Wind Waker or Twilight Princess?

[ReveredPartisan]

They're actually very similar games. I'd say without a doubt that the Zelda game most similar to WW is TP, and the game most similar to TP is WW. It's no surprise, seeing as they were made for the same system in the same era under the same direction.

My favorite is TP; the cinematography is the best in the series by far, the music is superior, the stakes higher and more immediate, the characters are more desperate, the dungeons are more developed and items more unique, the visuals are more intricate (just look at the vistas throughout Hyrule), and so on. But that's not to say that WW is lacking here; these two games have a lot in common that push them above the rest of the series:

• Developed Characters-- probably the only two games to properly disect their major characters along a properly developing narrative. MM did this too obviously, but the plot structure was too unconventional to achieve the same effect.
• Similar pacing-- a thorough intro and a whole unraveling dramatic progression all preceding the first dungeon. Then the plot moves quickly into the post-third dungeon plot twist, then an intermediary dungeon (a turning point), 2-3 more dungeons with a more open world, and the conclusion.
• Cast-- OoT allies you with royalty and the Sages. MM with the Four Giants, SS with Impa and Zelda and so on. Always a divine or mystical being. WW turns away from this, and TP scraps it almost entirely. Your allies in these games, with the exception of I suppose your partner, are down to earth, seemingly run of the mill individuals with a remarkable capacity for courage and self-sacrifice. The Pirates, Medli and Komali and Quill, Aryll, Renado, Telma and the Group, Ilia and the Gorons and Ralis, etc. The people who are most directly involved in your quest, whom you care most about and are closest to, are not sages or kings or princesses or ancient warriors who know everything about everything (again with the exception of Midna and the KoRL), but normal people, not locked away in some otherworldly chamber, but out in the field with you, tasting the grit and the blood of hardship and pushing past it for the sake of one another, and that is a remarkably powerful distinction from the other games.
• Tone-- Yeah, this is odd to say looking at the visual differences, but take away the aesthetic and you have two very similar stories, rivaling one another both in scope and in their personal quality, and with similar themes and internal conflicts.
• Eloquence-- these two games are the most confident in storytelling and theme, along with MM probably. Maybe that's subjective. Just a feeling I get.
• Controls-- especially combat. Similar schemes, by far the most nuanced and fluent action in the entire series. I'd say TP probably has a leg up here because of the hidden skills and just the more polished feel.

One final note: comparing Ganondorf in WW and Ganondorf in TP is defunct on principle. They don't fulfill the same purpose as antagonists. WW Ganon parallels Daphnes and demonstrates lingering human attachment and the inability to leave the past behind oneself, a major theme of the game. TP Ganon serves as a counterpoint to Zant (who in turn fulfills the role of WW Ganon, the sympathetic villain with a fatal flaw), in that he is necessary to complete the latter's character, and himself is monstrous and selfish and arrogant and chiefly embodying that omnipotent human creation of unadulterated cruelty. This is why he feels so right as the conclusion to TP, as he undermines every value and selfless act demonstrated by the cast of the game.

 

[SPG]

It just felt like Ganondorf was just shoehorned into it right at the end for no good reason. If Zant wasn't a pawn, he would have made a better main villian then Ganon actually did

 

[Feverish]

It just felt like Ganondorf was just shoehorned into it right at the end for no good reason. If Zant wasn't a pawn, he would have made a better main villian then Ganon actually did

Story-wise that would've been the better choice, but man the fight with Ganondorf was fun

 

[SPG]

Story-wise that would've been the better choice, but man the fight with Ganondorf was fun

Absolutely. But I'm sure if Zant was the main villian they would have ramped up the fight against him for sure

 

[Dio]

In Twilight Princess, it would have been a lot nicer if he had a motive... He literally had no purpose, like Vaat in Four Swords Adventures. He was just doing it because he could, which makes for a ****ty villain.

TP is a sequel to OOT. You know what Ganondord wanted from that game, but due to Links actions he was actually stopped from obtaining Hyrule and executed. In TP we see the effect his escape from the Twilight had on hyrule with the byproduct being Zant. You also defeat Ganondorf before he can actually finish what he began so we do not really see it in action.

