Spoiler Common Theory Breakdown: One or More Ganons?

[Pinecove]

During the time when the manual was created, the idea of OoT Ganondorf had not been conceived, and therefore ALttP would have been the next earliest time that Ganondorf transformed into Ganon. The manual was accurate at the time, but it says things that are now contradictory to what has since been established as the earliest version of Ganondorf.

Actually, when OoT was created it WAS the seal war, so the manual was STILL accurate.

Regardless, Ganon already existed as Ganondorf beforehand in the back story of ALttP. The game suggests this, and so does the sentence you've written above that I've quoted. It can't be referring to a literal birth, because that would mean that ALttP Ganondorf is not ALttP Ganon, which is contradictory to what ALttP says.

/facepalm

It's refering to Ganondorf's birth as a maou (Demon King) for the first time.

Ganondorf the theif is not a moau.

 

[MrMosley]

@ Pinecove... I knew the manual stated that. I also know that the manual is about 15 years old and that piece of evidence could have easily been contradicted by now, especially seeing as how the connections between FSA and ALttP make it seem like Ganon had to have escaped the Four Sword first, reverted back to Ganondorf, then came upon the Seal War later. So this really "wins" nothing for you in the debate.

One of the main aspects of ALttP was to show how Ganon came to be in LoZ. It detailed who he was before and how he turned into what he was. Basically, it said he was a man who became a beast/pig by touching and wishing upon the Triforce. In ALttP's backstory, Ganondorf was transformed to reflect his heart. Just like in OoT, TP, and FSA before it, in ALttP, Ganondorf had acquired some form of power that allowed him to unleash his inner-beast. ALttP simply made it so this inner-beast became somewhat of his new, permanent form. Ganon was born in ALttP's backstory because as far as anyone knows, Ganondorf (the man) is never shown in any game after.

So... OoT- Ganondorf has the Triforce of Power, which allows him to transform into a variation of Ganon. TP- Ganondorf again has the Triforce of Power, allowing him to transform into another variation of Ganon. FSA- Ganondorf has the Trident of Power, allowing him to transform into another variation of Ganon. ALttP- Ganon wishes upon the Triforce, transforming the Sacred Realm into the Dark World and everything in it into monsters, while transforming Ganondorf himself into that which his heart reflects (his inner beast), which is still a variation of a pig/beast. This is when Ganon becomes "stuck" in this form. My timeline suggests that after ALttP, titles with Ganon that would follow would be LoZ and OoX, both of which show this variant of pig Ganon. Ganondorf no longer exists after ALttP's BS.

 

[Pinecove]

@ Pinecove... I knew the manual stated that. I also know that the manual is about 15 years old and that piece of evidence could have easily been contradicted by now, especially seeing as how the connections between FSA and ALttP make it seem like Ganon had to have escaped the Four Sword first, reverted back to Ganondorf, then came upon the Seal War later. So this really "wins" nothing for you in the debate.

19 years old. But that doesn't change the fact that we have a 2007 re-release of ALttP which clearly states that the sages power weakened over time resulting in the maidens we see in ALttP. This STILL clearly contradicts the Seal war coming in between FSA and ALttP because FSA ALREADY features shrine maidens.

One of the main aspects of ALttP was to show how Ganon came to be in LoZ. It detailed who he was before and how he turned into what he was. Basically, it said he was a man who became a beast/pig by touching and wishing upon the Triforce. In ALttP's backstory, Ganondorf was transformed to reflect his heart. Just like in OoT, TP, and FSA before it, in ALttP, Ganondorf had acquired some form of power that allowed him to unleash his inner-beast. ALttP simply made it so this inner-beast became somewhat of his new, permanent form. Ganon was born in ALttP's backstory because as far as anyone knows, Ganondorf (the man) is never shown in any game after.

Now you're just confusing me. What does this have to do with the conversation at hand? Hell, how does ALttP Ganon =LoZ Ganon anyways?

