in the past anyway), so I think that this language is still applied to his "cycle", and I think this indicates a strong possibility that he actually reincarnates as Ganon. He also says "I will rise again!", which wouldn't mean much if not for it directly conflicting with the wording of this in the rest of the dialogue, where he does the "incarnation of my hatred" crap. He's directly saying he will return. Could still be referring to his power, but it seems different to me. It's not absolutely proven, but there's enough for me to stand by it.
Demise said:
Well, I believe Demise is the personification of the end (of the world) in the Zelda universe. His Japanese name, Shuuen no Mono ((Person) of the End) might attest to this. Whenever the case of an end-scenario occurs in the world of Zelda,
Demise's hair looks like Koume's flame hair.
Demise's German name, Der Todbringer, roughly translates to the Hellcannons in English. lol
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JuicieJ
SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Oh, right. I misspoke when I said that. My bad.
Are you suggesting that Ganon is Demise's hatred instead of Ganondorf transforming out of will? I don't see why that would be the case. The Triforce of Power keeps Ganondorf alive after being mortally wounded, which is why he didn't die after being crushed under his tower in OoT. He transformed into that pig-beast as a last-ditch effort to defeat Link. He transformed out of will in TP, too. Otherwise, why would he himself be the final fight instead of the beast form? It seems to me the "hatred" being reincarnated is just why Ganondorf is so evil, powerful, and bent on getting the Triforce (and why he keeps coming back again and again). If I'm mistaken in what you mean, let me know.
Aero_Dynamic
エアロダイナミック
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Sorry if this has been stated before, but i'm pretty sure Ganondorf and many other dark enemies are reincarnations of Demise's hatred.
Ganondorf is most certainly no descendant to Demise. To my belief he has come in form of several malignant entities, numerous times as the more nefarious Ganon. There also is Malladus, who disguised himself as Chancellor Cole, and looked a lot like Pig Ganon. Borrowing from Axle's quote of Fi, Demise has "conquered time"; therefore I don't think it should apply to him. His "hatred" appears throughout staggered generations, reincarnated but no less depraved. Sometimes he requires others to revive him, such as Twinrova in the OoX games, I believe. But out of Time he cannot die, and will keep up his recurring malevolence someway he is utterly obliterated.
Other foes such as Vaati and Bellum just so happen to be great beings of power, but probably to a lesser degree than Demise's manifestations. Maybe they once were monsters birthed from his power, or not. A game explaining this, in addition to the Demon King's origin, would be intriguing.
Other foes such as Vaati and Bellum just so happen to be great beings of power, but probably to a lesser degree than Demise's manifestations. Maybe they once were monsters birthed from his power, or not. A game explaining this, in addition to the Demon King's origin, would be intriguing.
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- Nov 26, 2008
I like your description of Demise as the "personification of the end of the world", because that really solidifies the demon theme. That really is what Demise was like, because he wanted to take the whole world and tear it down, and later "Demon Kings", like Ganon and Malladus (should you choose to believe Malladus relates to Demise as well, which I do), also do this (especially Malladus). It also matches right up with the concept of the Devil, who wants to destroy the world or at least supposedly is supposed to do so eventually. I think Demise is a demon in the same kind of way, he's the original, ultimate evil of the Zelda universe. At least until Nintendo decides to retcon him in a prequel. :bleh:
Ya, you're way off. Lol. None of this has to do with what I was saying; I'm only using "Ganon" as a shortened version of Ganondorf. In my opinion, the Ganondorf backstory dealt with in Skyward Sword with Demise pretty much kills any argument that Ganon is somehow a separate entity from Ganondorf.
I think you actually put this better than I did. He's conquered it. He's defeated it. He can break all rules and restrictions relating to it.
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M
MOTOVRES
Guest
Like what some here and elsewhere on teh Net have said, I do not believe he is the "Reincarnation". To me that would be a huge slap in the face to the fans.
I think it's very telling that it's a mysterious, incredibly strong evil force of HATRED that resides in The Master Sword that attracts Ganon in the first place. It is his greed for Power that drives him, after all.
And though he learns the legend of the Triforce and seeks to claim it (and in some cases DOES), I think they showed that by containing Demise in The Master Sword they were also cursing it.
I believe his Gerudo-born backstory still holds firm.
I think it's very telling that it's a mysterious, incredibly strong evil force of HATRED that resides in The Master Sword that attracts Ganon in the first place. It is his greed for Power that drives him, after all.
And though he learns the legend of the Triforce and seeks to claim it (and in some cases DOES), I think they showed that by containing Demise in The Master Sword they were also cursing it.
I believe his Gerudo-born backstory still holds firm.
T
TriforceofTwili
Guest
Yes. At the very end, when Demise says "A reincarnation of my hatred will haunt your decendants for the rest of time" or something like that, it was DEFINITELY refering to Ganondorf. So Ganondorf is a reincarnation of Demise. It seems pretty straight forward to me.
guapo2003
The incomparable legend
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I really don't think Ganondorf is a descendant, but I'm pretty sure somewhere I read he was a reincarnation of Demise.
T
TriforceofTwili
Guest
He was the single male Gerudo born every hundred years, but he is also an incarnation of Demise's hatred that Demise mentioned at the end of Skyward Sword. If you have played Skyward Sword, and payed attention to what Demise says at the end, this should be very clear
Being a reincarnation and a descendant are two different things. Descendant, as in being a blood relative many generations later? No. Reincarnation, having some of Demise's evil soul and hatred within him? Yes.