ZD Members Vs. Mods Game Thread

[Sydney]

Atty, who would you say is the next most scummiest person, beside Fig?

hi

There's always JC, but he's leaning Town for me. I understand the concern surrounding a fake claim, and he could easily do so by consistently leading the Town, but I feel inclined to believe that he is Town. Sure he started (iirc) the Violet lynch, but she was inactive and suspicions were justified. Also, there have been no counter-claims for a Tracker, and it's not like the Tracker is an uncommon role, so it's probable that he's Pro-Town.

I believe there is a possibility that JC could be Mafia, and we shouldn't ignore that possibility, but he leans Town for me.

Trust me or not, but I don't fake claim.

We'll need a little more than your word to prove it. I had this idea in mind where we lynch Fig and see whether or not that'll confirm JC (although it really doesn't confirm anything, it'd lead us in a better direction, honestly). If we have two to three confirmed Townies, we can sift through the remaining players and discover who's Anti-Town.

My other suspicion would include Heroine, but I'm always suspicious of her. Her lack of activity has made me slightly concerned, but I'm eager to see her response before I accuse her of anything.

Also, has Vergo posted yet today? If not, I'd like to hear what he has to say about all of this. Another thing, if Dekunut is confirmed to be a Double Voter, then I'm inclined to believe he's Town-aligned. I find the possibility of a Mafia Double Voter to be rather unlikely.

 

[Fig]

Alright I'm just posting this right now, but I'll respond after church since I do need to get ready in a bit. I'm not exactly sure when I will post it but hopefully it should be by 4 if I manage my time. I just need to post this right now just to let you guys know what I will say later on today.

 

[Viral Maze]

Gosh dangit, Thar. Now it's going to look like I'm only posting because you voted for me. But I can't really wait any longer, so...

We're really not doing too well at this point, are we?

I've only barely been keeping up with this game, so I'm really kind of out of it right now. I didn't even realize that the cultist that died was formerly a SK... not sure how you guys even came to that conclusion. Hopefully that gives you an idea of how much I've missed. I've only skimmed a lot of posts in here, and I apologize. I'm, uh... not even sure how to go about this.

I don't have much to say at this point. JC's reasoning makes sense to me about Fig, but I'm still reluctant to blindly trust him because I haven't been paying close attention. I think I'm going to have to read through things a little closer. I'm not sure when I'll have time for that -- certainly not the rest of today and probably not tomorrow -- but... I'll work on it.

What if right this moment, HoT, everyone thought you were scum and we voted you up to Lynch-1. How would try to persuade us otherwise?

Alit targeted Kybyrian on Night One. My other investigations have failed. I tracked Findemaxa on Night Two and Thareous on Night Three. I didn't get any message back so I assumed it failed. Either they didn't target anyone, or I was RB'd.

Sounds legit... Looking back I can see why you'd target those 3 (still have to do some more digging though).

hi

There's always JC, but he's leaning Town for me. I understand the concern surrounding a fake claim, and he could easily do so by consistently leading the Town, but I feel inclined to believe that he is Town. Sure he started (iirc) the Violet lynch, but she was inactive and suspicions were justified. Also, there have been no counter-claims for a Tracker, and it's not like the Tracker is an uncommon role, so it's probable that he's Pro-Town.

I believe there is a possibility that JC could be Mafia, and we shouldn't ignore that possibility, but he leans Town for me.

So you and BOcto both have JC lined up as your #2 lynch option? Cool, cool.

 

[Sydney]

So you and BOcto both have JC lined up as your #2 lynch option? Cool, cool.

Not necessarily, unless we had effective evidence against JC, I wouldn't want to lynch him. Fig, at this moment, is our best lynch candidate.

 

[Justac00lguy]

Lynching me on the basis that "if we mislynch I'm scum" is just... baseless. I'm sorry but that's bad reasoning to determine whether I'm lying or not. My role has nothing to do with me voting Fig, I just properly role claimed so that I could be trusted a hit more when I wanted to push for a lynch. My vote for Fig has reason behind it, I haven't just pulled random facts out my ***.

Plus I wouldn't say I pioneered the lynch on Violet, Fig was the one pushing for the lynch he just didn't want to pull the trigger (odd right?), I don't have a guilty conscious so I didn't mind doing it. In fact it was the only rational lynch we had, no one came up with anything better, no alternatives, though it was those same people who waited until the next day to question it. The people who followed the bandwagon are more suspicious in my eyes, or the people who sat back and didn't offer any alternatives.

 

[Viral Maze]

JC, I just want to double check, but your softclaim stuff from yday was completely false right? Both softclaims.
Or was one of them correct?

I think I noticed a softclaim of your username from Day 1, so I just want to double check and see what's right.

EBWP:
JC: Also, if Fig flips town, who's your number 2?
And conversely, if he's scum, who's your number 2?