So... OoT- Ganondorf has the Triforce of Power, which allows him to transform into a variation of Ganon. TP- Ganondorf again has the Triforce of Power, allowing him to transform into another variation of Ganon. FSA- Ganondorf has the Trident of Power, allowing him to transform into another variation of Ganon. ALttP- Ganon wishes upon the Triforce, transforming the Sacred Realm into the Dark World and everything in it into monsters, while transforming Ganondorf himself into that which his heart reflects (his inner beast), which is still a variation of a pig/beast. This is when Ganon becomes "stuck" in this form. My timeline suggests that after ALttP, titles with Ganon that would follow would be LoZ and OoX, both of which show this variant of pig Ganon. Ganondorf no longer exists after ALttP's BS.

Once again, I fail to see how this is relevant to the topic at hand.

 

[Satsy]

The entire point of explaining how Ganondorf became Ganon in aLttP would be because at the time of LttP's release it was stated to be set before LoZ and AoL. Following that it shows a progression of Ganon (as a man, as a demon, slaughtered, and the attempted resurrection). Even if you don't believe some of the other Ganons to be the same person, that one, at the least, is. It's pretty simple to see that connection.

Going through OoT again (I remember it being this fun, but never this easy), I've been seeing how Ganondorf is referred to whenever he's brought up in conversation. Only once so far (by Adult Link) is 'King' used: Gerudo King of Thieves. He is a Gerudo, with the title King of Thieves. Whether or not this is completely contradicted later I'm get to get to, however his position, near as I can see, isn't one of a biological inheritance. This would mean if there are multiple Ganons, his only prerequisite is to be a King of Thieves. That is, after all, how he is otherwise referred to in other games (again LttP springs to mind). I mention this as the topic came up earlier in the thread.

 

[MrMosley]

19 years old. But that doesn't change the fact that we have a 2007 re-release of ALttP which clearly states that the sages power weakened over time resulting in the maidens we see in ALttP. This STILL clearly contradicts the Seal war coming in between FSA and ALttP because FSA ALREADY features shrine maidens.

And what is the point if there are Shrine Maidens in FSA? Are you trying to say that because there are a type of Maiden in FSA that it can't be before there were Sages? Because that is not necessarily true. Shrine Maidens are one thing. Descendants of the Sages who are maidens are another. I don't believe there has ever been a connection between the two specifically stated, especially seeing as how one group is all about the Four Sword, while the other group is more about the Triforce.

Now you're just confusing me. What does this have to do with the conversation at hand? Hell, how does ALttP Ganon =LoZ Ganon anyways?

Because its obvious? The chronological release of the games had LoZ first with this pig-man named Ganon who you really knew nothing about until ALttP, where he was given a backstory. Like I said, Ganondorf has transformed into variations of the same beast that has been referred to as Ganon before, but he did not remain in those forms. In fact, he only sustained that much power for a very brief period of time, long enough for just one battle in most instances. During the Seal War, Ganondorf gained more power than he ever had before and as a result of his wish, he permanently transformed into Ganon. That should be clear enough of an explanation.

Once again, I fail to see how this is relevant to the topic at hand.

Do you really fail to see how this has nothing to do with what you've been saying? Or is that just what you feel like saying at this moment? Because I'm almost... Actually 100% certain that in your previous couple of posts, you were trying to prove the multiple Ganondorfs is the absolute only way that makes sense. I have been proving otherwise. Everything I have stated about Ganon/dorf so far makes perfect sense, doesn't contradict anything, and only deals with one, single Ganondorf.

 

[Pinecove]

And what is the point if there are Shrine Maidens in FSA? Are you trying to say that because there are a type of Maiden in FSA that it can't be before there were Sages? Because that is not necessarily true. Shrine Maidens are one thing. Descendants of the Sages who are maidens are another. I don't believe there has ever been a connection between the two specifically stated, especially seeing as how one group is all about the Four Sword, while the other group is more about the Triforce.

Dude, ALttP downright states that the power through the sages/guardians weakened over time. Shrine maidens are NOT more powerful than sages, and we don't see sages in FSA.
And using Occam's razor we know that the shrine maidens are related to the maidens.

