First off because I forgot to do this earlier: Locke64 I have the WW death quote you requested.
Bihldorff: I mean, recently we just recently met with the ESRB and talked about Ocarina of Time, and that had some dicey moments, whether or not it was going to get an E, you know, the original one where Ganondorf pukes out all that blood at the end, and then you end up ramming your sword down the pig's throat, you know, when he transforms, and it's not exactly non-violent, and if you imagine a scene like that with vastly improved realistic graphics, I think that'd probably be in the T range.
Trinen: We're really good about working with them too, like, the way submission works, you're basically supposed to send them a video tape of basically the most violent or reprehensible content in the game, and we let them know about the scene in the end where you finally defeat Ganondorf.
Bihldorff: Late, though. We had to tack that on...
Trinen: Did we? I thought we did that at the same time.
Bihldorff: We did an early submission on that, and then we saw that, and were like, "whoa...!"
Trinen: And we saw that and thought that was pretty intense there, and so we showed that to them, and they looked at that and took it into consideration based on the look of the game and how much of the game that represents in terms of the overall gameplay.
Bihldorff: There was no blood, and he turned to stone, and died. They took all that into account.
Trinen: You're not supposed to... you gave the whole thing away, Nate! (laughs)
PGC: Okay, do you guys have anything you want to say in closing?
Trinen: (whispers) Zelda rocks!
Source.
DuckNoises said:
Secondly, this business about Ganondorf and Zant splitting their souls like something out of a Harry Potter book isn't confirmed by the game.
Zant is what the Japanese call an "omniyouji". An omniyouji is sort of like a wizard who works for the Royal Family and often inherits the throne from them which would explain why Zant was expecting to have the throne and not Midna as in Japanese history, females don't usually inherit the throne.
Another aspect of an omniyouji is that while they can cast spells using magic, they don't necessarily have the ability to put their spells to use which is why they need to bind their soul with that of a god in order to have the powers necessary for casting their spells and using their magic. This happens to Zant when he sees Ganondorf and thinks that he is a god. Zant and Ganondorf become 'soul-bound' so that Zant can use Ganondorf's powers and Ganondorf can use Zant's powers.
However, because an omniyouji and a god are soul-bound, their lives depend on one another. If one dies, then the other needs to revive them. If the one that died refuses to be revived, then the other can easily die as well. This is what happens at the end of TP. Zant is dead and then Link delivers a fatal blow to Ganondorf who then turns to Zant hoping to revive him which would save them both. But Zant refuses to be revived (symbolized by Zant breaking his neck), resulting in Ganondorf dying as well.
Mosley said:
His Triforce piece faded. You don't know the nature of what that meant. It probably meant he lost it, so I'll agree on that.
I always assumed the Master Sword (being the blade of evil's bane) blocked it out.
But okay we agree on one issue.
The symbolism with Zant is questionable. You nor anyone else has the true answer to why that scene displayed what it did.
Explained above in response to DuckNoises.
He was stabbed through his weak point as Beast Ganon multiple times with the Master Sword and he kept going. Not trying to downgrade that it is in fact the weaker point on his body, but I'm just saying.
We face beast Ganon as wolf link...
Regardless however the sword went all the way through in the final battle whereas Twilight Beast Ganon was not stabbed all the way through, and in general more - sliced and/or cut than stabbed.
I'm not completely disagreeing with him possibly dying... Well, actually I am... But more ore less I'm getting sick and tired of people throwing around theories here that are not facts. New people come to this site every day and lots of them read up on timelines. Some people like to come on here and talk about their own theory like its a fact which, if one of those new people read it that way, they would believe it as fact. Everyone should be entitled to their own opinion and we should state things as they are, as theories, and merely as possibilities to another solution.
O I definitely agree, it's just I believe you're wrong.
And I don't see how they can be different. Both had the same name. In TP, Ganondorf lost power. In FSA, he is trying to regain it. He transforms into a pig/beast named Ganon like he did in TP and OoT. I don't see how you can consider it a different man when he is exactly the same.
And you believe this Ganon is the same Ganon as from the Seal War?
Sorry Mosley, but the debate ends here.
The Seal War manual (Japanese translation by the way so no wiggling out of this one) says Ganon was "born" when he touched the Triforce during the seal war:
SNES Japanese ALttP Manual Translation said:
ハイラルをおびやかした邪悪の王ガノンは、まさにこの時、誕生したのです。
At this time the evil King Ganon, who threatened Hyrule, was born.
"Tanjyou" means birth, or beginning of something new.
Now Ganon became a "maou" when he touched the Triforce, (and we can't deny he didn't get the entire Triforce for the seal war or that this is referring to something else or that the seal war doesn't come directly before ALttP with the same Ganon because we know it does because of original intent) and the evil king Ganon was "born" as a maou. The problem is however that Ganondorf was ALREADY a maou in Twilight Princess.
So in other words, your theory directly contradicts ALttP's manual which states the seal war was the birth of the maou Ganonrather than your theory which asumes the maou Ganon must have been born twice (even though from translation notes we know this was the beginning of something new).
Try to get out of that...
Mosley said:
he last time you came up with that cadaveric spasm excuse, it was because you looked it up on wikipedia.
Actually I've known about cadaveric spasm for a long time, but I didn't know you were in medical school so I brought Wikipedia as proof.
but this is about the third or fourth time that you have brought the same excuse up to me and I've given you the same reasoning for why it doesn't work. I'm getting tired of having to re-explain myself every time I make a post
This is the first time we have properly had this debate though as every time you made those responses I responded back to get no response from you in the first place!
Regardless ,we're having this discussion now (well...actually I see it more as a victory after my last big point.)
The horse thing, yes, it does take muscle strength. But the spasm only occurs in the area of physical assertion JUST BEFORE death. Like, if someone was being killed, fighting for their life and holding onto something.... If a cadaveric spasm were to occur, this person would die and continue holding onto the object. Ganondorf was not using his legs during the last battle. He was actually just walking around which seemed to me like it would rest his legs from riding the horse before if anything.
Sword fighting (from what I've discovered during my fencing lessons) actually requires a TON of bending of the knees. Not only that but Ganondorf DID charge and hold his ground against you in what is called a "push off" (when you had to tap A really fast...)
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