At Last, My Timeline

[Zemen]

........WW/PH-ST
MC-OoT<
......../MM-TP-FS/FSA-ALTTP/LA-LoZ/AoL-OoX



MC-OoT

MC first because the lack of a hat in both the hero in the BS and Link seems too coincidental to not be significant. There is no mention or hint of Ganon/dorf who is supposed to be the biggest threat to Hyrule. Only Hyrule based game to not feature him in any sort of way. I believe the hero in the BS is not a previous Link of any kind. Link is always chosen by the Goddesses or by fate. The hero in the BS of MC was chosen by little people from another world. There was no divine reasoning (as far as we know) behind why the piccori chose that particular human to be the hero of men.

WW/PH-ST

This is obvious. ST was stated by the developers to take place 100 years after PH. PH is an obvious sequel to WW with the same main characters.

TP-FS/FSA-ALTTP

FSA BS talks about the previous encounter with Vaati and talks about Link by name. This implies that it is the same Link from FS which implies a direct sequel. At the end of FSA, Ganon is sealed away in the Four Sword. In ALTTP, Ganon somehow escaped the Four Sword (possibly dark Link broke it and released him) and turned the SR into the DR. The palace of the Four Sword is in the DR and after beating the game you can enter it and see the broken pieces of the Four Sword. The fact that the palace is in the game with a released Ganon is a heavy implication that ALTTP goes after FSA.

Also, ALTTP on the child timeline because the progression of the Master Sword's placement is very smooth this way. In OoT it is in the Temple of Time. In TP it is in the ruins of the Temple of Time with the lost woods seemingly growing around it. In ALTTP it is in the lost woods. FS and FSA in between TP and ALTTP would give plenty of time for an entire woods to grow.

ALTTP/LA

LA BS talks about Link previously saving Hyrule from Ganon and venturing off to foreign lands for training and enlightenment. In ALTTP, Link saves Hyrule from Ganon and it's clear that original intent for this game was to be a sequel to ALTTP. Shadow creature turns into Aghanim at one point in the game so LA has to take place sometime after ALTTP. Makes the most sense to be the next game after ALTTP.

LoZ/AoL-OoX

LoZ has Link defeating Ganon. AoL features the same Link so it has to be a direct sequel. In AoL, Ganon is still dead and his minions are trying to resurrect him by killing Link. They ultimately fail and Ganon stays dead. In OoX, Ganon is still dead and his minions are once again trying to resurrect him by different means. They partially succeed and a nearly brainless Ganon is born but quickly defeated.



It's taken me a while to figure out what my timeline is and I know some of you are curious as to what it is since I argue so much in the timeline threads. I know some of you will have problems with many of this. I look forward to arguing. I welcome all criticism, just don't be a jerk about it.

 

[MrMosley]

I can agree with this timeline. The only things I am not sure about yet is the placement of OoX, whereas right now I put it as a distant sequel to LA. One question, why do you not have LA as a direct sequel to ALttP in your timeline model? Your description doesn't say otherwise either, just that it takes place sometime after. I'm pretty sure you believe its a direct sequel, but I figured I would ask anyway.

But anyway, I agree with this one. OoX's placement at the end of the CT works for me too, since I often consider that it could go there and be just fine. Other than the fact that Twinrova make no appearance for hundreds, maybe even thousands of years (from MM to OoX), which is odd, I think its alright to place it there. Heck, even placing it after LA would mean that Twinrova didn't show up for hundreds of years so, whichever way is alright.

 

[basement24]

I agree with this pretty much actually. I've been working on my own timeline theory, and currently I had FS / FSA before OoT, but I didn't have enough proof of that. I can see how it could be after TP though.

I would agree with DarkLink01 and say that LA could be called a direct sequel to ALttP, but it seems you've stated as such, but just not in your timeline model. I'm sure that's what you intended though... right?

The only thing that I haven't worked out is OoX because I haven't played the titles yet, and all I know about them comes from overhearing (overreading?) conversations on these forums. I would have tended to place it more towards the beginning of the timeline, but really, I don't think I'm at a place that I can comment on it's status at all.

So, if you remove OoX from the equasion all together, then this is something VERY close to what I have, and is something that I could agree with as well!

 

[Tingle]

Well I guess I'll be the first in the firing line then. How does Ganon progress from ALttP onwards because from what I can make out hes in the sacred realm and dies, then he somehow comes back (could you tell me why Im intrigued) to life for LoZ/AoL and then is partially resurrected in OoX before dieing again.