Because its obvious? The chronological release of the games had LoZ first with this pig-man named Ganon who you really knew nothing about until ALttP, where he was given a backstory. Like I said, Ganondorf has transformed into variations of the same beast that has been referred to as Ganon before, but he did not remain in those forms. In fact, he only sustained that much power for a very brief period of time, long enough for just one battle in most instances. During the Seal War, Ganondorf gained more power than he ever had before and as a result of his wish, he permanently transformed into Ganon. That should be clear enough of an explanation.

Once again: How is LoZ Ganon ALttP Ganon when ALttP Ganon clearly died at the end of ALttP?

Do you really fail to see how this has nothing to do with what you've been saying? Or is that just what you feel like saying at this moment? Because I'm almost... Actually 100% certain that in your previous couple of posts, you were trying to prove the multiple Ganondorfs is the absolute only way that makes sense. I have been proving otherwise. Everything I have stated about Ganon/dorf so far makes perfect sense, doesn't contradict anything, and only deals with one, single Ganondorf.

No, it's just that your phrasing and my sleepiness do not go well together.

Why is it that in OoT the Gerudo look up to Ganondorf as a great leader while in FSA they look down upon him as a traitor?
Why is it that Ganondorf goes after the Trident in FSA instead of the Triforce?
How can Ganondorf wish on the Triforce in ALttP when you can only wish upon the Triforce once?
How can Ganon be the leader of a group of thieves for the Seal War when the Gerudo do not follow him in FSA?
Why is it that Ganon is transformed by the Triforce in ALttP when by your standards he already should be transformed because of the Trident?

 

[MrMosley]

Dude, ALttP downright states that the power through the sages/guardians weakened over time. Shrine maidens are NOT more powerful than sages, and we don't see sages in FSA. And using Occam's razor we know that the shrine maidens are related to the maidens.

First, I don't know what Occam's razor is. Second, I said absolutely nothing about the Shrine Maiden's or Sages powers nor did I compare them. So your entire response has little to do with anything I said. What I did say is that you have no proof that the Shrine Maidens are the same as the Maidens, or that they descended from the same groupe of people or anything. Shrine Maidens are maidens SPECIFICALLY of the Shrine of the Four Sword. That alone separates them from the other Maidens. By doing this, we only have proof that the ALttP Maidens are related to the Sages, whereas there is absolutlely no proof that the Shrine Maidens are related to the Sages.

Once again: How is LoZ Ganon ALttP Ganon when ALttP Ganon clearly died at the end of ALttP?

Original intent that has never been altered. Ganon didn't die at the end of ALttP, he was defeated. AST proves that Nintendo had ideas that Ganon was not fully dead. That whole plot may not mean much now, but an entire game was based around Ganon not being completely dead after ALttP and plus, since we know (or, most of us know) that Ganon in LoZ is the same, we know he didn't "die". Or maybe he did die and was brought back by unknown means, who knows? Who cares really? No one questions it. There doesn't have to be a "how" did he live or "why" didn't he die because we simply know he didn't. We know he's there in ALttP, we know he died the same way he did in LoZ, but there's a gap that no one knows what happened to him. All we know is he is alive for LoZ.

Why is it that in OoT the Gerudo look up to Ganondorf as a great leader while in FSA they look down upon him as a traitor?

Not all Gerudo looked up to Ganondorf. As a matter of fact, Nabooru did not like him at all. But, either way, Ganondorf had not done anything to the Gerudo people themselves during OoT. They had no reason to really hate him. In FSA, he broke into THEIR sacred pyramid and stole THEIR sacred artifact for his own greediness. Of course they would hate him.

Why is it that Ganondorf goes after the Trident in FSA instead of the Triforce?

Because the Triforce isn't an important factor of that game. Why is it that the Master Sword isn't there either? Because it isn't important. Plain and simple. The Four Sword Saga does not focus on either the Master Sword or the Triforce, whereas almost every other game does in some way. The FS Saga is like a break away from the rest, except for FSA which tries to tie-into the rest by including Ganon.

How can Ganondorf wish on the Triforce in ALttP when you can only wish upon the Triforce once?

Where is there any proof that you can only wish on it once? You can wish on it as many times as you find it and lay your hand on it as far as I'm concerned. What makes you think you only have one shot? And if you are suggesting that OoT is still the Seal War, how do you know he even wished on it in that game? And if he did, why is he even attempting to do it again in WW if he only had one shot at it? This just makes no sense really.