That said, I would have preferred to see Ganondorf begin to take the land over and begin the apocalypse which would have happened during Links 7 year sleep in OOT.

 

[DeactivatedUser2]

In TP he was executed for being a douche, and to him he was randomly brought back by the godesses and they gave him a part of their power, all randomly. He felt entitled to do whatever he wanted, and he thought the godesses their selves were pushing him on. He's completely opposite from WW Ganon who was more strategical while TP Ganon was a beast, quite literally. I felt that TP Ganon wrecked hell for fun, and I can appreciate that. I will say though that TP could've done a better job of building Ganon up. To quote a good article I read up on,"
What it should do, though, is open the door for Ganondorf to continually manipulate Zant into doing his bidding. Most likely he did this once already: you could make a case that he pushed for Zant to invade Hyrule in order to reestablish a pathway for the Gerudo himself to return to that world. But there should at least be more points in the game where it becomes clear that assaulting this world was not Zant's idea. Midna could be confused by it; Zelda and the Light Spirits could question his motives; heck, Zant could even dismiss them with a simple "I need not understand my god's will", unwittingly admitting that he's just as clueless.

And once the Dark Lord has fulfilled his goal of escaping the Twilight Realm (which, I should probably mention, I'm presuming takes place post-Lakebed Temple), he should abandon Zant completely. Perhaps the Usurper King could reference that as he awakens Stallord, muttering his concerns about why his "god" has stopped speaking to him.

Zant is a pawn, even though he doesn't realize it. Ganondorf should use him like one."
In TP, Ganon's motives aren't really the problem with him. I'd assume that his motives were to take everything over again once he was done beating the tar out of Link, as per usual.

The problem is that all the build up in Ocarina of Time for Ganondorf never happened in the Child Timeline. Link was taken back to, presumably, the moment directly before he met Princess Zelda (if this wasn't the case, why would Zelda be in the castle still?) Meaning that Twilight Princess could have done a LOT more with Ganondorf. Ganondorf could have gone through character development involving a young, rough, rugged Ganondorf that has literally none of the experience he had during OoT when he took over Hyrule Castle. Instead, Ganondorf was just literally there because he's Ganondorf. Let's think; in Ocarina of Time, Ganondorf ruled Hyrule with an iron fist, and the citizens of Hyrule knew this, right? They knew that Ganondorf was extremely powerful and they'd be dead quickly if they even dared to raise a finger against him. Yet, in Twilight Princess, he technically did rule Hyrule.. but nobody really knew. One of the things important about Ganondorf is that when he finally gets what he wants, he seems to make a big deal about it, like him trying to exterminate the gorons to make a point and how he captured young girls all across the Great Sea in his attempt to gain the Triforce. Ganondorf did it for ****s and giggles. He got the Triforce due to divine prank (and mostly likely a connection in between the three timelines, considering Ganondorf had the Triforce of Power in one timeline and then the entire Triforce of Power in the other.) This could have led to a game where Ganondorf was spearheading a revolt on Hyrule-- possibly even confronting Link instead of having Zant do it after the completion of Lakebed Temple.

 

[DeactivatedUser2]

TP is a sequel to OOT. You know what Ganondord wanted from that game, but due to Links actions he was actually stopped from obtaining Hyrule and executed. In TP we see the effect his escape from the Twilight had on hyrule with the byproduct being Zant. You also defeat Ganondorf before he can actually finish what he began so we do not really see it in action.

That said, I would have preferred to see Ganondorf begin to take the land over and begin the apocalypse which would have happened during Links 7 year sleep in OOT.

Sure, we know it was a sequel, and we know Ganondorf wanted to obtain the Triforce and Hyrule. But you can't just build off a predecessor to explain everything in the storyline for you. Wind Waker did this to a slight degree, but it played it off excellently. The Hero of Time defeated Ganondorf, and therefore the King of Red Lions and the other deities of Hyrule were looking for the Hero of Time, but he never appeared. That's when Daphnes took it into his own hands and found somebody who had no relation to the Hero of Time. This is what separates it from Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess; you had to PROVE that you were worthy of being the hero, it didn't build off of Ocarina of Time and starred Link fulfilling that Link's legacy like Link did in Twilight Princess. Plus, what does it being a sequel have to do anything? Ganondorf went far more in depth with explaining what he wanted in his conquest in claiming Hyrule. It didn't just build off of Ocarina of Time, it built an entire layer AROUND Ocarina of Time. Twilight Princess did none of this.