If you're wondering my idea for this point is ALttP - LoZ/AoL - OoX - LA, I know you won't like this cause you believe LA is a direct sequel to ALttP but at the moment nobody has disproved this idea.

Everthing else is the same though.

 

[Zemen]

Yes, I meant to make LA a direct sequel to ALTTP. I have edited my post to reflect that. Thanks for the catch, guys.

Well I guess I'll be the first in the firing line then. How does Ganon progress from ALttP onwards because from what I can make out hes in the sacred realm and dies, then he somehow comes back (could you tell me why Im intrigued) to life for LoZ/AoL and then is partially resurrected in OoX before dieing again.

I guess the only way I can answer this question is with other questions.

After Ganon/dorf dies in TP, how does Ganon live on at all through the timeline? It's never explained how Ganon (not Ganondorf) comes back to life. He just seems to appear again.

What game, if any, is the seal war? It was originally supposed to be OoT, but with all of the games made after that intent in the mix, that makes it VERY hard (or impossible) to believe.

How come LoZ/AoL aren't the first 2 games in the timeline since AoL has the original Zelda in it? We're apparently supposed to believe that every princess was named Zelda by chance until, what most people consider near the end of the timeline, AoL in which the name becomes a tradition.


The point I'm trying to make is that there are MANY unanswered questions that would decide the set in stone placement of a good number of the games. Just because I can't explain how Ganon comes back after dying once doesn't mean it's not possible. We don't know how he comes back after TP, so should we not put any games with Ganon in them after TP? Same would go for people who are AT placers. They can't explain how Ganon comes back after WW.

Not being able to explain how Ganon comes back from death after ALTTP isn't a really big issue for me.

It's obvious that there are ways to resurrect him so let's just theorize that in some, unexplained way he is resurrected.

If you're wondering my idea for this point is ALttP - LoZ/AoL - OoX - LA, I know you won't like this cause you believe LA is a direct sequel to ALttP but at the moment nobody has disproved this idea.

I'm not gonna argue/discuss why you put LoZ/AoL after ALTTP and before OoX-LA because, frankly, I think LoZ/AoL could go anywhere after ALTTP on the timeline, but what are your reasons for having OoX before LA? Please tell me you're not one of those "it's the same boat" people...

 

[MrMosley]

How does Ganon progress from ALttP onwards because from what I can make out hes in the sacred realm and dies, then he somehow comes back (could you tell me why Im intrigued) to life for LoZ/AoL and then is partially resurrected in OoX before dieing again.

Well as Zemen pointed out, that is really an unanswerable question. The only thing we know is that he did come back. Although no one knows for sure how it happened, we know it did. Its the same for TP. Personally, where I put FS/FSA some generation or so after TP on the timeline, I do not believe Ganondorf died at the end of TP. At least not completely.

The Gerudo mention Ganondorf going to the Pyramid to obtain the Trident as a source of power. Obviously, Ganondorf has become powerless, or at least more so than he was. This is why it makes sense to me that he did lose the Triforce of Power at the end of TP, but did not die. It would explain why he is still alive in FSA, but seeking a source of power as well. At least that's my theory. Just wanted to bring it to attention.

If you're wondering my idea for this point is ALttP - LoZ/AoL - OoX - LA, I know you won't like this cause you believe LA is a direct sequel to ALttP but at the moment nobody has disproved this idea.

Everthing else is the same though.

Actually that could work as well. LoZ starts with Ganon alive, and in possession of the Triforce of Power. OoX begins with Ganon dead, and Twinrova trying to resurrect him. It only makes sense to me that OoX has to come after a game that Ganon has been completely destroyed. Therefore, it can go after ALttP/LA, or it can go after LoZ/AoL. No matter where you put LoZ/AoL in that mix, the question is still there about how Ganon was revived. Now you placing LA after OoX isn't something I agree with at all, but that's also a hot topic of discussion, which Zemen posted a thread about. You can view it here for reference:

http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3586

 

[Tingle]

"After Ganon/dorf dies in TP, how does Ganon live on at all through the timeline? It's never explained how Ganon (not Ganondorf) comes back to life. He just seems to appear again."

I take it that you believe that there is no new Ganon for FSA like I believe where a new Gerudo male is born and is possesed/influenced by the original Ganondorf and seeks out the Trident of Power. I too dont believe that Ganondorf doesnt completely die in TP just the body.

