Why Are Koume and Kotake Ganondorf's Surrogate Parents?/Their Influence On Ganondorf

[A Link In Time]

I thought we would have some fun with this thread regarding a topic which isn't thoroughly discussed in the Hyrule Historia? Of all possible people, why are two four hundred year old witches, the ones to raise Ganondorf? This also brings to mind the question of where the evil from Ganondorf truly stems from. While his possession of the Triforce of Power intertwines his fate with that of the other bearers-Link and Zelda-do Koume and Kotake figure more pertinently into the equation than we are initially led to believe?

Given the situation wherein only one male is born to the Gerudo tribe every century, it's only natural the race would assign the most capable females the task of rearing this boy. The Twinrova sisters would appear a logical choice because of their age, estimated around 400 years. That said, could the two have barged in and taken control of the situation, using Ganondorf as a vessel through which to advance their own selfish ends? As we later see in the Oracle games, the hag duo is subservient to the demon Ganon, not the Gerudo Ganondorf. Given the adaptability of the desert people to their climate, the sisters would naturally have chosen a rugged and endurable body to hold the essence of their bestial master.

It should also be noted that following the alleged perishing of the ungodly duo in the Spirit Temple, the carpenters remark that the Gerudo are "not sccary anymore". This further reinforces the notion that the witches exercise their autonomy in making an entire village of people subservient to an ancient evil. Controlling the most powerful member of the tribe wasn't enough; in order to tear Hyrule apart from the inside out an entire region of the land needed to be in shambles and opposed to the others.

What are your thoughts on Twinrova's intentions throughout the series? While they appear sparingly-solely in the two N64 games and the linked Oracles-the brethren command an almost unparalleled degree of influence throughout the franchise. Do the two possibly connect to the Triforce of Power and its influence on Ganondorf and his quest to usurp the throne of Hyule?

 

[bspurka]

Well in my opinion, We do know that a gerudo male is born ever hundred years correct? Maybe they are just the care takers of the males who come out of the desert. or even more so the reason they have stayed alive for so long is that they get the males to do their evil doings for them so they can find a way to live forever. If they can live forever so can Ganondorf.

 

[felipe970421]

Well in my opinion, We do know that a gerudo male is born ever hundred years correct? Maybe they are just the care takers of the males who come out of the desert. or even more so the reason they have stayed alive for so long is that they get the males to do their evil doings for them so they can find a way to live forever. If they can live forever so can Ganondorf.

It's official

Ir seems after all I'm not alone on this, I always thought the Twinrova sisters were far more evil than Ganon, I mean, taking members of their own race to use as brainwashed slaves is just plain evil, and what were they doing at the colossus? A sacred place of worship to the Gerudo, they had some dirty business in there (I even have a fanfic were they were planing to awaken the goddess of sand to eradicate Hyrule, wait for the release!), The witches are clearly old, even by Gerudo standards, and they posses rather potent magic, so they have a do pull many strings here and there

The Gerudo don't seem to even like them, Nabooru's second in command is pretty quick to disobey their orders and grant Link a membership, not to mention Nabooru herself, so they are problably more of the evil dictator type

I agree completely with the theory

 

[Dragoncat]

Where does it say they raised him anyway? I didnt see anything about it in OoT...

I think that if one of them isnt his biological mother(nothing against that is said anywhere), then they killed his mother/parents shortly after he was born, so they could use him to rule the gerudos with an iron fist. We don't know who Ganondorf's father is. I'm willing to bet he was the last gerudo king, but I guess it's equally likely that G dorf was sired by one of the gerudos' hylian studs. Either way, the boy grew up with the same hatred in his heart as the witches that raised him. It would work well if the witches killed his parents, they would tell him that the hylian royals did it to make him hate hylians. This would also help explain why the rest of the gerudos seem to be scared to death of Twinrova. They know what the witches are capable of. They're not going to try to take the prince away from them, they're afraid of being turned into iron knuckles. Only Nabooru decides enough is enough. Luckily for her, Link was there to save her...

 

[bspurka]

Where does it say they raised him anyway? I didnt see anything about it in OoT...

