Breath of the Wild Did BotW cross the collectathon line?

[misskitten]

Exactly, you do what you want to do, and if you during that get the stuff you need to upgrade, then you will and if not, then no bigge.

 

[DarkestLink]

I'm not saying "don't collect Korok Seeds". I'm saying you don't have to grind.

Korok Seeds are part of grinding.

Like I said, I didn't do any grinding. I upgraded a select favorite of my armor and equipment,

Which requires grinding...

 

[Lozjam]

Korok Seeds are part of grinding.



Which requires grinding...

Regular gameplay is not grinding. Coming across a Korok Seed in your way during normal gameplay is not grinding, nor is killing enemies that you regularly encounter.

I upgraded my equipment only through regular gameplay, without having to go out of my way to pick up materials. That isn't grinding by any stretch of the word.

 

[YIGAhim]

I say that the seeds are nice, but they should've tried a bit harder on story and dungeons instead

 

[DarkestLink]

Regular gameplay is not grinding. Coming across a Korok Seed in your way during normal gameplay is not grinding, nor is killing enemies that you regularly encounter.

I upgraded my equipment only through regular gameplay, without having to go out of my way to pick up materials. That isn't grinding by any stretch of the word.

1) What enemies do you "come across" without going out of your way to kill? ...Aside from the Yiga and Octoroks.

2) OK, I'll bite...what equipment/level?

 

[Lozjam]

1) What enemies do you "come across" without going out of your way to kill? ...Aside from the Yiga and Octoroks.

2) OK, I'll bite...what equipment/level?

I come across a camp of bokoblins. I kill the bokoblins. I cross paths with a Lynel, I kill the Lynel. Ect. Ect. It's not rocket science here.

I just upgraded my Hylian Tunic, Hylian Pants, Zora armor set, climbing set, and Blue Tunic to Level 2. I also got a guardian Armor and I upgraded it to level 1. I had no problems going through the game like that. Like I said, I never even found the other 2 fairy fountains as well.

 

[Turo602]

I say that the seeds are nice, but they should've tried a bit harder on story and dungeons instead

I agree. The korok puzzles were definitely a nice addition, however, they overstay their welcome as they become useless after 400+ have been collected. After you've fully upgraded your inventory, the rest just seem to be there for the sake of filling the map. Had there been more to do other than shrines and korok puzzles, the world would have felt more meaningful.

For instance, I felt there were many areas that looked interesting that were ultimately wasted with nothing more than a shrine or enemies to be found. They could have at least been designed as mini-dungeons and offered meaningful rewards for completing them. The idea of shrines isn't bad, but given that's all we have, it just feels cheap. Rather than utilize a good amount of puzzles in a dungeon, they just divide all the puzzles and scatter them all across the world just to fill it.

The yiga hideout is a good example of a place that should have been much bigger and taken more to complete. Every village should have had a side-story aside from the divine beasts that ultimately leads you to a traditional dungeon of sorts that is actually part of the world and not underground like the shrines.

 

[the8thark]

Korok Seeds are part of grinding.

Not really. At the very lest it's totally optional grinding. I have found about 460 seeds now and notonce did I find it to be a grind. I just found them all as I am exploring the map.

Had there been more to do other than shrines and korok puzzles, the world would have felt more meaningful.

That's not the aim of the game though. The aim of the game is to be an explorathon and a collectathon.

 

[DarkestLink]

I come across a camp of bokoblins. I kill the bokoblins. I cross paths with a Lynel, I kill the Lynel. Ect. Ect. It's not rocket science here.

Bokoblins hide in camps and Lynels are non-aggressive. How did you "come across" them? It sounds like you were hunting them down...

I just upgraded my Hylian Tunic, Hylian Pants, Zora armor set, climbing set, and Blue Tunic to Level 2.

Must have been reeeeeally lucky with Farosh then...

I also got a guardian Armor and I upgraded it to level 1.

....OK I know Guardians are aggressive, but how did you get enough cores without farming them?

Not really. At the very lest it's totally optional grinding. I have found about 460 seeds now and notonce did I find it to be a grind. I just found them all as I am exploring the map.

Well yes...but everything sans Ganon is optional Koroks still make up over 80% of the game and comprise of the same mundane tasks over and over.