"What game, if any, is the seal war? It was originally supposed to be OoT, but with all of the games made after that intent in the mix, that makes it VERY hard (or impossible) to believe."

I guess you could say there isnt one yet but I speculate that its at this time FSA, yes i know theres no real connection but the beta did show intent from the creators so that must be roughly where they place it. But its all over the place at the moment.

"How come LoZ/AoL aren't the first 2 games in the timeline since AoL has the original Zelda in it? We're apparently supposed to believe that every princess was named Zelda by chance until, what most people consider near the end of the timeline, AoL in which the name becomes a tradition."

So do you believe that the backstory happens immeadiatley before the game because i personally believe that it happens right at the start of the series and she remains there the whole time. (TBH anything pre-OoT is pretty messed up because Zelda would be hundreds of years old but its the only way it works)

"Actually that could work as well. LoZ starts with Ganon alive, and in possession of the Triforce of Power. OoX begins with Ganon dead, and Twinrova trying to resurrect him. It only makes sense to me that OoX has to come after a game that Ganon has been completely destroyed. Therefore, it can go after ALttP/LA, or it can go after LoZ/AoL. No matter where you put LoZ/AoL in that mix, the question is still there about how Ganon was revived. Now you placing LA after OoX isn't something I agree with at all, but that's also a hot topic of discussion, which Zemen posted a thread about."

TBH, I dont want to start another thread discussing the oracles cause ive seen the other thread is huge and any point I make will have been covered at some point. I guess the boat is kind of like the hat in MC as in too coincedental but Its not my only reason. Please dont push this we already have a thread on his.

For my Ganon theory there is speculation but you need some in a Zelda timeline, FSA, New Ganon is sealed in Four Sword which is moved to sacred realm and sealed by sages/maidens. ALttP, Ganon escapes the seal (possibly thanks to Dark Link) and touches the Triforce turning the SR into the DW and uses Aganhim (sp?) to try and free him. Link defeats him and he is killed but Link wishes on the triforce to reverse the events of ALttP and unkowingly revives Ganon in the process who escapes the SR and ambushes Hyrule leading to LoZ where Ganon is killed and is attempted to be resurrected by his minions (AoL) then Twinrova (OoX) and then leaves Labrynna/Holdrum to return to Hyrule but is shipwrecked and washes up on Koholint.

 

[MrMosley]

I used to think that it was possible for Ganon to have been resurected in his beast form permanently, which is why we would have seen it in games like ALttP and LoZ, but not his human form. However, I do not believe there is more than one Ganondorf or Ganon. Whether Ganon is a spirit which takes over Ganondorf or is reborn into Ganondorf or whatever, we have only seen one Ganondorf in the series. And as I posted before, being that FSA talks about him, it seems logical to me that he did not (completely) die at the end of TP.

On a side note,

TBH, I dont want to start another thread discussing the oracles cause ive seen the other thread is huge and any point I make will have been covered at some point. I guess the boat is kind of like the hat in MC as in too coincedental but Its not my only reason. Please dont push this we already have a thread on his.

(wishes people would read my posts sometimes). Tingle, I think I know that. That's kinda why I posted a link to that thread, to avoid that discussion in here, ya know?

 

[Tingle]

Yeah yeah I did see the link and thats why I referenced it in my post just so you know

 

[Hayzer]

I know how the Master Sword travels smoothly between TP and ALttP, but on the contrary, the Triforce does not. In the end of TP, Ganon/dorf loses the Triforce of Power, so yeah it makes sense with FS/FSA coming after it. BUT also with that placement of FS/FSA there is no explanation for how the Triforce is completely together at the beginning of ALttP. And also, it takes centuries, sometimes thousands of years for a good forest to grow. The Triforce flows much smoother with the Child timeline looking thusly:

TP--LoZ/AoL--FS/FSA--ALttP/LA--OoX

Let's examine the Triforce:

TP:
--Still split from the events of OoT.
--Ganondorf loses the ToP.
--ToC goes into hiding when this Link dies.
--ToW (possibly) passed down through the Zeldas.

LoZ:
--Ganon once again gets the ToP (BS)
--ToC still in hiding.
--Zelda breaks ToW.
--Link collects the ToW
--Ganon killed/defeated

AoL:
--Link gets the ToC in the Great Palace
--Zelda must still have the ToW
--Ganon must still have the ToP
--The Triforce unites

FS/FSA:
--Power-starved from the events of AoL, Ganon gets the Trident
--Triforce not mentioned, meaning, nothing happened to it.