 

[Go_Dark_Link]

Alright, I don’t know how many posts I’ll be able to get in before the end of the day, but today I had some free time so I decided to look into my top suspicions in depth and go through their posts. I didn’t copy the links to all their posts, only the ones I thought to be interesting/important. Many of my comments are simply summaries or understanding of what was said in each post, but I’ve also written down my notes on some of them, as well as my conclusions afterwards. I didn’t know if you guys wanted to see all of my notes and thought processes, so I’m putting them in spoiler tags, but I’ll put my final conclusions afterwards.

justac00lguy

Spoiler

Day One
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=4&p=867754#post867754 votes for Fig Day One
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=11&p=868596#post868596 claims he will use Fig later on
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=12&p=868606#post868606 votes for Fig again
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=15&p=869050#post869050 Says he has a theory on what the third party is. Can you say what the theory is now? Also says Fig must be wanting to start stuff because he doesn’t have a big role.
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=18&p=869453#post869453 Prefers lynches with backbone.

Day Two
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=23&p=870751#post870751 says mafia probably tried to frame Fig by killing Stitch. Wants to look at people on Avatar’s lynch.
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=25&p=870867#post870867 again says Fig probably doesn’t have an important role. He is leaning town on Fig.
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=27&p=871173#post871173 Doesn’t want MF to use his role, too risky. Says if it had to be done, go for an inactive.
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=27&p=871278#post871278 Based on new information, now he thinks it’d be good to use MF’s role since he’s going to die soon anyway. Understandable. Says possible targets are Kybirian, ALiT, Heroine, Findemaxa, and myself.
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=28&p=871478#post871478 Kybirian best person for music to target he says
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=30&p=871650#post871650 starts discussing who we should lynch. Says we should go for an inactive/someone who is hiding in the shadows
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=30&p=871829#post871829 is suspicious of Heroine for providing her thoughts on the MF role until after it was too late to do anything
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=31&p=872039#post872039 Doesn’t like Fig isn’t taking action and voting for someone. Again says we should go for an inactive, even if they might be a power role. Says he always tries to instigate activity, even though it might cost him.
By this point, I’m leaning town on JC. His attitude is consistent and it doesn’t seem he’s trying to lead the town, just push it towards doing something so that it doesn’t die.
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=31&p=872044#post872044 Says he doesn’t like how people seem to be too shy to post. Says by this point he’d rather have a No Lynch, but that’s not a thing in the game. Votes for Violet so other people will be comfortable in doing so as well.
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=32&p=872119#post872119 suspicious of thareous for not providing alternatives to the Violet lynch. Reminds him of Heroine before.

Day Three
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=35&p=872743#post872743 Comments on how he finds it weird Mafia targeted findemaxa. However, thinks it is an ok night because findemaxa’s role could’ve been dangerous to the town. Says he will stick with Heroine and Thar as targets.
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=38&p=873738#post873738 Says the cop is a valuable asset and agrees with Fig that he should wait until he has a few more results before revealing. Says hopefully mafia won’t get lucky.
^This is where my thoughts on JC being town started changing again. He said exactly the same thing for which he is now accusing Fig. Even sounded like he also knew who the cop was and knew that ALiT wasn’t going to be able to say anything the next day. Is he trying to frame Fig for the same thing he did? Or are the two of them, perhaps, both in the mafia. He is trying to get Fig killed and when he turns out Mafia, thinks it will clear his name. It is possible. No mafia have died so far, and depending on how many there are it might be acceptable to sacrifice one in order to clear the names of the rest? Idk, might be overthinking this.

Day Four
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=41&p=874788#post874788 Says mafia might have already known the cop was going to die. Claims he was trying to get himself killed the day before to give the cop more time. Says at first he agreed with Fig, but now he suspects Fig. Also suspects Fig for blindly accepting Thar and his own softclaims. Adds up strange behavior, shying away, and reluctance to lynching Vio and votes for Fig.
At this point, I’m suspicious still, but it seems he acknowledges he did the same thing, so to me someone who is mafia and knows he is attacking someone for something he might get attacked as well, wouldn’t dare take the risk. So I feel like JC might be town again.
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=41&p=874861#post874861 Says cop could have investigated him or Thar the night before. Softclaims tracker.
My doubts on this softclaim were said in my previous post.
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=41&p=875022#post875022 Says it was Thar softclaiming that gave him the reason to claim as well. Thinks the mafia definitely has a cop.
Here, I’m confused. He is saying he wasn’t going to claim until someone else did, bringing him to do it? Wasn’t he earlier saying how people who waited for others to do things, for things to happen, rather than making them happen himself, were scummy??
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=42&p=875279#post875279 targeted ALiT N1 to see him going to Kybyrian, findemaxa N2, and Thar N3, both the latter two failed.
I find this interesting. I can see why you would target ALiT on N1 and then go with your pattern on Day Two, in which you said you thought either Kyby or Alit, among others, would be good targets for MF’s role. It makes sense since you saw ALiT go to Kyby at night, but nothing seemed to happen so either alit wasn’t a killing role, kyby was immune, or something went on. Either way I’d see why you would want to see them be proven town. And when Kyby was cleared, you probably trusted ALiT.
Reading through the other posts, I also see why Thar was good for N3 in your eyes, but I want to know why findemaxa on N2? I couldn’t gather any suspicions on them from your posts, so why go for them (who conveniently were also the mafia’s target) and not, say, ALiT again, seeing as you know he had the power to visit people, you knew he hadn’t killed Kyby (who was now confirmed town), and he might be town as well? I know you wouldn’t have known, but it would have been great if you kept tracking the cop because then we would be able to see who he targeted and make conclusions from the info. So, JC, why findemaxa?
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=42&p=875298#post875298 Finally, his most recent posts saying he didn’t lead the Violet lynch, and was only the first to vote because Fig was scared to do so.