I think that if one of them isnt his biological mother(nothing against that is said anywhere), then they killed his mother/parents shortly after he was born, so they could use him to rule the gerudos with an iron fist. We don't know who Ganondorf's father is. I'm willing to bet he was the last gerudo king, but I guess it's equally likely that G dorf was sired by one of the gerudos' hylian studs. Either way, the boy grew up with the same hatred in his heart as the witches that raised him. It would work well if the witches killed his parents, they would tell him that the hylian royals did it to make him hate hylians. This would also help explain why the rest of the gerudos seem to be scared to death of Twinrova. They know what the witches are capable of. They're not going to try to take the prince away from them, they're afraid of being turned into iron knuckles. Only Nabooru decides enough is enough. Luckily for her, Link was there to save her...

"Ganondorf was raised by the twin witches, Twinrova (Kotake and Koume). Twinrova revere Ganondorf as the Demon King, but, at 400 years old, these two could also be considered the covert leaders of the Gerudo." VIA Hyrule Historia. ( GlitterBerri's Game Translations » Pg. 90 The Deciding Battle VS Ganondorf )

"The foster mothers of Ganon once known as the thief Ganondorf. Ganondorf became Demon King Ganon and Twinrova are now trying to revive him." ( http://www.glitterberri.com/hyrule-historia/page-98/ )

 

[Dragoncat]

Thanks Purka. I didnt know whether it said in any game or not.

 

[felipe970421]

Thanks Purka. I didnt know whether it said in any game or not.

Also I think Navi says it

 

[HyruleHistory10]

So after reading that Hyrule Historia excerpt can we sumise that there has to be a group of three (like the holy triforce) to be a trio of villians? so you have the two witches one representing malice and the other hatred but without a POWER force they could not put forth their dominion over the world like the triforce which will be split if one does not have all three parts represented in themselves?

so that could also explain that when demise curses link and his ancesters to battle demises hatred for eternity that his soul may have separated like thta triforce and has been waiting for fullfillment. so Kotake and Koume had to wait for the third piece of their puzzle to arrive so they forced themselves to watch over the male gerudos so that they could watch the manifestation of the power that they were missing?

 

[bspurka]

So after reading that Hyrule Historia excerpt can we sumise that there has to be a group of three (like the holy triforce) to be a trio of villians? so you have the two witches one representing malice and the other hatred but without a POWER force they could not put forth their dominion over the world like the triforce which will be split if one does not have all three parts represented in themselves?

so that could also explain that when demise curses link and his ancesters to battle demises hatred for eternity that his soul may have separated like thta triforce and has been waiting for fullfillment. so Kotake and Koume had to wait for the third piece of their puzzle to arrive so they forced themselves to watch over the male gerudos so that they could watch the manifestation of the power that they were missing?

I just think that K&K just have to watch over the newest male, but they do use him idk if it is the trio that you may be thinking of but they are definitely working together no doubt about it.

 

[LinksMother]

My daughter's and mine own theory is that Impa is Ganon's biological mother (whether by consort of choice with one of the rare Gerudo males, or by unintentional means of becoming pregnant with him). She originally held the Triforce of Power with no word as to how she lost it, and we think once it was known she gave birth to a Gerudo either she gave him to be raised or the tribe requested him back to be raised. He doesn't seem so exactly like the other Gerudo's, and he does seem to have a bit of the same biology that the Sheikah have. Just a thought.

 

[Shadao]

I doubt that would be the case. The Triforce wasn't split at that time and therefore Impa could not have the Triforce of Power. As Ganondorf is a Gerudo because he has the same golden eyes, skin color, red hair, round ears, and pointed nose like the Gerudo Tribe whereas Impa has red eyes, white hair, pointed ears, and regular nose of the Shiekahs.

 

[Locke]

She originally held the Triforce of Power with no word as to how she lost it

I don't recall when she ever had the ToP... The rest of that is quite frankly fanfiction. Why Impa specifically?

 

[LinksMother]

I don't recall when she ever had the ToP... The rest of that is quite frankly fanfiction. Why Impa specifically?

Display some manners please, I am new to this site and this is a theory, as in unproven...if it were proven then it would not be theory would it? "Fanfiction"...as if...

Impa (as shown in the HH, pg 3, and it IS being referred to everywhere this past week concerning this) is an original guardian of the Triforce, that's "why Impa specifically". Being a mother with children who look nothing like myself in any way genetics are fair game to say he doesn't HAVE to look EXACTLY like her, OF COURSE. Please, again, do not be rude to anyone on here, much less new users, but I of course forgive you. I get this alot around this country.

