Game Thread Pendio Mafia X

[Ragnarokio]

Pen has been posting so many vote counts. I posted 11 vote counts where it shows funnier voting you for almost 48 hours and how could you not even notice funnier's vote on you?

what i meant was: what do you think i'm trying to achieve by lying?

 

[Ragnarokio]

scummy. and this is scummy because of the language used. rag is avoiding talking about players and instead talks about their general strategy. when people lie they try to distance themselves from whom they're lying about/to. so in mafia, i'd think that if someone's reads aren't genuine, they'd naturally pivot towards generalizations instead of adding specifics.

pretty sure i talked about specific players day 1

most players probably talk about their game philosophy at various points in the game

 

[Ragnarokio]

I don’t see why you felt the need to validate your vote on him with “could still be mafia” when it could literally be proven that he wasn’t very soon.

i didn't

 

[Ragnarokio]

Sometimes Rag posts things like this which really throw me off cause geez it’s so rude lol. Idk if I could see scum Rag taunting Sun like this no matter what the situation, it’s just so unnecessary and feels more like “lol I think you’re scum and I’m gonna kill you haha sucker” that kinda thing. I just dont know that scum Rag would say that.

sun reminds me of PK and it brings out the worst in me

@people who know jinjo's meta: Is it common for her to OMGUS?

 

[Mellow Ezlo]

Whee, time for another ISO. Why did I do this when I'm tired and my vision is blurred? No idea. Am I slightly masochistic? Highly likely.

Anyway, I've compiled all of Johnny's posts so let's break 'em down.

Spoiler

Vote: Mellow Ezlo

I played as sloth man in the last game, it's only appropriate I vote him first in this one.

Traitor.

Back to the Future is a town tell.

Sun's statement honestly is kinda strange, and I know that's echoing, but it is true. However, I'm more interested in Lar and MinMin. They seem to really want to find a flaw in what he said, or at least that's the impression I get.

Rubik and FunFun going at, nothing particularly new, and I'm not getting anything from them. Gonna have to learn some new players here as well. New faces (for me) so exciting!

Johnny's first real read, which is... ok, I have mixed feelings about this. First he echoes what others had said about SunSun at the time (he was the main discussion point, not really a bad thing, not much else had happened), but I'm not sure I like that read of Lar and Min. Sun's odd behaviour early on was really the only thing of significance that had happened up to that point, so I don't fault either of them for going after him over it. There was really nothing else to talk about at that time, so if anything Min and Lar were acting pro-town. Just seems like a reach.

Nah it was just a mistake and I'm am idiot. I roped Ex into my post for some reason I already forgot and then just addressed Rubik. Probably boils down to him wanting to lunch for a silly reason, and kinda cause his logic boils down the same way. Me being on Ex's scum leans just means I'm playing right tbh

Unvote
Vote: Rubik


I like this better because honestly your previous posts just didn't have the urgency or the feeling I get from your town play.

I can't really explain what I find weird about sun. He's always weird to me. Don't mistake that for discrediting him as scum. He always seems relatively scummy to me and I have to decide if he stays or moves towards town feel. But yeah, Sum is always weird, you trying to pressure something that just seemed more innocuous SunPosting felt weird to me.

For some reason I forgot to hit the multiquote button on the post in which he mistakenly voted for Ex (I'm tired ok umu), but for reference here it is.

I think it's important to remember how he talks about Sun here, because as you'll see he actually ended up planting seeds to vote for Sun after Sun had said he can prove his role by D2, but before he actually claimed. I'll talk more about that later.

I like his read of Rubik here. I kinda felt similar vibes from that particular post of Rubik's so it's a decent mindmeld, although mixing up Ex and Rube is a bit weird.

Implying you wouldn't try to 5D chess your way into that sorta situation

fluff

To clarify, Rubik feels scummy because saying strong players deserve to live based on strength discounts the opinions and play of less seasoned players, who may have good points. Ex feels slightly scummy because I wouldn't put it past him to create the exact scenario he said was silly. But that's also wifom so I can't put much stock into it

His point about Rubik here is a good point. I still think finding Ex to have been scum was a bit silly though but eh. I can see maybe someone who doesn't know Ex very well to find him scummy, but even then, it was probably a stretch. And Johnny does know Ex well. Anybody who knows Ex well should have been able to recognize his fairly obvious town play.