SO after all of this, I’m left with a big IDK on JC. He has the most posts in the game, and my opinions changed again and again as I read all of them. At times he leans heavily town for me, at others he seems like clear mafia. At the moment, I think he is very NEUTRAL in my eyes, but leaning slightly towards TOWN a bit more. Hopefully more evidence will arise from today and tonight and he will move definitely towards one side, or another.


Fig

Spoiler

Day One
Most of the early posts from Fig on this day were either fluff or jokes or asking for a vote count. This is the only one that caught a bit of my attention:
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=5&p=867783#post867783 Says he knows what is to be expected “tonight”. How can you get that from a vote count?
Then, the Fig/Stitch thing begins.
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=8&p=868255#post868255 Questions Stitch on why he hasn’t posted much.
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=9&p=868269#post868269 Suspects Stitch for not posting even though he hangs out in the chatbox.
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=9&p=868272#post868272 Tells Stitch that just because he voted for Pendio who could be mafia already doesn’t mean he can’t post anymore.
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=11&p=868588#post868588 Unvotes Pendio and votes for JC, though it seems to be for the sake of the joke.
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=11&p=868597#post868597 Makes joke of wanting JC gone.
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=12&p=868607#post868607 Becomes very suddenly aggressive on Stitch’s comment. Accuses him again of being on the chartbox and only posting when someone else posts.
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=12&p=868613#post868613 When accused by Stitch of going after him for no reason, says that he isn’t going after him else he would’ve voted. Says if he wanted Stitch gone he would’ve tried to get others to vote for him until he was confirmed as a “fellow townsman”
Here Fig tries to make emphasis on how he himself is also a town member. Just a comment, but it reminds me of a game long ago in which I made the mistake on the first day of commenting in a way to make it clear that I was a town member saying “us town”, which got everyone suspicious of me. Turns out, I was the Godfather.
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=12&p=868671#post868671 People began accusing Fig of being too harsh on Stitch, some in a joking manner. He responds very seriously and says Stitch caused another game to be lost because he only posted when someone else posted, even though he was online. Seems kind of a rushed argument.
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=13&p=868678#post868678 Stitch tries to defends himself, and Fig continued going after him. Rambles on about other games and how Stitch should keep posting as much as he can even after he votes to get other people to understand his vote, or simply to keep activity going. Seems like a very useless discussion.
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=13&p=868693#post868693 In my opinion, Fig starts becoming very irrational. Stitch tells him the things he is saying are from other games, and that he in no way was forcing a Pendio lynch. Fig starts talking about how he posts extremely little in every game and that he should try to keep posting whenever he can and that he is skeptical of what role he may be.
Then, in his next post, anything related to Stitch is completely forgotten.
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=14&p=868893#post868893 Talks about LG’s softclaim and how he does believe he is Dan and how he doesn’t know whether he’s town or third party.
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=15&p=869063#post869063 Musicfan accuses him of not responding to an accusation, to which Fig asks what he is talking about.
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=15&p=869067#post869067 Explains he isn’t using chatbox as evidence. Responds to MF saying he isn’t wishy washy and that he is taking the day 1 seriously because there isn’t anything but spam going on and he’s trying to do something, while knowing that the people staying in the shadows usually survive and claims he will probably get killed at night or lynched.
So why are you still alive?
After some empty posts, the day nears end:
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=18&p=869573#post869573 Unvotes and votes for Pendio, saying either him or Avatar Flygon could be scum and that if they are tied the outcome should be interesting. Everything to do with Stitch seems to be forgotten.
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=18&p=869577#post869577 Says his idea of leaving it to chance isn’t a plan but a guess, and that he is aware it is risky.

Day Two (Stitch has died)
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=28&p=871358#post871358 Starts by saying that he admits he was being too aggressive with Stitch, claims Stitch’s logic had flaws and thought he might’ve been mafia (though he didn’t ever vote for Stitch) and says he knew one of the two would be killed to frame the other, and that he is sorry Stitch had to be the doctor and die. Says he thinks Stitch might have saved him from an attack. Then answers JC and says he stands by his claim that you can never trust experienced players. Says town should look into people who don’t post much. Finally, questions Findemaxa on his activity and ends by saying he still feels Pendio could be mafia.
To me, it seems strange he was attacking Stitch for thinking he was mafia, but then never voted for him. However, I understand his claims, at least up to this point.
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=28&p=871459#post871459 Asks if anyone else wondered about Kybyrian voting for music after he had already claimed.
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=30&p=871838#post871838 Agrees with JC on going for someone who is hiding in the background.
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=31&p=872020#post872020 Says Violet might be a good lynch choice but is scared she might be a PR.
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=31&p=872036#post872036 Responds to JC’s question on voting by saying they should look at all possibilities first.
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=31&p=872043#post872043 Says he is scared to vote Violet because people would flip out and call him scum if she turns out town and a PR.
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=31&p=872049#post872049 Finally votes on Violet after JC votes on her as well. Says he knows someone will flip out about it.
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=32&p=872090#post872090 Talks about how Violet is probably a VT or a mafia goon, since if she had a power role she would be more active.