How can Ganon be the leader of a group of thieves for the Seal War when the Gerudo do not follow him in FSA?

Who's to say they are the same group of thieves? I mean sure, its likely that they are Gerudo people. But no matter what, he is their leader. Regardless of if they like or dislike him, the are more than likely going to follow him. But a number of things could have happened between FSA and the Seal War, such as an entire new generation of Gerudo being born under Ganondorf's control, or maybe he created his own new band of thieves since the Gerudo resented him. There could be many possibilities here that would work.

Why is it that Ganon is transformed by the Triforce in ALttP when by your standards he already should be transformed because of the Trident?

I never said the Triforce was the same as the Trident. I only said that when Ganondorf has had a source of power in the past, he had the ability to transform into a variation of Ganon. In OoT and TP, it was the Triforce of Power (also considering that in TP, he had Twilight power as well). That allowed him to transform into a variation of Ganon, but only for a limited time.

The way I see it, Ganondorf has always had the same beast within him at heart. That beast is, in part, a pig or something resembling a big pig monster. In OoT, TP, and FSA, Ganondorf acquired a source of power enabling him to transform into this beast, but it was different each time, I suppose depending on how the power affected him. In ALttP, his wish on the Triforce transformed everything in the SR into evil monsters because the land itself became infused with evil. Ganondorf himself was not saved from this transformation, which turned him into that which "reflected his heart". As I said before, his inner being is that of a pig monster. So his wish transformed him into a hybrid of this, but because it was the result of a wish and not a temporary source of power fueling the transformation, it left him in a permanent state of being that monster.

 

[DuckNoises]

The way I see it, Ganondorf has always had the same beast within him at heart. That beast is, in part, a pig or something resembling a big pig monster. In OoT, TP, and FSA, Ganondorf acquired a source of power enabling him to transform into this beast, but it was different each time, I suppose depending on how the power affected him.

The difference in appearance is probably due to a change in art style, because aesthetics are different in almost every game. I wouldn't try too hard to explain this one; I think it's more one of those "because it's a game" explanations. This could be an opportunity where someone might mention that this could be proof of multiple Ganon(dorf)s, but I don't think that's really applicable. The explanation for that requires more explanation than the fact that it's probably a change in art style; besides, other characters who have been carried through over multiple games have looked differently, yet remained the same iteration of that character.

Why is it that Ganon is transformed by the Triforce in ALttP when by your standards he already should be transformed because of the Trident?

I haven't played FSA, but he does "lose" the Trident at the end when he's defeated, correct? That could explain why he's not in his boar form before he touches the Triforce in ALttP's backstory.

Why is it that Ganondorf goes after the Trident in FSA instead of the Triforce?

Once again, I haven't played FSA, but wasn't the Sacred Realm closed off until some point after Ganondorf gets the Trident?

 

[Pinecove]

First, I don't know what Occam's razor is.

The simplest solution is usually the better one.

Second, I said absolutely nothing about the Shrine Maiden's or Sages powers nor did I compare them. So your entire response has little to do with anything I said. What I did say is that you have no proof that the Shrine Maidens are the same as the Maidens, or that they descended from the same groupe of people or anything. Shrine Maidens are maidens SPECIFICALLY of the Shrine of the Four Sword. That alone separates them from the other Maidens. By doing this, we only have proof that the ALttP Maidens are related to the Sages, whereas there is absolutlely no proof that the Shrine Maidens are related to the Sages.

But once again that brings Occam's Razor into play. You assume we just HAPPEN to have two sets of maidens/sages in Hyrule who we don't see co exist? Sorry.

Original intent that has never been altered. Ganon didn't die at the end of ALttP, he was defeated. AST proves that Nintendo had ideas that Ganon was not fully dead.

AST's return of Ganon involved Ganon's essence (left over from his contact with the full Triforce) reviving himself into a physical manifestation using the power from the land itself. Nothing remotely implies Ganon is alive after AST.