That's a better take and I can agree with it to an extent. The blanket idea of "don't lynch cause stronk" is bad, which is how you addressed the scenario at first, this my suspicion. Still not a huge fan of the sentiment but I'll leave it for now

Unvote


I stress eat tbh

This is another decent mindmeld. The Rubik post he's quoting here is when Rubik explained more what he was getting at with the not lynching strong players thing, and I also thought that post looked better than his previous ones.

Can we stop giving passes to subversive gameplay? "I got a reason but I won't say, btw not scum, believe guys". Explain your statements.

I don't think this is telling but I agree with it 100%.

Why? Cardboard isn't an answer btw

Tim Hortons.

I'm fine with lynching Poy if it comes to it. My issue is that a Poy lynch is low effort af. I get meta reads on him as evidence, but he's been town in just as many low effort games of his. I can't really read him, not do I care to until I see more. But trying to Target him for D1 lynching seems lazy

I did notice a difference in Poy's playstyle, but even then, his inconsistent tone is what got to me. But it's fair to think trying to lynch Poy would have been easy and lazy.

See, my point being, it wasn't difficult to write this, and I appreciate an answer. Sorry if I'm touching a nerve there. I can see where you're getting those vibes, and I'd agree. I haven't seen anything that Tristan or Killjoy have said that seems scummy, but I wouldn't give Killjoy a pass solely because the posts seem genuine and not coached. Nor does Tristan's statement win him town cred.

I liked the push on funnier to actually explain his reads a bit more. I have noticed funnier being submersive in this game, moreso than I really remember him being before, so I have no issues with this push.

I personally still don't see it as a preemptive defense, but that's my take. However, this post has me more inclined to townread Minish. I don't see scum Minish reading this hard into a single point. It's just not like her to draw that much attention to it.

I would argue scum Minish would be perfectly capable of doing what she did in regards to SunSun earlier, but I felt like she went about it in a townie way.

I agree it's helpful, but the question seems really baity, like trying to fish for a discernable soft.



This is mainly what I was getting at. Is activity AI for him, or are you just seeing what sticks?


I like that analysis, and I agree. Activity hasn't seemed to be AI for Poy, and considering a lynch on inactives on D1 is scumplay in almost all cases, especially a game that's larger than our normal ones.

The small push on Rag here seems pretty good too. And I can see Johnny's line of thinking here.

Min's analysis of Kirino here was interesting, and pretty easy to agree with. Personally, Kirino is meh to me atm (no need to get into that in this post though) so, at the very least, I don't really see a Johnny-Kirino scumteam.

To be fair, I did say most cases. My issue is inactivity was presented as a lynch option in like the first 36 hours or something. That's what I found scummy. I don't dislike the idea of lynching an inactive late in a day given nobody else, and probably will vote one soon. But I don't like it earlier on. It's lazy and lynch baity.

Fair.

I'm a whisky guy, but Rum is nice too. And Sake is always great.

Erase all doubt, this is a town post.

No. Stop. Explain why.

Thank you.

I've half a mind to just vote Sun, if only for the anti-town play going on. Gonna sleep on it and decide in the morning.

This is where Johnny starts talking about voting for Sun. I think the important thing to note is that by this point, Sun had already made clear he intended to prove himself come day 2, and I can see not wanting to hard claim third party. This seems like seed planting in case his lynch was to build steam (which it did).

Not necessarily. Pen's past games did give dreaming god powers that only they should have. That said, it's usually just annoying to have to deal with one. His wincon is survive and Sun would shaft town if it looked like he was going to lose.

Vote: TheSunFun

Somebody tell me why I shouldn't lynch him. I have a little bit of time before I gotta do stuff today.

And here's the vote. He did sleep on it, to be fair, but this was after Sun had claimed, and Johnny's vote was the fifth on the wagon (with the next highest wagon only having 2 votes). He provided among the least reasoning for his vote out of all the sun fan voters, and seemed to just want to eliminate a player who, in all likelihood, would've helped town as much as possible had he been kept alive.

Hmmm.