Day Three
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=37&p=873331#post873331 Acknowledges Keith is probably going to be lynched and says he understands why. Also notes other people’s comments on JC switching targets too often. Then he advices the cop to stay low until he has two or three mafia members down before revealing.
^This is the post that JC referenced to accuse Fig. I must say, knowing what we know now it does seem kind of suspicious that Fig wanted the cop not to say anything, but to me it isn’t any more suspicious than what JC did (see my analysis of his posts above to see what I mean, in case you skipped it)
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=38&p=873711#post873711 Says that the two softclaims were confirmed members.
I also commented earlier in the game on how you should never trust softclaims so blatantly, like JC did, so I admit I do find this post very suspicious. Only mafia would know for certain two softclaims for town are, in fact, not mafia. Well, mafia and the cop, but we know that’s not you.

Day Four
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48538&page=42&p=875284#post875284 Latest post, saying he will post later.

Now, I know we are still halfway through this day, but if you’ve been reading like me, you’ve seen an obvious pattern. Now, I didn’t post links to all fifty of his posts here, but it is still very evident that his posting has gone down dramatically from Day One. Now, this might be due to reasons outside the game, and I’d understand that seeing as my time is also constrained by real life right now, but I find it highly suspicious. Why? Well because his entire argument with Stitch on Day One was based on the fact that Stitch wasn’t posting very much.



Now, after both of those analysis and long time spent going over the posts, I’ve come to conclusions. As I mentioned, I am very neutral on JC, but leaning slightly towards town. With Fig, however, I’m also neutral on him, but I am leaning slightly to him being mafia. But then, I have a feeling that the two of them are on the same team.
So one, either they are both town members arguing with each other over incriminating circumstances and mafia is just hanging back and watching them kill each other.
OR, as I mentioned earlier, they are both mafia and JC is trying to clear his name by getting rid of Fig. So now, I’m going to

Vote: Fig

He is the one that I think has a higher chance of being mafia. If he does turn out to be mafia, then I am still suspicious of JC (which seems odd, I know, but that’s what my gut feeling is telling me). However, if he turns out as town, while I won’t think JC is confirmed as town, I feel like he has more chances of being town because I feel like a mafia member wouldn’t attack a town member so vehemently, knowing they’re town and that they would look bad the next day.

Of course, this by no means means my vote is final. I want to hear what Fig says first, as well as what others think, and when I have more time I also want to look into other members past posts, like I did for these two, particularly Pendio and Thareous. However, for now this is what I think and my vote remains.

 

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

I'm honestly not convinced of this Fig bandwagon - where were all these suspicions yesterday? And was Keith truly a bigger target yesterday than Fig was to most of you? I really didn't think Keith was mafia, and although he ended up having a not pro-town role, the "evidence" against him turned out to be nothing.

I have something I'm working on right now, which hopefully I can post before the day ends. But again, I don't like the way this bandwagon is shaping up, and how early it was started.

 

[Justac00lguy]

JC, I just want to double check, but your softclaim stuff from yday was completely false right? Both softclaims.
Or was one of them correct?

My first softclaim was absolutely true and it was completely coincidental that I claimed Mandy. I wanted to softclaim a member who would fit the role of Cop best (as, like I said, I wanted the Mafia to kill me).

JC: Also, if Fig flips town, who's your number 2?
And conversely, if he's scum, who's your number 2?

Most likely Thareous. I don't like his playstyle this game, his softclaim as Axle seems erks me a bit, and I think Alit most likely targeted him last night before he died. However, I'm not going to take Alit's words that he definitely found scum, he could have confirmed me or Thareous (or another member). Other members I'm wary of are Heroine and Dekunut - these are just hunches though.

EBWODP

Oh and in response to Dark Link:

I targeted her because, and I think I mentioned this earlier in the game, she is quite new to Mafia (at least on ZD) so I can't pin point her playstyle, general personality etc. I wanted some piece of mind so to say as I knew my hunch would most likely get the better of me of she started to act slightly suspicious.

EBWOTP

Oh and I see why people may find me suspicious. I mean, in a way, it's how I play (quite straight to the point) and sort of pioneering in a way. So if Fig does flip Town then I'll most likely accept everyone's decision to lynch me, but honestly, why would I fake claim a popular role and a player who is definite pick to take part in this theme?

 

[Mido]

Hmm....

I'm not quite sold on the Fig votes, not that the reasoning doesn't hold some ground. Mainly, there have been other things that I've been concerned about regarding our players of the game. The two players? JC and Atticus. In light of recent events, I may have to rethink these concerns, but below, you guys can at least see what I was wondering last night and at the start of the day:

Justac00lguy

The initial thing that had me worried about JC was his lack of input on the Keith debacle of yesterday. He disappeared from the action, or at least seemed to distance himself from the matter if anything. The whole situation drew a mixed reaction, and I was surprised not to see input from JC, who has been active for the most part. I think he justified his inactivity by saying that he was trying to draw the Mafia on him.

Then, he claims Tracker. The claim has forced me to rethink my point, since it could very well be true. Still, I recently saw his list of targets, and something doesn't seem quite right to me:

Alit targeted Kybyrian on Night One. My other investigations have failed. I tracked Findemaxa on Night Two and Thareous on Night Three. I didn't get any message back so I assumed it failed. Either they didn't target anyone, or I was RB'd. I figure I might die soon enough anyway, so this Role claim really isn't a big risk in my eyes.