That's not the aim of the game though. The aim of the game is to be an explorathon and a collectathon.

What's the point of exploring when the world is empty, lifeless, and devoid of meaning?

 

[the8thark]

80% of the game and comprise of the same mundane tasks over and over.

Well you just described almost every single video game ever created just now.

What's the point of exploring when the world is empty, lifeless, and devoid of meaning?

The world in this game is not empty or lifeless ir devoid of meaning though. What's the point of exploring it? That's up to each player to work that out for themselves. The player had to make their own reasons and find their own fun in the exploring. The player finds the fin for themselves here, as opposed to other games where the developer tells you where the fun is in a linear fashion.

 

[Turo602]

That's not the aim of the game though. The aim of the game is to be an explorathon and a collectathon.

Whether that's the purpose or not is not the point. It hurts the overall experience. They could have easily made better use of the world and actually make it interesting beyond being the space between you, korok seeds, shrines, and divine beasts. The shrines themselves are just a reason for you to explore the massive world, yet they don't actually make the world interesting as they take you to an underground sector rather than implementing the puzzles into the open space. As someone stated before, what's the purpose of exploring if what you're exploring is just emptiness? Sure, there's side quests, enemies, dragons, etc. But that doesn't amount to much when they all get you the same thing, materials. That's not satisfactory. You no longer get the same feeling of progress previous games have given us because they couldn't balance all the things that made previous games great, with the focus being on an open-world, physics, and game mechanics. This isn't the definitive Zelda experience, it's the basis for one.

 

[the8thark]

As someone stated before, what's the purpose of exploring if what you're exploring is just emptiness?

I'll have to explain this in a different way so people understand.

Why do people go bush walking?
Why do people go camping out in the bush?
Why do people explore nature in general?

There is no side quests in real life, no puzzles to solve, to grand scheme of things to consider. People just go out doors and explore the world around them, because it's not part of their normal life, they find it relaxing and it gives them the opportunity to leave their busy lives behind for a time and they can really think about things deeply. Zelda: Breath of the Wild emulates this. That's the aim of the game. The lack of anything very structured to do is the whole charm of the game. If there's too much to do and the world is too busy then that sense of escapism and freedom is lost. The game's minimalistic soundtrack enforces this as well.

The areas in Breath of the Wild are far from empty. However what is there, is not what many people want to see in a video game. Walk to a cliff and see a waterfall. Many people would say that's boring, where's the things to do, where's the action, where's the reward. The reward here in this game is the waterfall ifself. Seeing it within the beautiful landscape. That's the thrill. The same can be said for mountain top views, vast grassy plains, desert oases (plural of oasis), vocanic areas, cold snow covered areas . . . and the list goes on and on. All of that is amazing to explore and discover. My only wish was that the game should have had a few more cave like areas to explore. But past that there is so much to explore and discover.

I believe many people are looking within the landscape for something and totally not realising that it's the landscape itself that is amazing and totally not empty at all. Even the occassional spots of wildflife in the game help keep the player immersed in the environment.

To those who think exploring Breath of the Wild is just exploring emptyness, I say they are either not understanding that exploring the environment itself is the reward or that this kind of game is not for them and they would prefer a game with more active linear rewards to search for, like loot or gold or achievements or something mroe tangible to keep track of.

The game does give you chests or korok seeds or weapons when you reach certain milestones in exploring, like reaching the top of a mountain or finding that little island or realising that lighter colour patch of eater on the map might have sunken treasure and it does. The rewards themselves don't matter, they are just tokens to say thank you for exploring our world, we as developers hope you enjoyed exolpring to this area of the game. Sure that's nothing like more usable rewards like gold/rupees or actually usable loot or achievements to keep track of . . . things that a lot of people want to search for. It's these more usable loot items that many people want to search for and that's ok. It just means this kind of exploring the world is not for them and they would prefer different kinds of games.

Also watch this video:
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/threa...-breath-of-the-wild-was-made-as-it-was.59640/
It'll help explain many of the game design processes that Nintendo used to make Zelda Breath of the Wild the game that it is. These design processes are not everyone's cup of tea though but a certain portion of the gaming audience will love them.

