NX Discussion and Rumor Thread

[Lozjam]

Please share your reasons. I'd be interested to know what they are.


The one massive advantage to carts over blu-Rays is no payment of royalties to Sony. Apple (specifically Steve Jobs) said the Blu-Ray royalties was a "bag of hurt". It's the Blu-Ray royalties specifically being the reason why Apple products can not natively play Blu-Ray discs. Nintendo are most likely fully aware of the costs (ie royalties) to Sony, Nintendo would have to pay to license the use of Blu-Ray discs for their games. I do think it is a wise decision to avoid this bag of hurt and use a better technology (ie carts).

By carts we are assuming ROM carts and not flash carts.

They are indeed ROMCarts, as that is what the company that this rumor stems from makes.

 

[Lozjam]

Have any images of the NX been released yet?

There are not going to be any NX images released. I can promise you that. We will just have to wait until Nintendo shows it off.

They will probably show off the NX at August or September. That would be the ideal time to release Information.

 

[the8thark]

There are not going to be any NX images released. I can promise you that. We will just have to wait until Nintendo shows it off.

They will probably show off the NX at August or September. That would be the ideal time to release Information.

Quite possibly at Gamescom

 

[Lozjam]

Quite possibly at Gamescom

I don't think so. Yes, Gamescom is an absolutely huge gaming conference. However, E3 is way bigger. If they aren't doing a presentation on E3, I don't think they would do it at Gamecom. It seems like Nintendo wants to stand on their own and just announce the NX on their own terms. I think Nintendo will have is own convention, much like the GameCube and N64 days.

 

[the8thark]

I don't think so. Yes, Gamescom is an absolutely huge gaming conference. However, E3 is way bigger. If they aren't doing a presentation on E3, I don't think they would do it at Gamecom. It seems like Nintendo wants to stand on their own and just announce the NX on their own terms. I think Nintendo will have is own convention, much like the GameCube and N64 days.

Or just a NX direct.

 

[Lozjam]

Or just a NX direct.

They would need to show the NX to general press for hands on impressions with the console. Especially since they would be 6 months away from launch.

I think Nintendo also needs a live audience for this instance as well. The NX absolutely needs to be the most hyped thing ever for Nintendo to succeed, and it needs to reach above Nintendo's hardcore demographic.

 

[Viral Maze]

What would these reasons be?
Cartridges have far surpassed the capabilities of Blueray Disks. They run quite a bit faster and can hold nearly the same amount of data. It can also have the best emphasis on cross play between the NX and a handheld(that is, if they aren't the same thing).

I mispoke (mistyped). Limiting the NX isn't what I meant. Just meant there are things I hope are ironed out before it launches.

Consoles run faster than disk read speeds, so having cartridges would benefit loading times, and even get rid of the mandatory game installations plaguing consoles right now. Consoles are about ease of use and access. There is nothing easy or accessible about waiting for a few dozen minutes to install a game before you can finally play. What I'm curious is how this will affect the price of games. In the U.S. it might be swell paying $60 for a new game, but here in Canada its $70-75 a pop.
Also, its rumoured the cartridges are 32GB. BRD are 50GB, so unless there is going to be dual-layering cartridges, there may still be data to be downloaded and installed onto the NX's hardrive for games bigger than 32GB at launch. I have Halo 5 sitting pretty at 78GB with all the free DLC, and the Witcher 3 at 38GB pre-DLC. If we have to install data on the HDD to circumvent the 32GB restriction on the cartridges, I don't want Nintendo to cheap out and only offer a 250GB or 500GB HDD. Games are only going to get larger, especially 3rd party games, especially on a console rumoured to be more powerful (or as powerful) as the PS4. What's the point of all that power if you don't have higher texture packs, and more detailed models (all of which take up space). How much of that 32GB space will be for profile data and saves? Will this hard space requirement for profile saves take away space for the video game? Or will the ability to save on cartridges be not allowed to allow the full space for games, and patches, and saving game data be left to the individual internal HDD?