His targets may indeed be true, but part of me thinks that his targets may have been fabricated. ALIT targeting Kybyrian seems like a easy choice given Kybyrian is an experienced player, and is threatening as scum, and town. In that respect, ALIT's targeting seems like an easily logical choice. As for the rest being failures, I'm puzzled by that. Part of me wants to say that this part of the target list is just an attempt to remain discreet to avoid a slip; however, a roleblocker could have found him as well, as JC said. (I'll have to check Day 1 again to see if JC drew attention to himself in any way.)

Overall, I have to agree with GDL. JC appears to have a neutral tinge to his playstyle. I don't necessarily think he's scum, but rather, I'm actually thinking he may be the Cult Leader. This all depends, of course, on his claim being false.

I have to leave at the moment, so my concerns on Atty will come later. Feedback is appreciated! :yes:

EBWODP

Quote Break....

EBWOTP


Looking back, there's a flaw in my JC argument. He doesn't have any jurisdiction over ALIT's investigation choice. I didn't keep in mind his Tracker role. Like I said above, I'll be back later with the rest. My apologies! :yes:

 

[Viral Maze]

I have to leave at the moment, so my concerns on Atty will come later. Feedback is appreciated! :yes:

Yus, I'd like to see that..

ALso, wheres fig?

 

[Sydney]

I have to leave at the moment, so my concerns on Atty will come later. Feedback is appreciated! :yes:

Yus, I'd like to see that..

 

[Fig]

Ok, so either Mafia completely took a shot at members who were inactive, or they have a role cop and actually found Alit a previous night. Ugh, this is going horrible, I tried to get Mafia to kill me last night, but it obviously didn't work - I thought they would have took a hint that I could have been the Cop, but obviously they saw through it, which once again brings me to believe their role cop investigated Alit the night before.

---

Now that I think of it, if this is what happened--Mafia having a role cop--then this post starts to stand out:



Initially I agreed with Fig, but now I'm not so sure about his hidden motive here. I agree that it was premature for the cop to claim as we wanted to get as much useful information as possible before Mafia got him; however what we didn't know was that we were going to lose our Cop straight after. So this post seems odd and quite coincidental in my eyes now. Mafia most likely targeted Alit with their Role Cop on Night Two and then Fig tells the Cop not to claim, and then the Cop dies the night later. See what I mean? It seems like a plan put in place, the Mafia may have had Alit set in their sights ever since the end of Night Two and tried subtlety to prevent him possibly claiming which could have hurt them.

Losing our cop was either pure dumb luck or the mafia has their own cop and found out that Alit was the cop and wanted to kill him to be on the safe side which makes a lot of sense. I don't see how me saying that the cop should keep lurking makes me sound like scum since in retrospect do you really wanted our cop to have said something and we still lost him on the next day. If Alit found two members of mafia, we could easily have done two easy lynches instead of him stating we had just one person and we still lose him either way. Even Pendio agreed with me in that sense, yet I'm the one being called out.

As I think more about this situation, this post also stands out to me:



Me and Thar softclaimed, but you should never trust said claims. The fact that Fig acknowledged these as confirmations erks me. It's either inexperience or it could be that he believes us simply because he knows we're both Town due to the fact that he's scum. If you think about it that could be the case. You add this with his strange behaviour on Day One, his shying away on Day Two, and his reluctant attitude to lynching Violet on Day Three them you have, what seems to me, a possible lead.

I sat back yesterday as I wanted to deliberately try and get Mafia to target me last night, and as such I didn't want to get lynched as I wanted to try and give the Cop some more time. I guess I failed, but it looks like Mafia already had their target set. Now though, well...

Vote: Fig

I wasn't really confirming that you are those roles, but rather that it's possible that both Pancake and Mandy are roles in this game considering this a community-based game and Pancake and Mandy are both well-known across the community. As for you trying to get the attention of the mafia, I doubt just using softclaims was even enough. Since this game is Members Vs Mods, if you were softclaiming as Pancake or Mandy I'm sure the mafia wasn't even going to pay any attention even though you softclaimed twice. Why? Well think about it. Since Pancake and Mandy are members, they obviously don't align with mafia. If Pancake is a role, I would only see him as a VT on the account that well the mods of this game probably don't like him as much as others. Why do you think Atty is the doctor in the first place? Also makes sense that Alit is the cop since apparently he stalks people even though I have personally have yet to seen it. And on another note, that would make the role of Gumball a member of the cult since Octo and Gumball are practically inseparable. I personally think Pancake and Mandy would be VTs in this game using this logic and if that's the case than that would make sense that the mafia would not go after you because your softclaims are probably not important compared to the cop, in this case Alit.

I feel like Fig would be a decent candidate for a lynch today, as I find it awfully strange that he's managed to survive this long now. Granted we still have quite a few people left, I thought he would've been a target for the Mafia by now, but apparently that doesn't seem so. I don't want to outright claim that Fig is mafia, but if he continues to survive (especially after that lengthy argument with Stitch, our doctor, and playing with a somewhat aggressive demeanor) I'll be worried.