 

[Turo602]

I'll have to explain this in a different way so people understand.

Why do people go bush walking?
Why do people go camping out in the bush?
Why do people explore nature in general?

There is no side quests in real life, no puzzles to solve, to grand scheme of things to consider. People just go out doors and explore the world around them, because it's not part of their normal life, they find it relaxing and it gives them the opportunity to leave their busy lives behind for a time and they can really think about things deeply. Zelda: Breath of the Wild emulates this. That's the aim of the game. The lack of anything very structured to do is the whole charm of the game. If there's too much to do and the world is too busy then that sense of escapism and freedom is lost. The game's minimalistic soundtrack enforces this as well.

The areas in Breath of the Wild are far from empty. However what is there, is not what many people want to see in a video game. Walk to a cliff and see a waterfall. Many people would say that's boring, where's the things to do, where's the action, where's the reward. The reward here in this game is the waterfall ifself. Seeing it within the beautiful landscape. That's the thrill. The same can be said for mountain top views, vast grassy plains, desert oases (plural of oasis), vocanic areas, cold snow covered areas . . . and the list goes on and on. All of that is amazing to explore and discover. My only wish was that the game should have had a few more cave like areas to explore. But past that there is so much to explore and discover.

I believe many people are looking within the landscape for something and totally not realising that it's the landscape itself that is amazing and totally not empty at all. Even the occassional spots of wildflife in the game help keep the player immersed in the environment.

To those who think exploring Breath of the Wild is just exploring emptyness, I say they are either not understanding that exploring the environment itself is the reward or that this kind of game is not for them and they would prefer a game with more active linear rewards to search for, like loot or gold or achievements or something mroe tangible to keep track of.

The game does give you chests or korok seeds or weapons when you reach certain milestones in exploring, like reaching the top of a mountain or finding that little island or realising that lighter colour patch of eater on the map might have sunken treasure and it does. The rewards themselves don't matter, they are just tokens to say thank you for exploring our world, we as developers hope you enjoyed exolpring to this area of the game. Sure that's nothing like more usable rewards like gold/rupees or actually usable loot or achievements to keep track of . . . things that a lot of people want to search for. It's these more usable loot items that many people want to search for and that's ok. It just means this kind of exploring the world is not for them and they would prefer different kinds of games.

Also watch this video:
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/threa...-breath-of-the-wild-was-made-as-it-was.59640/
It'll help explain many of the game design processes that Nintendo used to make Zelda Breath of the Wild the game that it is. These design processes are not everyone's cup of tea though but a certain portion of the gaming audience will love them.

You're highlighting one aspect of the game and making it much more important than it really is. The Legend of Zelda has never been about exploring just to take in the environments. That would be a really boring franchise. Nobody here is lost on what the game is, so you don't have to try and explain it. That would be like trying to tell someone who didn't like the linear design of Skyward Sword why the linear design was necessary.

The point is, some of us don't like that they've reworked the formula in a way that spreads itself too thin, that they've artificially beefed up what you can do in the world by adding tons of korok puzzles and substituting traditional dungeons with puzzles scattered throughout the world in the form of shrines.

No one is trying to downplay the beauty of the world or the sense of adventure. This game does that perfectly, but to say that the point or the reward is the world is simply not true. Nobody climbs a mountain in Breath of the Wild in hopes of seeing something beautiful at the top. They climb it in hopes of finding something of greater importance. Which in this game, is usually a korok puzzle or a shrine. Those 2 things exist as your reward for exploring. But for reasons I've already stated, I don't find it all that rewarding.

When I say the world is empty, I don't mean it literally. There's obviously a lot to take in, but the emptiness comes from its value. Why approach enemy camps? Why fight a Lynel or a Hinox? Because you can obviously, but you don't have to nor is there any reason to once you have a solid inventory as all you're ever going to be rewarded with is a bunch of materials or weak weapons. Which again, is nothing more than added fluff to prolong your game.

 

[Jirohnagi]

Bokoblins hide in camps and Lynels are non-aggressive. How did you "come across" them? It sounds like you were hunting them down...



Must have been reeeeeally lucky with Farosh then...



....OK I know Guardians are aggressive, but how did you get enough cores without farming them?