ALttP:
--Triforce seen resting in Hyrule Castle intact.
--Ganon still retains the Trident from FSA.
--Triforce still intact at the end.

LA:
--Triforce not mentioned.
--Shadow (in the form of Ganon) still has a Trident. (Final Boss)

OoX:
--Triforce seen intact at beginning of game.
--Twinrova tries to ressurect (sp?) Ganon.
--Ganon defeated
--Triforce still intact at end of game.

It makes much more sense.

 

[MrMosley]

I know how the Master Sword travels smoothly between TP and ALttP, but on the contrary, the Triforce does not. In the end of TP, Ganon/dorf loses the Triforce of Power, so yeah it makes sense with FS/FSA coming after it. BUT also with that placement of FS/FSA there is no explanation for how the Triforce is completely together at the beginning of ALttP. And also, it takes centuries, sometimes thousands of years for a good forest to grow. The Triforce flows much smoother with the Child timeline looking thusly:

All the answers aren't there. There are a lot of things that don't make sense about the timeline because there are a lot of plotholes. What my suggestion would be is that after Ganondorf lost his piece of the Triforce at the end of TP, that the other two pieces went back and became one unit as well. Link didn't need the Triforce of Courage anymore, and Zelda didn't need the Triforce of Wisdom. So it could make sense that the Triforce just went back to its one single unit after that.

AoL:
--Link gets the ToC in the Great Palace
--Zelda must still have the ToW
--Ganon must still have the ToP
--The Triforce unites

It is strongly implied that Link has the ToP and ToW during this game, as he is shown with all three pieces, the complete Triforce, at the end after getting the ToC. Ganon sure doesn't have the ToP during this game because he is dead.

FS/FSA:
--Power-starved from the events of AoL, Ganon gets the Trident
--Triforce not mentioned, meaning, nothing happened to it.

What events would those be? Ganon wasn't even in AoL. Again, he was dead. The whole point of the monsters trying to hunt down and kill Link was to use his blood to revive Ganon. The fact that you have Ganon mysteriously living after AoL is inaccurate as well. There was never anything within FS or FSA that said Ganon was revived from a previous death. In fact, it talks about Ganondorf going and retrieving the Trident, not Ganon. It says that by obtaining the Trident, he became the King of Darkness/Implied as becoming the beast Ganon we see at the end of the game.

ALttP:
--Triforce seen resting in Hyrule Castle intact.
--Ganon still retains the Trident from FSA.
--Triforce still intact at the end.

Triforce was never in Hyrule Castle during this game; It was in the Sacred Realm/Dark World.

 

[Zemen]

Other than the fact that Twinrova make no appearance for hundreds, maybe even thousands of years (from MM to OoX), which is odd, I think its alright to place it there.

This caught my eye during a second read through. In OoT, when Link defeats Twinrova, they say that their age is somewhere along the lines of almost 500 or 600 years. It's apparent that they, for some reason, are capable of living for long periods of time. In MM, they run a potion shop. It's not crazy to think that their mixed abilities to live long and make healing potions could be the reason why they would possibly be able to live those hundreds/thousands of years.

Also, DarkLink pretty much addressed everything I was going to address about Hayzer's post.

 

[MrMosley]

This caught my eye during a second read through. In OoT, when Link defeats Twinrova, they say that their age is somewhere along the lines of almost 500 or 600 years. It's apparent that they, for some reason, are capable of living for long periods of time. In MM, they run a potion shop. It's not crazy to think that their mixed abilities to live long and make healing potions could be the reason why they would possibly be able to live those hundreds/thousands of years.

Well its not so much that I believe they would die in that period of time, its just weird that they did nothing at all during that whole time. They did nothing in TP, nothing in ALttP (which I guess if Nintendo wanted to they could have used them in the re-release), and they did nothing in Four Swords Adventures. My biggest quarrel about it is that they waited hundreds or thousands of years to make a move and do something to help out their fallen leader. That's the part that doesn't make sense to me.

Though, I do usually come up with a plausible theory when I'm typing my questions, so here's the one that cropped up in my head just then. To answer my own question, I figure a possibility might be that Ganon had not yet died. Many people assume he dies at the end of TP. From what FSA tells us, I think he survived, just lost the ToP.