There are two possibilities for Fig if he is anti-town (these are just my opinions):

Mafia Role-Cop: It could explain why he wanted to confirm Thar and JC's softclaims, and maybe he'd debate with his fellow mafiaso over which ones would result in a more prominent power role.

Mentor/Cultist: Taking the softclaims into account, maybe he was trying to rid the Town of power roles and use them to his advantage?

These are just theories, and I admit that they lack a lot of evidence, but I'd like to know what you guys think.

FoS/IGMEOY: Fig

If we can gather more evidence against him, then I'll place my vote on him, but for now I'll keep my eye on him.

I find it really peculiar that only now you decide to respond after a while and immediately started to focus on me. Yes I did had an abusive demeanor earlier in the game with our doctor, but you can't expect that I knew Stitch was the doctor from the start, that was just stupid luck from the mafia. One question I do have to ask you though: Why only focus on me simply because of my aggressive behavior when JC is trying to distance himself from the Violet lynch? Yes I know I was part of the lynch too, but JC really sounds like he's trying to distance himself from the lynch when the two of us have equal part on it.

Soft claims are so easy to make this game that I hesitate to call anything "confirmed".

We'll just have to wait and see.

This posted after Thar claimed Axle and JC claimed Mandy (or Pan?) meaning he didn't believe them.

Earlier in the game he FoS'd Atticus and voted Keith. He didn't post much but going from that alone, its somewhat safe to say he might have investigated Atty or Thar or JC last night.
I'm leaning that his result came back as Mafia rather than townie (implied through his last post). So I think we have something between those 3... At least 1.

I don't mean to derail the Fig-wagon, but I'm also looking at Mido as possible scum.
I'll go through Fig's posts too now (solely his) and see what comes up. I'd rather us focus our efforts in a concerted form, rather than take pot shots and different players and leave the lynch up to chance (rather than an informed majority).

But yeah, just posting so you all know who I'm suspicious of. I'll post a bit more tonight. I just read 600 posts in 1 sitting >_>

Yes I do have to agree with Viral here. From ALIT's post before he died, it appears he doesn't believe the softclaims that JC provided because it is possible that he observed JC a previous night but he probably didn't want to sound like the cop so he tried to be a neutral as possible which could make a lot of sense. And when you think about it, the same could apply to even Atts. He voted for Keith yes, but he still Fos'd against Atticus which means he must have either found us another target subtly while trying to not sound so much like a cop. I will keep searching for possible hints that he might have let or found something in his previous posts.

Trust me or not, but I don't fake claim.

Who's to say that you are not fake claiming in this game. Simply saying that you don't fake claim doesn't mean people should trust you. That's similar to saying we should trust players who have been playing longer when they could be be scum. And yes I'll refer to the Green Lantern mafia game. Every member of scum was an experienced player so to speak and combined with their analysis and thoughts, I trusted them only to have been stabbed in the back by the end of the game. Anyone could potentially say that they don't fake claim just to make it seem that they could be trusted when it reality we are given are trust to people who will kill us in the end.

Lynching me on the basis that "if we mislynch I'm scum" is just... baseless. I'm sorry but that's bad reasoning to determine whether I'm lying or not. My role has nothing to do with me voting Fig, I just properly role claimed so that I could be trusted a hit more when I wanted to push for a lynch. My vote for Fig has reason behind it, I haven't just pulled random facts out my ***.

As I stated above, you are probably using this claim of yours to ensure that you can be trusted, yet I personally don't trust you especially since you constantly jump on a player practically every day except for the first day. You never really just only have one person throughout the duration of the day as you always have have at least 3-4 people you find scummy or not aligned with town, as far as I see it.

Plus I wouldn't say I pioneered the lynch on Violet, Fig was the one pushing for the lynch he just didn't want to pull the trigger (odd right?), I don't have a guilty conscious so I didn't mind doing it. In fact it was the only rational lynch we had, no one came up with anything better, no alternatives, though it was those same people who waited until the next day to question it. The people who followed the bandwagon are more suspicious in my eyes, or the people who sat back and didn't offer any alternatives.

As I stated in the previous day. I was for the lynch for Violet yet I personally didn't want to sound like I was solely targeting people. Targeting people for a lynch is already a risk because if that player does flip town all suspicion would be laid on that player and another town would be lost. In this case, I figured that if I started the vote for Violet and she ended up as town, I'm sure I would have have been killed or lynched later on in the game almost immediately. But moving on, you stated that I had a guilty conscious simply because I didn't want to start the lynch on Violet. If I did had a guilty conscious, I would have been hesitant on voting Violet even though I was the one that stated that Violet was a decent chance of being lynched. Yet I didn't as I immediately voted as soon as soon as you voted for Violet. Though after that, the way how you worded your posts, you make it seem like you are trying to distance yourself from the Violet lynch even though we knew that are chances of killing scum was very low to begin with. Perhaps you are trying to do so because we killed a townie and you simply are trying to gain credibility? This is why I really can't trust you. I would try to explain more in detail but I think Mido was able to do that better with his post.

Hmm....