[quote[That whole plot may not mean much now, but an entire game was based around Ganon not being completely dead after ALttP and plus, since we know (or, most of us know) that Ganon in LoZ is the same, we know he didn't "die". Or maybe he did die and was brought back by unknown means, who knows? Who cares really? No one questions it. There doesn't have to be a "how" did he live or "why" didn't he die because we simply know he didn't. We know he's there in ALttP, we know he died the same way he did in LoZ, but there's a gap that no one knows what happened to him. All we know is he is alive for LoZ.
[/QUOTE]

But that's backwards logic. You are now basing facts on theories not theories on facts. "This is fact therefor this must occur" is a rather weak response compared to "LoZ Ganon could be a different Ganon entirely, or perhaps he's FSA Ganon and ALttP Ganon is a different Ganon."

Not all Gerudo looked up to Ganondorf. As a matter of fact, Nabooru did not like him at all. But, either way, Ganondorf had not done anything to the Gerudo people themselves during OoT. They had no reason to really hate him. In FSA, he broke into THEIR sacred pyramid and stole THEIR sacred artifact for his own greediness. Of course they would hate him.

The Trident and the pyramid were made by the Zuna, not the Gerudo. Please learn your facts.

Because the Triforce isn't an important factor of that game. Why is it that the Master Sword isn't there either? Because it isn't important. Plain and simple. The Four Sword Saga does not focus on either the Master Sword or the Triforce, whereas almost every other game does in some way. The FS Saga is like a break away from the rest, except for FSA which tries to tie-into the rest by including Ganon.

But WHY is it a break away? In my theory, the FSS doesn't break away from anything because there's nothing to break away from (ST-TMC doesn't have a Ganon to break away from as he died in TWW). Why does the FSS break away for no reason in your timeline Mosley? It doesn't made sense.

Where is there any proof that you can only wish on it once? You can wish on it as many times as you find it and lay your hand on it as far as I'm concerned.

"...the Triforce grants the wish of the one who touches it.
As long as that person is alive..."

One wish. singular tense.

And if you are suggesting that OoT is still the Seal War, how do you know he even wished on it in that game? And if he did, why is he even attempting to do it again in WW if he only had one shot at it? This just makes no sense really.

I'm not saying OoT is the Seal War. I believe that comes before TMC. (ST-SW-TMC).
And yes, you are right, for some reason I thought that he had wished on it prior to TP, my apologies.

Who's to say they are the same group of thieves? I mean sure, its likely that they are Gerudo people. But no matter what, he is their leader. Regardless of if they like or dislike him, the are more than likely going to follow him. But a number of things could have happened between FSA and the Seal War, such as an entire new generation of Gerudo being born under Ganondorf's control, or maybe he created his own new band of thieves since the Gerudo resented him. There could be many possibilities here that would work.

But that's pretty much fan fiction born to suit your theories. Try again with factual evidence please.

I never said the Triforce was the same as the Trident. I only said that when Ganondorf has had a source of power in the past, he had the ability to transform into a variation of Ganon. In OoT and TP, it was the Triforce of Power (also considering that in TP, he had Twilight power as well). That allowed him to transform into a variation of Ganon, but only for a limited time.

The way I see it, Ganondorf has always had the same beast within him at heart. That beast is, in part, a pig or something resembling a big pig monster. In OoT, TP, and FSA, Ganondorf acquired a source of power enabling him to transform into this beast, but it was different each time, I suppose depending on how the power affected him. In ALttP, his wish on the Triforce transformed everything in the SR into evil monsters because the land itself became infused with evil. Ganondorf himself was not saved from this transformation, which turned him into that which "reflected his heart". As I said before, his inner being is that of a pig monster. So his wish transformed him into a hybrid of this, but because it was the result of a wish and not a temporary source of power fueling the transformation, it left him in a permanent state of being that monster.

you are misunderstanding me. How can Ganon transform because of the Triforce in ALttP (stated in game in 2007, so no retcons can be called on this) when he should have already been transformed by the Trident?

 

[DuckNoises]

But WHY is it a break away? In my theory, the FSS doesn't break away from anything because there's nothing to break away from (ST-TMC doesn't have a Ganon to break away from as he died in TWW). Why does the FSS break away for no reason in your timeline Mosley? It doesn't made sense.