Since he wasn't dead, Twinrova wouldn't need to try and revive him. He wasn't killed at the end of FSA either, just sealed away. He did die at the end of ALttP, which is why Twinrova is trying to revive him in OoX. This is why I put OoX after LA (distantly) on my timeline; Because it would make sense to me that if Twinrova were to attempt to revive Ganon, it would be right after he died. Why would he die, then they not do anything, wait until he somehow came back, let him die again, then decide to do something?

These are the problems that I have, not their general age. Even still, they did absolutely nothing through any of those games. During those games, Ganon/dorf was sealed away a few times in different places. Couldn't they try to help him out? Couldn't they at least try to fight Link and keep him from defeating Ganon/dorf again?

 

[Zemen]

Well its not so much that I believe they would die in that period of time, its just weird that they did nothing at all during that whole time. They did nothing in TP, nothing in ALttP (which I guess if Nintendo wanted to they could have used them in the re-release), and they did nothing in Four Swords Adventures. My biggest quarrel about it is that they waited hundreds or thousands of years to make a move and do something to help out their fallen leader. That's the part that doesn't make sense to me.

Though, I do usually come up with a plausible theory when I'm typing my questions, so here's the one that cropped up in my head just then. To answer my own question, I figure a possibility might be that Ganon had not yet died. Many people assume he dies at the end of TP. From what FSA tells us, I think he survived, just lost the ToP.

Since he wasn't dead, Twinrova wouldn't need to try and revive him. He wasn't killed at the end of FSA either, just sealed away. He did die at the end of ALttP, which is why Twinrova is trying to revive him in OoX. This is why I put OoX after LA (distantly) on my timeline; Because it would make sense to me that if Twinrova were to attempt to revive Ganon, it would be right after he died. Why would he die, then they not do anything, wait until he somehow came back, let him die again, then decide to do something?

These are the problems that I have, not their general age. Even still, they did absolutely nothing through any of those games. During those games, Ganon/dorf was sealed away a few times in different places. Couldn't they try to help him out? Couldn't they at least try to fight Link and keep him from defeating Ganon/dorf again?

Here's the idea that just popped into my head. What if they don't care about Ganondorf (the man) at all? Maybe they are only interested/raised Ganondorf because Ganon is in his body. If this is the case, then Ganondorf (the man) dying wouldn't matter to them, but when Ganon dies they could get concerned and start to devise ways to bring him back. Somehow he comes back after ALTTP, and is then later killed in LoZ. After this, Twinrova is trying to find a way to bring Ganon back and in the meantime, Ganon's minions have come up with their own way to bring him back. When that fails, Twinrova unleashes their plan to try and bring him back in OoX. Notice that, if my timeline is correct, they only appear in games shortly after Ganon's death, but not in games that are close to Ganondorf's supposed death, except for MM in which they played no villainous role.

Being creatures of dark magic, they may only be interested in other creatures of dark magic. Ganondorf only has his powers because of Ganon's spirit. Without Ganon, Ganondorf may be nothing to them. When Ganondorf dies, we may assume that Ganon's spirit is still alive so Twinrova just wait for the spirit to emerge in a physical form.

Another thing I would like to point out, I know some will say that you can explain how Ganon comes back after ALTTP if OoX is a distant sequel to it. No matter Where you put any of the games on the timeline, there is going to be at least one, unexplainable instance of Ganon reappearing after death.

 

[MrMosley]

Here's the idea that just popped into my head. What if they don't care about Ganondorf (the man) at all? Maybe they are only interested/raised Ganondorf because Ganon is in his body.

I have wondered this before. It is possible, but think about how much of the timeline that would mess up, lolz. Having Ganon be a spirit within Ganondorf. Gahh. Then, people would be putting games with Ganon (beast) in them way before OoT and all that.

But it is a nice theory anyway and I think it could work. It says, in OoT I believe, that Twinrova are Ganon's mothers. But it doesn't just say mothers, its something like "surrogate" mothers or something like that. Anyway, the way I took it is that they either raised Ganondorf from birth, or, they are actually long-time followers of Ganon himself, and placed the spirit of Ganon into Ganondorf at a young age or even before he was born. This would be an interesting twist, and would play on that theory you came up with quite well.

I even, at one point, researched Ganondorf's name, particularly the "dorf" portion. I know its a stretch, but "dorf", if memory serves me correctly, is like a Scottish or German word, something like that, that means "small town". I'm still trying to figure out that if they used that word to add to Ganon, how that would play on his overall design. Like I said, its a bit of a stretch that they would use a word that rare and in a strange dialect from their own, but it does raise questions.