I'm curious to see how Nintendo handles that. Cartridges are a great step towards never having to install a game again, but they're not without their own logistics issues. I don't want to be paying $80 for a new game, still having to install data on the internal HDD, etc.

 

[the8thark]

Consoles run faster than disk read speeds, so having cartridges would benefit loading times, and even get rid of the mandatory game installations plaguing consoles right now. Consoles are about ease of use and access. There is nothing easy or accessible about waiting for a few dozen minutes to install a game before you can finally play. What I'm curious is how this will affect the price of games. In the U.S. it might be swell paying $60 for a new game, but here in Canada its $70-75 a pop.

• In Australia games are $80-$100 a pop. Some of the newer PS4 releases were $110. $70-75 would be a lower price for us. I don't think the game prices will change much on carts. Carts don't raise the 3DS price all that much. Carts actually might be the cheaper option for Nintendo if you consider Nintendo not paying the (supposedly very steep) Blu-Ray disc licensing fees. Also Nintendo would be getting OEM (wholesale) prices for the blank carts. If they use similar parts to the 3DS carts, that would be even more bulk saving for Nintendo.
• The loading time issue is legit and a good fix.
• Installing the games would mean you don't need to insert the cart each time to play the game. That's a huge plus. I don't see Nintend going down that route though. Nintendo like everyone having their own carts. it encourages more sales of the games.

Also, its rumoured the cartridges are 32GB. BRD are 50GB, so unless there is going to be dual-layering cartridges, there may still be data to be downloaded and installed onto the NX's hardrive for games bigger than 32GB at launch. I have Halo 5 sitting pretty at 78GB with all the free DLC, and the Witcher 3 at 38GB pre-DLC.

That's lazy programming to me. 32 GB is large enough for most games pre-DLC. Even World of Warcraft now is only 35GB on my HDD. That is the base game plus five expansions. The 32 GB limit is not tiny and it would help foce developers to optimise their game code.

If we have to install data on the HDD to circumvent the 32GB restriction on the cartridges, I don't want Nintendo to cheap out and only offer a 250GB or 500GB HDD. Games are only going to get larger, especially 3rd party games, especially on a console rumoured to be more powerful (or as powerful) as the PS4. What's the point of all that power if you don't have higher texture packs, and more detailed models (all of which take up space). How much of that 32GB space will be for profile data and saves? Will this hard space requirement for profile saves take away space for the video game? Or will the ability to save on cartridges be not allowed to allow the full space for games, and patches, and saving game data be left to the individual internal HDD?

This is an issue but for a totally different reason. Digital games. 32GB internal SSD is not enough these days. Download two large games and your 32GC is full. Or in extreme cases you can't digitally download Xenoblade Chronicles and Xenoblade Chronicles X to the same WiiU SSD. You need external storage for that.
Also installing the games would mean less reads of the cart ROM which is always a good thing. However if Nintendo use high quality faster carts then the speed and load time issues (from optical media) could be mostly eliminated. I don't think waiting 10 minutes to install the game is really an issue. It's a one time thing. A lot quicker than downloading the game digitally on a slow internet connection.

 

[CrimsonCavalier]

I have to say I would rather not have to install a game on my console, at all. It seems like it's the opposite of what consoles were meant to be, which is plug-and-play. If I'm going to install a game on a hard drive, that sounds an awful lot like PC gaming. The point of doing cartridges instead of discs is that you're eliminating both the read time and the need to install the software to the console's internal.

I think on top of having carts (if that's the way of the future), Nintendo needs to add a sizable internal hard drive. One that is large enough for digital download games. I have Wind Waker HD, Fatal Frame, and Devil's Third on my HD, and I 100% had to get an external. That's unacceptable if at least one of those games was only available as DD.

The point about not being backwards compatible is something that could definitely impact the validity of the cart system though. I hadn't thought of it, and it could present problems going forward.