 

[Dio]

I respectfully disagree with the notion that bomb > elemental arrows.

Yes, partners leaving are always bittersweet, but the only one that has literally died (unless you count Fi's "eternal sleep") would be Daphnes, left below with Ganondorf and the Kingdom of Hyrule. This could even be considered symbolic, because, in his desperation to save Hyrule, he saw himself as being no better than Ganondorf. It's only fitting that both of them would meet their demise in the kingdom they sought after. It really broke the traditions of Zelda that not every game would have an ending where everybody would come out unscathed (I guess LA technically did that first? However we have no idea if they were even hurt when the dream ended) and the protagonists had to come to a sort of compromise instead of having everything go back to normal; they needed to find a new Hyrule to inhabit.

Ganondorf has always been a horrible man, but I think in Wind Waker he has more realistic and more justified reasons. Sure, the Gerudo don't follow him out of the desert, but is it possibly because Ganondorf was the only one that had a problem with living in the desert? It's entirely possible the Gerudo just stayed in the desert out of tradition, and Ganondorf ruled Hyrule while passing orders to Nabooru to give to the Gerudo. About Ganondorf killing women and children; he was literally a warlord in Ocarina of Time. He needed to get the fact that he had power (and lots of it) across somehow. This is why he tried to murder the entirety of the Gorons by feeding them to Volvagia as a sign of what would happen if anybody in Hyrule disobeyed him. Nabooru acknowledges that what he did was evil because it was evil, but he did it to raise him to a better place and to possibly raise his people to a better place, but, like I mentioned, it seemed they never wanted to leave, either out of tradition or just because they enjoyed where they stayed. This can be shown in FSA, where, even though the Gerudo are a peaceful race and could possibly return to Hyrule, they still remain in the desert.

He didnt steal from children to build reputation. He did it because he enjoyed it.

And if his people were satisfied he wasnt doing it to help them, it was because HE disliked the desert. He had no noble intentions either way.

 

[DeactivatedUser2]

View attachment 37725

He didnt steal from children to build reputation. He did it because he enjoyed it.

And if his people were satisfied he wasnt doing it to help them, it was because HE disliked the desert. He had no noble intentions either way.

Notice how the image is of Ganon's appearance in the Downfall Timeline. It may carry the name Ganondorf on the page, but "evil to the tip of his snout" presumes that it is his otherwise beastly form, who is literally a mindless beast from the Oracles onward who takes pride and enjoys in ruining and destroying Hyrule in any way he can. It's all he knows after the resurrection when sour. Hell, even in aLttP, his time in the Sacred Realm and him warping it into the Dark World probably influenced his enjoyment of war and ruin prior to the Oracles anyways.

 

[Dio]

Sure, we know it was a sequel, and we know Ganondorf wanted to obtain the Triforce and Hyrule. But you can't just build off a predecessor to explain everything in the storyline for you. Wind Waker did this to a slight degree, but it played it off excellently. The Hero of Time defeated Ganondorf, and therefore the King of Red Lions and the other deities of Hyrule were looking for the Hero of Time, but he never appeared. That's when Daphnes took it into his own hands and found somebody who had no relation to the Hero of Time. This is what separates it from Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess; you had to PROVE that you were worthy of being the hero, it didn't build off of Ocarina of Time and starred Link fulfilling that Link's legacy like Link did in Twilight Princess. Plus, what does it being a sequel have to do anything? Ganondorf went far more in depth with explaining what he wanted in his conquest in claiming Hyrule. It didn't just build off of Ocarina of Time, it built an entire layer AROUND Ocarina of Time. Twilight Princess did none of this.

Ganondorf is explained in TP as well. First by the sages, who say he was an evil magic wielder who sought to establish dominion over the sacred realm.

