Could Malladus Be Another Incarnation of Demise?

[Mucrush]

I was just thinking of this, since they're both called Demon Kings and both are evil minded. Also, they both got red eyes with a yellow pupil and Malladus could just as well as Ganon be another incarnation. There could be a connection, what do you guys think? Also, first time here at the forums. I wanted to find a place where I could discuss this idea with some ^^

 

[Azure Sage]

I really doubt it. Both of them being Demon Kings is kind of a weak argument, considering its such a generic term for a villain. And just because they have similar eyes doesn't mean anything. I'm sorry, but that's a terrible thing to base a theory on. I've heard lots of people mention how Malladus and Ganon look similar, but once again, that doesn't mean anything. Besides, it's pretty much accepted that Ganondorf is the reincarnation of Demise's hatred who follows Link throughout many generations. Malladus, back when he was sealed away by the Spirits of Light-- the whole basis for the backstory of Spirit Tracks-- had absolutely nothing to do with Link, since it happened hundreds of years before Link ever arrived at the country that later becomes New Hyrule. So, I don't think they're connected.

 

[Dio]

Well Nintendo's statements seem to suggest Demise was specifically intended to look like and foreshadow Ganon specifically. It says in hyrule historia, ''Even though Ganon is defeated time and time again, he is evil incarnate and will come back time and time again,with a vengeance.'' Demise being evil itself and Ganon its incarnation would suggest other evils do not share this same connection.

Malladus is a blue floating skull, he looks nothing like Ganon or Demise. He only becomes a horned read headed monster looking similar to Ganon due to his posession of the red-headed horned Chancellor Cole.

Nothing Nintendo have said in interviews or in Hyrule Historia suggest Demise has a special connection to any other villain but Ganon/dorf.

 

[Justac00lguy]

I don't think people should jump so quickly on this theory... Regarding the little information given within the series; subtle information such as you posted is sometimes the only thing we can base our theories on.

Now Ganon(dorf) is the only person to truly hold the term "Demon King", Ghirahim self proclaims him as the "Lord". However he hasn't earned the title so to say. It's also important to note that Ganon(dorf) only earns this title when claiming the Triforce of Power - thus he turns into his all powerful beast form.

However, what exactly does the term "Demon King" mean? Well it's the ruler of Demons of course; however, Ganon's usual army is made up of the incarnations and diverse forms of "Blins" e.g Bokoblins, Moblins, Miniblins and Bulblins. Now these races aren't demons, let's look at the definition of a demon:

Demon--> An evil spirit or devil, esp. one thought to possess a person or act as a tormentor in hell.

Now i like this definition more than the others given; now we also know of a so called "Demon Army" - this was Demise's army showcased by a specific number of figures seen in the prologue to Skyward Sword. Based off "loose" theory, Ghirahim bears resemblance to one of these figures. Disregarding this loose evidence though and we still know that Ghirahim served Demise and fits the definition of a demon down to a tee.

So the title "Demon King" bears a lot of significance in my eyes, now one can easily notice the comparisons between Malladus and Ganondorf, especially while in Beast form. Although the giant floating head--as someone earlier mentioned--also bears resemblance to the floating head figure we saw in Twilight Princess . This form of both beings seem to be more of a spiritual adaptation rather than a true physical form, Malladus was probably weakened, that is why he needed to posses someone in order to return to his true form.

I would say that Malladus is in fact another incarnation of the hatred of Demise simply because the arguments before are much greater than the arguments against. Ganondorf was killed in The Wind Waker, so this could warrant a new incarnation as Demise explains himself his hate never perishes. However, one could argue this with the new incarnation of Ganondorf in Four Swords Adventures. To counter this argument though, the Gerudo Race were still very much evident on the Child Timeline, yet on the Adult Timeline they seem to have diminished, so this would mean that a new Ganondorf wouldn't have been able to be born. All in all, a very plausible theory and I'm sure many people have made such connections before but I guess it will never be explained where exactly Malladus originated from.

 

[Dancing redead]

ganon and malladus are almost definitly connected in some way or other. The theory that they are both incarnations of demise is certainly plausible and it does seem like too much of coincidence that they both become hog like beasts and they also both seem to need to posses the body of Zelda to revive themselves. I for one believe this theory.

 

[r2d93]

I thought it was confirmed that Demise is the source of all evil in the Zelda universe...

Pretty much every evil baddy is an incarnation of Demise's hatred (according to Mases)
The curse says that an incarnation of his hatred shall follow those with the spirit of the Hero and the blood of the Goddess. This refers to every Link and every Zelda... so unless this curse was randomly broken for no reason, ST Link and Zelda fall victim to this curse as well

 

[TriforceDragon]

I thought it was confirmed that Demise is the source of all evil in the Zelda universe...

Pretty much every evil baddy is an incarnation of Demise's hatred (according to Mases)
The curse says that an incarnation of his hatred shall follow those with the spirit of the Hero and the blood of the Goddess. This refers to every Link and every Zelda... so unless this curse was randomly broken for no reason, ST Link and Zelda fall victim to this curse as well

I will agree with that somewhat. I think Malladus himself probably precedes the curse as he threatened the land before Tetra and Link reached what became new Hyrule, thus him probably not being born from the curse. However I think Chancelor Cole's appearance within new Hyrule and the steady weakening of the seals was a direct result of the curse of Demise at work.