I'm not quite sold on the Fig votes, not that the reasoning doesn't hold some ground. Mainly, there have been other things that I've been concerned about regarding our players of the game. The two players? JC and Atticus. In light of recent events, I may have to rethink these concerns, but below, you guys can at least see what I was wondering last night and at the start of the day:

Justac00lguy

The initial thing that had me worried about JC was his lack of input on the Keith debacle of yesterday. He disappeared from the action, or at least seemed to distance himself from the matter if anything. The whole situation drew a mixed reaction, and I was surprised not to see input from JC, who has been active for the most part. I think he justified his inactivity by saying that he was trying to draw the Mafia on him.

Then, he claims Tracker. The claim has forced me to rethink my point, since it could very well be true. Still, I recently saw his list of targets, and something doesn't seem quite right to me:

Alit targeted Kybyrian on Night One. My other investigations have failed. I tracked Findemaxa on Night Two and Thareous on Night Three. I didn't get any message back so I assumed it failed. Either they didn't target anyone, or I was RB'd. I figure I might die soon enough anyway, so this Role claim really isn't a big risk in my eyes.

His targets may indeed be true, but part of me thinks that his targets may have been fabricated. ALIT targeting Kybyrian seems like a easy choice given Kybyrian is an experienced player, and is threatening as scum, and town. In that respect, ALIT's targeting seems like an easily logical choice. As for the rest being failures, I'm puzzled by that. Part of me wants to say that this part of the target list is just an attempt to remain discreet to avoid a slip; however, a roleblocker could have found him as well, as JC said. (I'll have to check Day 1 again to see if JC drew attention to himself in any way.)

Overall, I have to agree with GDL. JC appears to have a neutral tinge to his playstyle. I don't necessarily think he's scum, but rather, I'm actually thinking he may be the Cult Leader. This all depends, of course, on his claim being false.

I have to leave at the moment, so my concerns on Atty will come later. Feedback is appreciated! :yes:

EBWODP

Quote Break....

EBWOTP


Looking back, there's a flaw in my JC argument. He doesn't have any jurisdiction over ALIT's investigation choice. I didn't keep in mind his Tracker role. Like I said above, I'll be back later with the rest. My apologies! :yes:

I can somewhat understand where he's coming from as again, as JC to me at least, seems to be all over the place from my personal view. For now that's all I have to say when it comes to the game.

EBWODP

I forgot to fix Mido's quote break.

 

[Mido]

Yus, I'd like to see that..

ALso, wheres fig?

Yus, I'd like to see that..

Here's the score:

Atticus

Like with JC, but to a lesser extent, I didn't catch any concrete substance regarding the controversial Keith situation. Inactivity-wise, I'm.not sure if you were still busy with exams at the time like ALIT mentioned, Atty, but I thought his post regarding your substance was interesting. (In regard to your asking of questions and such.) Your post about Mandy and Axle being mods in the game puzzled me, mainly because I'm under the assumption that our current mods, or some of them, are our mafia. Of course, I have no way of confirming this since no scum were lynched thus far. Part of me thought at the time that your thoughts were perhaps just an effort to look more contributive and blend in.

The second thing revolves around Viral's thoughts on whom ALIG investigated. ALIT cast the FOS on you, and perhaps he investigated you? Alas, there is no way to concretely prove this since our friend is dead.

Ultimately, for both players of my concern, their activity at certain points forms the basis of what I find uncanny about them. If said inactivity is genuine, which I'm sure is likely given all these exams and tests, I apologize for the advances.

Note: I just posted via mobile, so these points may look unclear. I'll gather the quotations I mentioned in order to clean up the mess.

 

[Justac00lguy]

Losing our cop was either pure dumb luck or the mafia has their own cop and found out that Alit was the cop and wanted to kill him to be on the safe side which makes a lot of sense. I don't see how me saying that the cop should keep lurking makes me sound like scum since in retrospect do you really wanted our cop to have said something and we still lost him on the next day. If Alit found two members of mafia, we could easily have done two easy lynches instead of him stating we had just one person and we still lose him either way. Even Pendio agreed with me in that sense, yet I'm the one being called out.

Yes I acknowledged that I initially agreed with you, but the key word is "initially". New information changes the way actions and posts are interpreted previously. What seemed to me like a ok post a agreed with all of a sudden looks like a tactical post in the hypothetical situation that you were scum.

Of course this in in working on hypotheticals in a way, but I think it's rather coincidental as well. Mafia could have just hit pure luck again, or they had a role cop. The latter seems more logical in my eyes. It makes sense that Mafia would, given this new information, would want to prevent the cop from claiming. This is where your post comes into play as it's placed right in the middle of the events: Role Cop potentially investigates Alit -> You tell the Cop not to investigate -> Alit dies the fowling night. It was a clever move if that was the case.

I wasn't really confirming that you are those roles, but rather that it's possible that both Pancake and Mandy are roles in this game considering this a community-based game and Pancake and Mandy are both well-known across the community.

You said "Pancake and Mandy respectively confirmed" in relation to mine and Thar's claims. There was no questioning and we could have easily been lying. I'm sorry but I just don't believe that is what you were saying.