He then explains himself why he continues his conquest as he believes he has been chosen by the gods 'he who wields such a power would make a fitting king for this world'. He thinks the strongest should rule and that it is him.

He really doesnt have that much more to say in Wind Waker in terms of explaining motivation.

 

[Dio]

Notice how the image is of Ganon's appearance in the Downfall Timeline. It may carry the name Ganondorf on the page, but "evil to the tip of his snout" presumes that it is his otherwise beastly form, who is literally a mindless beast from the Oracles onward who takes pride and enjoys in ruining and destroying Hyrule in any way he can. It's all he knows after the resurrection when sour. Hell, even in aLttP, his time in the Sacred Realm and him warping it into the Dark World probably influenced his enjoyment of war and ruin prior to the Oracles anyways.

Thats ALTTP Ganon. Who is highly inteligent and not the mindless beast. In OOT Ganondorf becomes Ganon and then returns to his state in WW. It doesnt affect his intelligence or personality making the change.

What did is his defeat in ALTTP and botched revival in the oracle games.

 

[DeactivatedUser2]

Thats ALTTP Ganon. Who is highly inteligent and not the mindless beast. In OOT Ganondorf becomes Ganon and then returns to his state in WW. It doesnt affect his intelligence or personality making the change.

What did is his defeat in ALTTP and botched revival in the oracle games.

aLttP Ganon isn't "incredibly intelligent," he's comparable to Ocarina of Time Ganon. Ganon is slowly being corrupted by the Triforce and the fact that he isn't worthy to wield it the entirety of it, making him force it to stay with him, which is slowly taking away his mental capacity and making him slowly begin to focus more on pure, raw power.

By the by, I recall seeing that page before, but I don't remember exactly where. Do you mind reminding me?

Ganondorf is explained in TP as well. First by the sages, who say he was an evil magic wielder who sought to establish dominion over the sacred realm.

He then explains himself why he continues his conquest as he believes he has been chosen by the gods 'he who wields such a power would make a fitting king for this world'. He thinks the strongest should rule and that it is him.

He really doesnt have that much more to say in Wind Waker in terms of explaining motivation.

So he's literally just a watered down version of Ganondorf in Ocarina of Time.. We already knew he was an evil magic wielder who attempted to establish domain over the Sacred Realm, as this happened in Ocarina of Time. But the difference is that in Ocarina of Time, he USED his Triforce piece to establish his dominance over Hyrule instead of believing that because he had it he automatically deserves kingship. But why does he want king again? Oh yeah. ****s and giggles.

In Wind Waker, even if Ganondorf didn't want to gain kingship of Hyrule for the Gerudo, he clearly wanted to use it to step up a peg, and raise himself from the unforgiving heat of Gerudo desert.

 

[the8thark]

Twilight Princess of cause is the better game by far.
Wind Waker is a terribly flawed game.

 

[DeactivatedUser2]

Twilight Princess of cause is the better game by far.
Wind Waker is a terribly flawed game.

Care to explain?

 

[Dio]

aLttP Ganon isn't "incredibly intelligent," he's comparable to Ocarina of Time Ganon. Ganon is slowly being corrupted by the Triforce and the fact that he isn't worthy to wield it the entirety of it, making him force it to stay with him, which is slowly taking away his mental capacity and making him slowly begin to focus more on pure, raw power.

By the by, I recall seeing that page before, but I don't remember exactly where. Do you mind reminding me?

So he's literally just a watered down version of Ganondorf in Ocarina of Time.. We already knew he was an evil magic wielder who attempted to establish domain over the Sacred Realm, as this happened in Ocarina of Time. But the difference is that in Ocarina of Time, he USED his Triforce piece to establish his dominance over Hyrule instead of believing that because he had it he automatically deserves kingship. But why does he want king again? Oh yeah. ****s and giggles.

In Wind Waker, even if Ganondorf didn't want to gain kingship of Hyrule for the Gerudo, he clearly wanted to use it to step up a peg, and raise himself from the unforgiving heat of Gerudo desert.

Ocarina of Time Ganondorf is incredibly inteligent. He masterminded the events in the entire first half of the game. ALTTP Ganon is no different. He disguses himself as Aghanim and again manipulates events in Hyrule.