Well yes...but everything sans Ganon is optional Koroks still make up over 80% of the game and comprise of the same mundane tasks over and over.



What's the point of exploring when the world is empty, lifeless, and devoid of meaning?

What? Lynels are very aggressive if they see you, so much so that while climbing in the woodland region one of the assholes literally shot me off the cliff face despite me not being in physical line of site. Bokoblins will chase you fr a short period as well.

You can luck out on farosh, he pops up in 3 places more than the other two dragons. If you explore the woodland region, the hylia lake region and gerudo highlands.

The other points are valid

Well you just described almost every single video game ever created just now.


The world in this game is not empty or lifeless ir devoid of meaning though. What's the point of exploring it? That's up to each player to work that out for themselves. The player had to make their own reasons and find their own fun in the exploring. The player finds the fin for themselves here, as opposed to other games where the developer tells you where the fun is in a linear fashion.

I'll have to explain this in a different way so people understand.

Why do people go bush walking?
Why do people go camping out in the bush?
Why do people explore nature in general?

There is no side quests in real life, no puzzles to solve, to grand scheme of things to consider. People just go out doors and explore the world around them, because it's not part of their normal life, they find it relaxing and it gives them the opportunity to leave their busy lives behind for a time and they can really think about things deeply. Zelda: Breath of the Wild emulates this. That's the aim of the game. The lack of anything very structured to do is the whole charm of the game. If there's too much to do and the world is too busy then that sense of escapism and freedom is lost. The game's minimalistic soundtrack enforces this as well.

The areas in Breath of the Wild are far from empty. However what is there, is not what many people want to see in a video game. Walk to a cliff and see a waterfall. Many people would say that's boring, where's the things to do, where's the action, where's the reward. The reward here in this game is the waterfall ifself. Seeing it within the beautiful landscape. That's the thrill. The same can be said for mountain top views, vast grassy plains, desert oases (plural of oasis), vocanic areas, cold snow covered areas . . . and the list goes on and on. All of that is amazing to explore and discover. My only wish was that the game should have had a few more cave like areas to explore. But past that there is so much to explore and discover.

I believe many people are looking within the landscape for something and totally not realising that it's the landscape itself that is amazing and totally not empty at all. Even the occassional spots of wildflife in the game help keep the player immersed in the environment.

To those who think exploring Breath of the Wild is just exploring emptyness, I say they are either not understanding that exploring the environment itself is the reward or that this kind of game is not for them and they would prefer a game with more active linear rewards to search for, like loot or gold or achievements or something mroe tangible to keep track of.

The game does give you chests or korok seeds or weapons when you reach certain milestones in exploring, like reaching the top of a mountain or finding that little island or realising that lighter colour patch of eater on the map might have sunken treasure and it does. The rewards themselves don't matter, they are just tokens to say thank you for exploring our world, we as developers hope you enjoyed exolpring to this area of the game. Sure that's nothing like more usable rewards like gold/rupees or actually usable loot or achievements to keep track of . . . things that a lot of people want to search for. It's these more usable loot items that many people want to search for and that's ok. It just means this kind of exploring the world is not for them and they would prefer different kinds of games.

Also watch this video:
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/threa...-breath-of-the-wild-was-made-as-it-was.59640/
It'll help explain many of the game design processes that Nintendo used to make Zelda Breath of the Wild the game that it is. These design processes are not everyone's cup of tea though but a certain portion of the gaming audience will love them.

For me it's vastly empty wilderness, granted i've taken to shield surfin now. But i want to say this bar a few changes the overworld is vastly the same, you explore one forest and they all are the same, maybe theres a lake maybe theres not, who knows OH WAIT the map. The issue is there are no hidden little secrets or anything, the ingame map exposes it all as you find it

 

[the8thark]

you explore one forest and they all are the same

Not so. I've noticed the trees in the western areas are different from the more palm like trees of the jungles to the south, which are different again to the trees of the east/north east of the map. I noticed this while climbing many of these trees looking for korok seeds.

You are totally entitled to have your opinion and that's ok. There's not enough in BotW to give some enough sense of direction and enough tangible loot to search for. That's not a game flaw, it's just some games are not suited towards some people. BotW is not suited towards everyone.