I'm skeptical that anyone can honestly come up with a reason other than process of elimination to place the FSS anywhere for any particular reason. Games in the FSS have very few connections to any other game outside of the FSS itself; they have this sort of "break away" as Mosley mentions. There don't have to be actual contradictions to constitute a break away, merely an absence of similarities. In that sense, ST-TMC has as much of a break away as anywhere else you would place TMC. In my opinion, most placements of the FSS aren't determined because of an overwhelming sense of adjacency to another game, but rather an absence of contradictions or anachronisms (if that made any sense).

"...the Triforce grants the wish of the one who touches it.
As long as that person is alive..."

One wish. singular tense.

I think it's resting on the implication that one would only ever use or need one wish. However, this quotation tells a different story:

The Triforce will grant the
wishes in the heart and mind of
the person who touches it.

This is also a near identical quote to yours, except from GBA ALttP, that leads me to believe it has since been changed for clarification:

...The Triforce will grant the
wishes of whoever touches it,
as long as that person lives...

you are misunderstanding me. How can Ganon transform because of the Triforce in ALttP (stated in game in 2007, so no retcons can be called on this) when he should have already been transformed by the Trident?

I asked this in response to a similar question:

I haven't played FSA, but he does "lose" the Trident at the end when he's defeated, correct? That could explain why he's not in his boar form before he touches the Triforce in ALttP's backstory.

 

[Pinecove]

I'm skeptical that anyone can honestly come up with a reason other than process of elimination to place the FSS anywhere for any particular reason. Games in the FSS have very few connections to any other game outside of the FSS itself; they have this sort of "break away" as Mosley mentions. There don't have to be actual contradictions to constitute a break away, merely an absence of similarities. In that sense, ST-TMC has as much of a break away as anywhere else you would place TMC. In my opinion, most placements of the FSS aren't determined because of an overwhelming sense of adjacency to another game, but rather an absence of contradictions or anachronisms (if that made any sense).

But that fact is that the FSS doesn't connect to TP at all whereas there ARE references to ST within it.

This is also a near identical quote to yours, except from GBA ALttP, that leads me to believe it has since been changed for clarification:

That quote is from the GBA version of the game whereas the one I posted is the literal Japanese translation...

I haven't played FSA, but he does "lose" the Trident at the end when he's defeated, correct? That could explain why he's not in his boar form before he touches the Triforce in ALttP's backstory.

No he doesn't lose the Trident. He's sealed up in the four Sword Trident and all.

 

[Kybyrian]

How can Ganon be the leader of a group of thieves for the Seal War when the Gerudo do not follow him in FSA?

I'm rather new to Zelda theories, but I believe during a reading of the Seal War I remember seeing that the group of thieves that followed him also attempted to take the Triforce once they stumbled upon it, but were slaughtered by him so he could claim it. This implies that the group of thieves was not truly loyal to him. They could have been following him simply because of his power. Perhaps the didn't wish to oppose him because of their fear? Then there's always, as MrMosley stated, the possibility that it could have been a different group of thieves. It's unlikely, but that doesn't mean impossible.

No he doesn't lose the Trident. He's sealed up in the four Sword Trident and all.

Could it also be possible that after being sealed away, the Trident lost the power it had to turn Ganondorf into Ganon, thus reverting him back to Ganondorf? This is something that you can never be sure about, but I believe it is possible, even likely.

 

[AaronX]

You know, Ganon/dorf does have a Trident in ALttP..

 

[MrMosley]

But once again that brings Occam's Razor into play. You assume we just HAPPEN to have two sets of maidens/sages in Hyrule who we don't see co exist? Sorry.

Its a dumb idea to consider them the same when they do completely different things. One set is for the Shrine, the others serve a completely different purpose. You are making no sense here nor are you providing any good argument towards what you are trying to say you believe other than "they are both maidens". The Four Swords Saga deviates from the primary story of most the other Zelda titles. Sorry if that's a hard thing for you to come to terms with, but you'll have to eventually I suppose.

AST's return of Ganon involved Ganon's essence (left over from his contact with the full Triforce) reviving himself into a physical manifestation using the power from the land itself. Nothing remotely implies Ganon is alive after AST.