My hunch on the Giri death is that he was protecting someone. Impossible to say who, so good play there. Ex's death is interesting. It's either a really good scum guess, or a vig kill. I'll reread some stuff and see what I can find, then post back.

Giri was a pretty good Vig target tbh, and I'm not sure someone as inactive as him who had clearly been barely reading would have successfully predicted a nightkill unless it was a lucky guess.

Oh, also

@CynicalSquid and @Funnygurl555

Not to rush y'all, but reads as soon as possible would be great. DW and naga didn't leave much to really go off of, so any takes you have would help.

"No rush, but please give us stuff asap"

My reasoning was that Ex was very directly involved in the Sun lynch. I know a couple were suspicious of Ex. I don't think it's too odd to think that. Also, Giri being the bodyguard and dying seems really coincidental. But idk. It's all just theorizing.

Again, Giri was a pretty solid Vig target so I don't think it's coincidental at all.

Based on D1 I'm gonna do this for now

Vote: Rubik

Rubik was very inconsistent yesterday. He started off by disliking the Sun wagon, and flip flopped 2 to 3 times on it, settling on "Sun is not a great lynch". The key here is that he stayed on Deku when a switch to either of the main wagons could have solidified the lunch on Sun or SMS (via Rag switch). If I had a guess, I'd say non-committal scum trying to stay off a wagon. Could be either one, or both.

Admittedly, a fair vote, and fairly consistent with some of Johnny's earlier reads of Rubik. Sticking to his guns is a decent look.

I gotta say, I actually don't see all that much wrong with Johnny's play for the most part. The only real problem I have is the Sun Fan vote, as it was a little contradictory to what he had said earlier in the day, but he's been fairly consistent with his read of Rubik and he did make some decent pushes against certain players earlier on. I find that a lot of what he said I agreed with, so I would probably townread him but the Sun Fan vote has me conflicted. I just don't like how he planted seeds for it then voted after it had really picked up steam. Just looks like he was trying to give himself some leeway in case people suspected him for jumping on the Sun lynch later.

Johnny's Sun vote looks bad, but I think a lot of his other content is fine. I'll give him a weak town read now having read his ISO, but I don't think SMS's alignment really matters in this case when looking at the way he went about his Sun Fan vote so we'll see how Johnny looks with his later posts.

 

[MixMasterLar]

Also yes I wrote up a google doc with over four pages of replies because I knew that I was going to survive the night because I am in fact scum and I sure do love homework yes I do.

Dude

Don't use our one claim

i didn't

Uh, you did though

 

[MixMasterLar]

Like Rag that absolutely is a fair depiction of your play at EoD

 

[MixMasterLar]

Like I get I also voted for the man
But you dont see me lying about it

 

[Ragnarokio]

yeah thinking back you might be right

i flip-flopped around a lot towards the end of the day while doing analysis so i wouldn't be surprised if i said a lot of different things. I thought there was a reasonable chance that sunfan was scum but i don't think that generally factored into my decision to lynch him. In the post funnier quoted i'm pretty sure i was just thinking out loud or responding to something somebody said and not justifying my vote on the basis of him possibly being scum. If anything I was more afraid of him being cult or SK than i was of him being mafia.

for the entire time i was in favour of lynching him my focus was probably primarily on analyzing the impact of the dreaming god role while considering the possibility of various things sunfan could be in the event of him lying and what the relative probabilities of those outcomes were and what the impact on the game those outcomes would have.

 

[MixMasterLar]

...

 

[Ragnarokio]

funnier quoted my post like this:

its still possible (if unlikely) that he's lying.

and then said this:

“We can confirm tomorrow that he’s self”
Two seconds later “He could still be lying”

Like ???? why would you even bring that up if it can be proven by tomorrow. I don’t see why you felt the need to validate your vote on him with “could still be mafia” when it could literally be proven that he wasn’t very soon. I don’t see why you didn’t just stick to the logical non-paranoid “third parties must die” line of reasoning if thats what you truly believed instead of giving bull reasons for lynching him as early as posssible.

This response makes less sense when you include the part funnier cuts off:

its still possible (if unlikely) that he's lying. there's value in lynching him if he's telling the truth and even more value in lynching him if he's lying.

which makes it clear that i was still supporting sunfan's lynch on the basis of "third parties must die", and that the possibility of him being mafia just increases the EV of the play somewhat.