 

[Viral Maze]

• In Australia games are $80-$100 a pop. Some of the newer PS4 releases were $110. $70-75 would be a lower price for us. I don't think the game prices will change much on carts. Carts don't raise the 3DS price all that much. Carts actually might be the cheaper option for Nintendo if you consider Nintendo not paying the (supposedly very steep) Blu-Ray disc licensing fees. Also Nintendo would be getting OEM (wholesale) prices for the blank carts. If they use similar parts to the 3DS carts, that would be even more bulk saving for Nintendo.

I'd rather not get used to paying more for the same. Last gen I paid $60 for a new game, now I'm paying $70. I looked into the BRD fees and couldn't exactly come up with anything conrete. Same goes for cart prices, some say its 8-10x more expensive than a single BRD, some say its not much. It hard to tell without proper, up to date, information.

That's lazy programming to me. 32 GB is large enough for most games pre-DLC. Even World of Warcraft now is only 35GB on my HDD. That is the base game plus five expansions. The 32 GB limit is not tiny and it would help foce developers to optimise their game code.

Nope. I assume you don't own a PS3/X360/XBO/PS4? Last gen games were around ~10GB. Most were less, but there were some that exceeded that 10gb mark. This gen, games are looking to be an average of mid-20 GB. It's because there is more data and assets to load up. Each year the games look better and better, and with that comes larger file sizes. Uncharted 4 is the best looking console game I think I have ever seen and it shipped 44GB large (the game uses in-game cutscenes, so that space isn't taken by prerendered video). If the NX is more powerful than the PS4, the 32GB cap limits games, unless they start shipping with a single game on 2 carts, or compressing data to hit that 32GB mark (meaning decreases in fidelity, or requiring installation onto HDD to decompress data). It doesn't limit games now, but it could in the future.

 

[the8thark]

The point about not being backwards compatible is something that could definitely impact the validity of the cart system though. I hadn't thought of it, and it could present problems going forward.

The VC covers that. But then you still have to download and install the digital games. I honestly don't see the issue here. An extra few minutes to install a game from the cart is actually quicker than having to download the game first (if purchased digitally) then installed. A little patience and you'll be able to play your games without the need to have to insert the cart into the console each time you want to play the game.

I'd rather not get used to paying more for the same. Last gen I paid $60 for a new game, now I'm paying $70. I looked into the BRD fees and couldn't exactly come up with anything conrete. Same goes for cart prices, some say its 8-10x more expensive than a single BRD, some say its not much. It hard to tell without proper, up to date, information.

I agree totally. We need more concrete information before we can answer these type of questions.

Nope. I assume you don't own a PS3/X360/XBO/PS4? Last gen games were around ~10GB. Most were less, but there were some that exceeded that 10gb mark. This gen, games are looking to be an average of mid-20 GB. It's because there is more data and assets to load up. Each year the games look better and better, and with that comes larger file sizes. Uncharted 4 is the best looking console game I think I have ever seen and it shipped 44GB large (the game uses in-game cutscenes, so that space isn't taken by prerendered video). If the NX is more powerful than the PS4, the 32GB cap limits games, unless they start shipping with a single game on 2 carts, or compressing data to hit that 32GB mark (meaning decreases in fidelity, or requiring installation onto HDD to decompress data). It doesn't limit games now, but it could in the future.

Installing the game off two carts would work just fine. If Nintendo is using the game install method . . . which is possible but feels very un-Nintendo like.
Of cause we have the occassional game that is larger in size. I am fully of PS and Xbox game sizes. Even games like SSB Brawl and the Metroid Prime Trilogy were very close to the 10GB mark. Very few games now break the 32GB cap. But we are talking about future proofing your console which is a a very important point. I am very glad you brought it up. Consoles (Nintendo ones that is) only need to future proof themselves for 5 years on average. Till the next console comes out. Will the majority of games be larger than 32GB before 2022? I honestly do not think so, but I do think a decent number of large developer titles will be over that 32GB limit. I do feel that most of these games will not be on the NX so Nintendo is not too worried about them (assuming this 32GB ROM cart rumour is true). I do think the issue you bring up here is totaly legit and important. But for the time being it's probably not cost effective to order a large number of fast 64GB carts. If the majority of NX gamea are 32GB or under, then the few that are over can be handled by a 2nd cart to install the extra data or a download.