You just kinda contradicted yourself. If any portion of Ganon exists after his death, especially a portion allowing him to revive into a fully functional version of his former self, then he wasn't completely destroyed. No matter what you say he was "created" from, the fact is that he had the ability to reform so him being destroyed in ALttP means nothing WHEN considering AST.

But that's backwards logic. You are now basing facts on theories not theories on facts. "This is fact therefor this must occur" is a rather weak response compared to "LoZ Ganon could be a different Ganon entirely, or perhaps he's FSA Ganon and ALttP Ganon is a different Ganon."

Okay. You are wasting time arguing about stupid things that don't need to be argued about. Its commons sense and I'm not wasting anymore time arguing about things that should be common sense. How stupid would it be to make a prequel detailing who the main protagonist is and "Oh, all of a sudden, this isn't the same Ganon", for absolutely no reason. Do you even understand how rediculous that sounds? Further discussion on this specific topic is over as far as I'm concerned because there's really no point at all.

The Trident and the pyramid were made by the Zuna, not the Gerudo. Please learn your facts.

Who cares who made it? That's not what I even said. I said it was sacred to them. The following is text pulled right from the game:

The pyramid is sacred
to our people.

To have a criminal such as
him enter... His presence
stains its holy ground.

Now, Pinecove. If you would, just ever-so slightly, place your foot inside of your mouth.

But WHY is it a break away? In my theory, the FSS doesn't break away from anything because there's nothing to break away from (ST-TMC doesn't have a Ganon to break away from as he died in TWW). Why does the FSS break away for no reason in your timeline Mosley? It doesn't made sense.

WHY are you asking me? Go ask Nintendo. If you want to put the Four Swords Saga at the end of the AT, that is fine. I see a lot of people doing that. But it sure seems that FSA's Hyrule is very much like that of ALttP's (among other connections between the two games), and of course we know that FS's Hyrule is the same as FSA's. Then, it would be illogical to assume or even argue that MC's Hyrule is different from those two games because we know they are the same as well. ST's Hyrule, what we know of it so far, is unlike any other Hyrule in the series, whereas all the other Hyrules relate in some form or fashion. So you say the FSS is relative to ST while ST's land is completely different, and I say the FSS takes place at a different time in a land that is pretty much the same as the games the FSS takes place around/in-between. My argument would win in this case.

"...the Triforce grants the wish of the one who touches it.
As long as that person is alive..."

One wish. singular tense.

It grants one wish at a time, not one wish for that person for the rest of eternity.

But that's pretty much fan fiction born to suit your theories. Try again with factual evidence please.

I don't have to. There is no factual evidence in the space between FSA and the Seal War and if you would quit speaking before you think, you would have realized that and not typed this kind of response. I can technically make up anything I want that would logically work and have it as my theory because I have evidence to support FSA before ALttP, so obviously, the Seal War would come between. It doesn't matter if I have factual evidence (which again, does not exist) to prove the SW's placement when I know it goes there.

you are misunderstanding me. How can Ganon transform because of the Triforce in ALttP (stated in game in 2007, so no retcons can be called on this) when he should have already been transformed by the Trident?

The Trident wouldn't have transformed him permanently. Its that simple. No where does it say that the Trident transformed Ganon for good, nor does it make sense to when FSA is before ALttP, SW in the middle, and during the SW, Ganon was Ganondorf. He obviously did not stay in the form after FSA.

You know, Ganon/dorf does have a Trident in ALttP..

Exactly. And when is the first time we see Ganon acquire such a weapon in the series, Pinecove? Ah yes, FSA. Yet another good example of an FSA--ALttP connection.

 

[Pinecove]

I am extremely busy with school and as a result will not be replying as often as I used to. Rest assured I WILL reply once in a while though.

I'm rather new to Zelda theories, but I believe during a reading of the Seal War I remember seeing that the group of thieves that followed him also attempted to take the Triforce once they stumbled upon it, but were slaughtered by him so he could claim it. This implies that the group of thieves was not truly loyal to him. They could have been following him simply because of his power. Perhaps the didn't wish to oppose him because of their fear? Then there's always, as MrMosley stated, the possibility that it could have been a different group of thieves. It's unlikely, but that doesn't mean impossible.