By the way, is it not possible that the split of the Triforce was BECAUSE suddenly it was held by someone "not true of heart"? It splits when touched by someone "not true of heart", but if Impa, Zelda and Link are the original guardians when it had not split, and then suddenly, inexplicably it DID split, could it NOT be that a 4th person (as a gestating infant) was introduced into this group, as Impa, Zelda, and Link would never allow it to split themselves?

Impa knew when the Gerudos were coming, and took Zelda away to escape (in Ocarina), how else might she know this? Educated guess, I guess, or possibly another reason that relates to being personally involved (currently, previously, or unintentionally) with the Gerudo tribe.

 

[Wolf Sage]

Display some manners please, I am new to this site and this is a theory, as in unproven...if it were proven then it would not be theory would it? "Fanfiction"...as if...

I am assuming I am being subjected to the usual male "girls can't know anything about gaming" crap but you could not possibly know who I am or how involved I am so it would be silly to adhere to that route if I were you...

Impa (as shown in the HH, pg 3, and it IS being referred to everywhere this past week concerning this) is an original guardian of the Triforce, that's "why Impa specifically". Being a mother with children who look nothing like myself in any way genetics are fair game to say he doesn't HAVE to look EXACTLY like her, OF COURSE. Please, again, DO NOT BE RUDE TO ANYONE ON HERE, much less new users, but I of course forgive you. I get this alot around this country.

By the way, is it not possible that the split of the Triforce was BECAUSE suddenly it was held by someone "not true of heart"? It splits when touched by someone "not true of heart", but if Impa, Zelda and Link are the original guardians when it had not split, and then suddenly, inexplicably it DID split, could it NOT be that a 4th person (as a gestating infant) was introduced into this group, as Impa, Zelda, and Link would never allow it to split themselves?

Impa knew when the Gerudos were coming, and took Zelda away to escape (in Ocarina), how else might she know this? Educated guess, I guess, or possibly another reason that relates to being personally involved (currently, previously, or unintentionally) with the Gerudo tribe.

...

Actually - and I mean this in the nicest way imaginable - you seem to have misread something. It was stated that one of the incarnations of Impa [I forget which one], was originally going to bear the Triforce of Power. The text later points out that this idea was scrapped, and therefore didn't make it into the games. Again, not trying to be mean, but Zelda Theory has its own rules to adhere to, and things go a lot smoother when theorizing [or challenging a theory] if you're well-equipped with evidence and facts, not make believe stories...

---

As to the topic at hand...

I opine that Koume and Kotake assumed the roles of Ganondorf surrogate mothers for all your run-of-the-mill "storybook" reasons: Ganondorf was probably an orphan and/or abandoned. However, given the Gerudo tradition, the sole male - Ganondorf - is to be revered as ruler of the tribe. These factors alone suffice as legitimate reasons as to why "K&K" would take him in, right?

Well, I think the dominant factor lies in that K&K found great potential in Ganondorf, and decided to hone his abilities "for whatever reason." Even more "storybook-like", Ganondorf appears to have excelled at some point and surpassed his mothers in terms of dark magic. Keep in mind that all of this is hypothetical , of course...

Most of you guys have provided some awesome possibilities as well. Good theory, ALIT...

 

[Satsy]

LinksMother: you seem to have a misconception about how theory works. If a theory does not have ground to sustain it (in-game evidence, in this case) then it is simply headcanon, and not a solid theory. Locke would be right to call it fanfiction, and there's nothing wrong with that if you can pull it off. After all fanfiction allows you to stretch the limits beyond what game ties and developer interviews would give you, to tell a convincing tale regardless. If you want a game theory to be a game theory, however, it's best to find proof within the games that supports it. If this cannot be found, then the theory is not a theory, but fiction.

You also seem to have a misconception over what constitutes as being impolite, because Locke was not rude when he said what he did. It is not rude to point out impossibilities within one's building theory.

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Buut anyway.

Aside from the scrapped idea that Impa was originally going to have a piece of the Triforce, what reasons do you have to believe that she is Ganondorf's mother? Would this not suggest Ganondorf is a Shiekah, and not a Gerudo? When he is stated in more than enough games (OoT, FSA, and I can't remember if it came up in TP) that he is a Gerudo, and as a thief from the desert in even earlier games, wouldn't that go against the idea of his being a member of the Shiekah, the people who are behind the Hylian Royal Family?