As for you trying to get the attention of the mafia, I doubt just using softclaims was even enough. Since this game is Members Vs Mods, if you were softclaiming as Pancake or Mandy I'm sure the mafia wasn't even going to pay any attention even though you softclaimed twice. Why? Well think about it. Since Pancake and Mandy are members, they obviously don't align with mafia. If Pancake is a role, I would only see him as a VT on the account that well the mods of this game probably don't like him as much as others. Why do you think Atty is the doctor in the first place? Also makes sense that Alit is the cop since apparently he stalks people even though I have personally have yet to seen it. And on another note, that would make the role of Gumball a member of the cult since Octo and Gumball are practically inseparable. I personally think Pancake and Mandy would be VTs in this game using this logic and if that's the case than that would make sense that the mafia would not go after you because your softclaims are probably not important compared to the cop, in this case Alit.

Mandy makes a rather decent fit for a Cop in my eyes, such is why Draco made her have a similar role of sorts as a tracker. Tracker and Cop sort of go hand in hand in a way - both are investigation-like roles. Knowing that I already have her role made the claim much safer in relation to the fact that if I did fake claim then I would be in trouble. Mandy, in my opinion, was a good softclaim for a Cop. Alit probably would have been a better option most likely, but apart from that, who else?

Also the pan soft claim sort of acted as bail out card. I didn't want to make it obvious that I was soft claiming as Cop as it would in hindsight it looked rather obvious. Mafia could have easily seen my move as I was just literally talking about the importance of keeping the Cop alive. It was an over complicated move by myself that I think Mafia probably wouldn't haven't looked that much into. Like I said though, there NK target was already set.

Who's to say that you are not fake claiming in this game. Simply saying that you don't fake claim doesn't mean people should trust you. That's similar to saying we should trust players who have been playing longer when they could be be scum. And yes I'll refer to the Green Lantern mafia game. Every member of scum was an experienced player so to speak and combined with their analysis and thoughts, I trusted them only to have been stabbed in the back by the end of the game. Anyone could potentially say that they don't fake claim just to make it seem that they could be trusted when it reality we are given are trust to people who will kill us in the end.

The prefect disguise argument, right?

I don't fake claim though, never have and most like never will apart from joking. I don't like the risk involved in doing so. I guess you could say me trying to softclaim as Cop was "fake" but in a way it wasn't. My claim is very risky of it were to be fake. Why would I claim a common role in quite a role filled game? Why would I also claim a member who is most likely to appear in the game?

As I stated above, you are probably using this claim of yours to ensure that you can be trusted, yet I personally don't trust you especially since you constantly jump on a player practically every day except for the first day. You never really just only have one person throughout the duration of the day as you always have have at least 3-4 people you find scummy or not aligned with town, as far as I see it.

Of course I'm using it be trusted that's why I full on claimed this day. I like to sort of take action sometimes, and to do so I like to be trusted. I did the same in Pirates were I was a Dreaming God, I didn't have to role claim then, but more so earn my trust. I feel trust is a big asset to my playstyle.

Also my playstyle is pretty straight to the point and slightly aggressive. I like to put people under pressure basically. Oh and having multiple suspicions is common, you can't limit your view to one person. Anyway, if this is your reasoning then it's pretty bad for finding me scummy as I play this way all the time and 90% of the time I'm Town. It's not scummy, it's just the way I play.

As I stated in the previous day. I was for the lynch for Violet yet I personally didn't want to sound like I was solely targeting people. Targeting people for a lynch is already a risk because if that player does flip town all suspicion would be laid on that player and another town would be lost. In this case, I figured that if I started the vote for Violet and she ended up as town, I'm sure I would have have been killed or lynched later on in the game almost immediately. But moving on, you stated that I had a guilty conscious simply because I didn't want to start the lynch on Violet. If I did had a guilty conscious, I would have been hesitant on voting Violet even though I was the one that stated that Violet was a decent chance of being lynched. Yet I didn't as I immediately voted as soon as soon as you voted for Violet. Though after that, the way how you worded your posts, you make it seem like you are trying to distance yourself from the Violet lynch even though we knew that are chances of killing scum was very low to begin with. Perhaps you are trying to do so because we killed a townie and you simply are trying to gain credibility? This is why I really can't trust you. I would try to explain more in detail but I think Mido was able to do that better with his post.

That's exactly why I think, to some degree, you had a guilty conscious; you were to scared to start the lynch in the case that you couldn't defend yourself. Townies tend to be more confident and therefore are more clinical on their targets. Mafia tip toe around, wait for people to make the first move etc. This is exactly what you did on that day. You stated basically what I said in a post previous yet still you didn't make a decision. You were to busy thinking about what would happen after which is were the guilty conscious comes into play. I was naturally more confident in that position while you weren't willing to make the move. It wasn't a risky move yet you were still hesitant to make it.

Distance myself how exactly? I was the one who recommended that we go for an inactive player in the first place and as a result I take full responsibility for the lynch. It was the best and less riskiest option we had. No one had any better options. I waited for alternatives, I waited for people to question my reasoning yet those people stay quiet until the lynch was confirmed.

I can somewhat understand where he's coming from as again, as JC to me at least, seems to be all over the place from my personal view. For now that's all I have to say when it comes to the game.

Explain...

As far as I'm aware, I've been very forward with why I did what I did. The only thing I can see as being curious is me softclaiming as Pan as well as Mandy, but I explained that I was over thinking things at that point and made my claim crystal clear to correct any misconceptions and confusions associated with that specifc claim.