Except the group of thieves WAS Ganondorf's.

Could it also be possible that after being sealed away, the Trident lost the power it had to turn Ganondorf into Ganon, thus reverting him back to Ganondorf? This is something that you can never be sure about, but I believe it is possible, even likely.

Except that's basing a fact on a theory and making up fan fiction. Nothing implies the Trident would have lost its power even after being sealed as:
1. Ganondorf apparently kept all his power when he broke out of the FS.
2. The Trident had been lost for an EXTREMELY long time in FSA (ancient is defined as 2000 years or more) and it was brought back to the world and it's power was still intact.

Its a dumb idea to consider them the same when they do completely different things. One set is for the Shrine, the others serve a completely different purpose. You are making no sense here nor are you providing any good argument towards what you are trying to say you believe other than "they are both maidens". The Four Swords Saga deviates from the primary story of most the other Zelda titles. Sorry if that's a hard thing for you to come to terms with, but you'll have to eventually I suppose.

I can't accept the idea but I can't deny it either. I'm just saying it goes against Occam's razor.

You just kinda contradicted yourself. If any portion of Ganon exists after his death, especially a portion allowing him to revive into a fully functional version of his former self, then he wasn't completely destroyed. No matter what you say he was "created" from, the fact is that he had the ability to reform so him being destroyed in ALttP means nothing WHEN considering AST.

It survived because of the Triforce. Ganon didn't have the Triforce during AST.

Who cares who made it? That's not what I even said. I said it was sacred to them. The following is text pulled right from the game:

The pyramid is sacred
to our people.

To have a criminal such as
him enter... His presence
stains its holy ground.

Now, Pinecove. If you would, just ever-so slightly, place your foot inside of your mouth.

The Pyramid is sacred to them, it was not built by them:
"Oh, visitors to this village are truly rare, you know? We of the Zuna tribe live in this village. We may not look it now, but we are descended from the wise pyramid builders!" -Zuna in FSA.

WHY are you asking me? Go ask Nintendo. If you want to put the Four Swords Saga at the end of the AT, that is fine. I see a lot of people doing that. But it sure seems that FSA's Hyrule is very much like that of ALttP's (among other connections between the two games), and of course we know that FS's Hyrule is the same as FSA's. Then, it would be illogical to assume or even argue that MC's Hyrule is different from those two games because we know they are the same as well. ST's Hyrule, what we know of it so far, is unlike any other Hyrule in the series, whereas all the other Hyrules relate in some form or fashion. So you say the FSS is relative to ST while ST's land is completely different, and I say the FSS takes place at a different time in a land that is pretty much the same as the games the FSS takes place around/in-between. My argument would win in this case.

Except FSA is a rendition of AlttP's map and TP is a rendition of OoT's map and they both look extremely different.
Also I WOULD argue that ST-FSS works quite well (it has a coast! ) but that's for another time.

The Trident wouldn't have transformed him permanently. Its that simple. No where does it say that the Trident transformed Ganon for good, nor does it make sense to when FSA is before ALttP, SW in the middle, and during the SW, Ganon was Ganondorf. He obviously did not stay in the form after FSA.

Once again, theories to suit facts not vice versa. And I'm pretty sure it's implied. So what, Ganon just decided to transform himself with the Trident only once? I doubt it. You have to provide evidence that he can't transform again.

I don't have to. There is no factual evidence in the space between FSA and the Seal War and if you would quit speaking before you think, you would have realized that and not typed this kind of response. I can technically make up anything I want that would logically work and have it as my theory because I have evidence to support FSA before ALttP, so obviously, the Seal War would come between. It doesn't matter if I have factual evidence (which again, does not exist) to prove the SW's placement when I know it goes there.

Now this is just disgraceful. With this logic I could say Ganondorf came out of the ocean after TWW and is now stalking Link in new Hyrule. It's ridiculous!

Exactly. And when is the first time we see Ganon acquire such a weapon in the series, Pinecove? Ah yes, FSA. Yet another good example of an FSA--ALttP connection.

The Tridents look completely different.
With this logic I could say FSA comes before OoT because Phantom Ganon has a Trident.