Off course there is no exact basis for this idea, but I would consider it a logical conclusion if we assume the curse of Demise is still at work, which we have no reason not to assume.

Though that curse kind of creates a strange circular loop when paired with Hylia's blessing from the HH manga story. Demise curse will haunt Spirit of the Hero and the bloodline of the Goddess, but each will also be reborn if Hyrule is in danger...so is it the curse striking that causes Link and Zelda to appear in their heroic incarnations or is it their reappearance that triggers the curse and thus endangering the land?

Just fun thoughts.

 

[Locke]

I think Malladus himself probably precedes the curse as he threatened the land before Tetra and Link reached what became new Hyrule, thus him probably not being born from the curse. However I think Chancelor Cole's appearance within new Hyrule and the steady weakening of the seals was a direct result of the curse of Demise at work.

It's been a while since I've discussed this theory so I don't have all the facts, but what of the possibility of the region once being connected to Hyrule long ago? The Lokomo bear striking similarities to the Sages, and they seemed to welcome Zelda as ruler of the land quite readily. One does not simply travel to a far-away land and "establish a kingdom" over the indigenous peoples without conquering them in some way, which evidently didn't happen. With this connection, the legend of Malladus could very well be tied to the legend of Demise. (though tbh the connection really isn't necessary).

 

[ihateghirahim]

I don't think it's likely. He is more likely a unique villain. He has no apparent connection to Demise. He has his own name and even a follower unlike his first one. I think he's a unique enemy.

 

[Sir Quaffler]

I also thought Demise was confirmed to be the force behind every monster in the Zelda universe (except for Majora, being in an alternate dimension).

Every big baddie that comes up after Demise's curse at the end of SS is an incarnation of his hatred. Unless Malladus can be confirmed to be older than even that, I see no reason for doubting Malladus's connection to Demise. And I highly doubt that, seeming as how Demise's curse started near the very beginning of the timeline, 1000 or more years before even the establishment of Hyrule.

Also, and I actually do need help with this part: Does Demise's curse have to be limited to one being at a time? Like, if immediately after his death in SS, he decided to reincarnate as Malladus but then becomes trapped in the ground, that the hatred of Demise decides "Screw this guy, he's useless to me now. I'm gonna reincarnate as a purple Minish dude." Is Demise's hatred bound to a particular being until it dies, or can it hop on over to another being if the first is incapacitated in some way. After all, "an incarnation of my hatred shall ever follow your kind". If that reincarnation is sealed away or whatever, and the people live prosperously for all time due to the evil in the universe being trapped forever, wouldn't that go against Demise's curse?

 

[Random Person]

He could be, but I think not. Despite some beliving Demise's "curse" to include every major Zelda villain, I believe SS was specifically hinting towards Ganondorf and ONLY Ganondorf. (What with Demise looking almost exactly like him and all). Plus, take into consideration that Malladus comes from New Hyrule, a land which originally did not have Hylians. It's not necessarily impossible, but highly unlikely that he's another Demise incarnation.

 

[Sir Quaffler]

He could be, but I think not. Despite some beliving Demise's "curse" to include every major Zelda villain, I believe SS was specifically hinting towards Ganondorf and ONLY Ganondorf. (What with Demise looking almost exactly like him and all). Plus, take into consideration that Malladus comes from New Hyrule, a land which originally did not have Hylians. It's not necessarily impossible, but highly unlikely that he's another Demise incarnation.

Hmm... I'm not gonna outright deny what you've said, but I am curious how you take the line that Demise looks different to everyone who sees him. Of course, the most obvious look-alike would be Ganondorf, but in other eras where Ganondorf is absent Demise could, due to his ambiguous nature, end up looking quite different in his reincarnations. Even to Groose, Impa, and the others, he looked quite different from what Link saw (even though we don't know what they personally saw), so even on the looks department I find the nature of Demise hinting towards only Ganondorf questionable.

 

[OcarinistOfTime]

I feel like the fact that Demise is supposed to appear differently to each pair of eyes of sees him lends great strength to this theory and even connecting Vaati and the upcoming Yuga. I feel like that was their intention by giving Demise that trait.

 

[Chiraku]

I think he's more of a nod to Ganon than anything. Spirit Tracks was a bit more Genre savvy than the other games, so why not throw in a reference for long-time fans?

 

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

I think I've come to accept that "demon lords" have a nasty habit of just showing up in the Zelda universe.

When it comes to a game like Spirit Tracks, and a villain like Malladus... I'm inclined to believe that Demise's curse didn't create him. From what I could tell from Skyward Sword, Demise was going to reincarnate himself as the beast/being Ganondorf, and torture the likes of the royal Hylian/Hero line forever. It seems pretty specific, and when you look at the timeline, you can tell that Ganondorf/Ganon has a very commanding influence in a vast majority of the series' games. Add that to the fact that Demise was obviously designed to bear significant resemblance to Ganondorf, and I think that's exactly what he becomes - Ganondorf.

One thing that did strike me, in regard to Malladus being a demon lord, is that Demise apparently commanded an entire army of demons against Hylia at one point. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but would it be too impossible to suggest that maybe Malladus was one of the more major demons that Demise controlled at some point? It could be possible that he was part of Demise's army at a place close to what would very far down the line become New Hyrule, and that the story of Malladus' first defeat was him being defeated in the initial war against Hylia, and being sealed then? I haven't fully beaten ST, but the possible ties to Demise/SS is enough to get me interested, so if I get this back story wrong, please forgive me.