 

[Johnny Sooshi]

@Johnny Sooshi

You have more thoughts on EoD then just those, yeah?

I honestly didn't pay attention too much to SMS yesterday, mostly because when he was active, I wasn't. I'll get back to you after I take the time to read stuff, either on my lunch break or after work. I will say from a visual perspective of seeing the Road post have 3 more votes on SMS, I feel like there might be a last minute push, but again, need to see Kirino, Min, and Tristan's posts leading to it.

And here's the vote. He did sleep on it, to be fair, but this was after Sun had claimed, and Johnny's vote was the fifth on the wagon (with the next highest wagon only having 2 votes). He provided among the least reasoning for his vote out of all the sun fan voters, and seemed to just want to eliminate a player who, in all likelihood, would've helped town as much as possible had he been kept alive.

I was of the mindset that a counter seemed unrealistic at that point (ironically it was in the last hour-ish). I also knew I wouldn't be around at all at EoD and that Sun seemed the best to me. I'd rather not have left it up to change and stand by my choice.

"No rush, but please give us stuff asap"

I mean, yes? FG has kept reads flowing in as she's posted, and I like that Silver has already added thoughts on a basic thread skim. I'm just saying it because reading 64 full pages is taxing and nearly impossible to catch up on, and I'd rather see some basic reads than full 100 post ISOs of funnier or Lar from them at this point.

 

[funnier6]

I can see the rationale for that. We know there are two roles from each game, therefore making it almost impossible to lie about which game you're from.

Whats so great about lying about what game youre from, that just means youre more likely to be countered if anything, being theres only one other person with a role from your game so you'd have better odds fake claiming something from that

also giri protecting someone and ex being a vigi kill makes sense to me.

I definitley think that Giri was doing his job and caught the mafia kill. I can't really forsee any reason for mafia, vig or SK to want to kill him. On the other hand, I personally was feeling a little questionable about Ex due to how he handled Sun yesterday, so, while it may be my own bias shining through, I feel like him being a vig shot makes sense.

Am I missing something here? Is there some special reason that is an obvious conclusion?

Cause like, I dont think Giri submitting a night action is even the most definite thing, that he submitted the correct one is a definite possibility? Dont say anything if you dont want to Min but my first thought was that Min shot him lol. And if it was a vig shot which I think it was it was quite a good one since Giri would not have been much help and might've ended up replacing out anyway

I just cant fathom a vig shooting Ex unless it was Lar, and judging by the way hes acting it wasnt Lar, all I can really is that if you were the vig and shot Ex you really dont need a gun.

I wouldn't be surprised if the mafia killed Ex to make the people who scumread him earlier look bad.

????? How many times has this ever been a mafia strategy, if someones getting scum read you let them get mislynched, why would you kill people getting scum read????

 

[funnier6]

and it started on Tristan, and he planted that seed by meta reading me. It just seems really weird to me that he'd resort to meta when he is very much against it.

Oh that's not weird, Trist is what we call a hypocrite :V

I expect more from anyone at that point.

Coming to you live from Tristans first active game in the last circa 6

Sorry not sorry Trist :V

This looks like to me funnier is faking over here. He has played two games with me on bulba when I was scum and he should know exactly which games I was scum since he played in those games.

I see that OoT was one, which if you recall I subbed in halfway through the game. I still have no idea what the second game was if you'd like to enlighten me?

Though

Why

Do you think both me and Rag would lie about literally the most unnecessary and stupid things. If I actually remembered I could've just said I was looking through your games with no evidence of doing so and it would've had the same effect.

 

[funnier6]

Other then Sun, Leslie makes the first push on the counter wagon

Mkay this is slightly random but you call him Leslie why????

I HATE ALL OF YOU

WHAT A TEASE

I WANT SUNFAN

Tbh I was thinking about suggesting Pen ask you to sub in but then I was like oh wait sun's dead shes not gonna wanna come lol

o. This far, Funnier and Kirino seem to be annoyingly in sync, which would indicate to me that neither is scum and both would not be stupid enough to team scumpost

We're never in sync tho, no matter what. And at least we disagreed about lynching sun so we're a tad more normal