I totally agree what you say is an issue, but I do feel other ways are more cost effective to deal with it (for the NX) at the current point in time.

 

[CrimsonCavalier]

Consoles (Nintendo ones that is) only need to future proof themselves for 5 years on average. Till the next console comes out.

I think it's time to stop thinking that Nintendo is going to keep doing 5 year cycles. Even now, arguably the only reason Nintendo is doing the NX is because of the Wii U's downfall, not because they thought it was time.

I think the NX needs to be ready for a long life. I expect the PS4 and XBO to be around for a loooooong time, and therefore it would behoove Nintendo to make sure the NX is ready for a long time as well.

The reason for that isn't to follow trends or keep some sort of cycle schedule. It's because if a PS4 owner can buy one PS4 and have it last 6-7 years, but a Nintendo supporter is buying a new console every 4 years, that's not going to bode well for Nintendo.

If carts aren't future-proof, then carts can't be the way to go.

 

[the8thark]

I think it's time to stop thinking that Nintendo is going to keep doing 5 year cycles. Even now, arguably the only reason Nintendo is doing the NX is because of the Wii U's downfall, not because they thought it was time.

I think the NX needs to be ready for a long life. I expect the PS4 and XBO to be around for a loooooong time, and therefore it would behoove Nintendo to make sure the NX is ready for a long time as well.

The reason for that isn't to follow trends or keep some sort of cycle schedule. It's because if a PS4 owner can buy one PS4 and have it last 6-7 years, but a Nintendo supporter is buying a new console every 4 years, that's not going to bode well for Nintendo.

If carts aren't future-proof, then carts can't be the way to go.

I can agree with you 100% here. Now we have the 32GB ROM carts. In the future Nintendo might start making larger ROM carts for the NX. Kind of like how the Wii used standard DVDs but they used DL DVDs for SSB Brawl and the Metroid Prime Trilogy. I also do think the NX needs to hand around for a long time. The NX did not do well, but neither did the N64. Also the Wii did really well and the same 5 year cycle. Hpwever I do agree the NX needs to last formore than 5 years. How long? I don't think anyone knows at this point in time.

 

[the8thark]

http://www.videogamer.com/news/nintendo_nx_and_playstation_4_5_neo_due_for_tgs_reveal_report.html
Nintendo NX and PlayStation 4.5, reportedly codenamed PlayStation Neo, are both scheduled to be revealed at Tokyo Game Show this September, according to a report by VRWorld.

http://vrworld.com/2016/05/11/amd-confirms-sony-playstation-neo-based-zen-polaris/
We wondered what the “new semi-custom business in 2H 2016” statement mean. Our baseline was that it’s probably a placeholder for the Nintendo NX console, which should be announced during Tokyo Game Show 2016. However, according to sources in the know, this placeholder has another existing customer, whose name is SONY.

 

[Lozjam]

http://www.videogamer.com/news/nintendo_nx_and_playstation_4_5_neo_due_for_tgs_reveal_report.html
Nintendo NX and PlayStation 4.5, reportedly codenamed PlayStation Neo, are both scheduled to be revealed at Tokyo Game Show this September, according to a report by VRWorld.

http://vrworld.com/2016/05/11/amd-confirms-sony-playstation-neo-based-zen-polaris/
We wondered what the “new semi-custom business in 2H 2016” statement mean. Our baseline was that it’s probably a placeholder for the Nintendo NX console, which should be announced during Tokyo Game Show 2016. However, according to sources in the know, this placeholder has another existing customer, whose name is SONY.

Gah. I hate that the NX's reveal is being squandered in this way. The Japanese console market is nearly dead, and they should be focusing on the west. It's terrible that we will be getting second hand information in this way.

At least they will be showing it off to a live audience in this way