What is Ghirahim?

[Rytex]

Recently, we got a very brief look into Ghirahim at E3, Comic-Con, and GDC. Now here's my question. What is he? Before the boss fight with him, he says he's a demon, so we get that, and he says he rules over the land under Skyloft. So he's a Demon King (Ganondorf reference?). But that's not what I'm delving in to. Or maybe it is, in a way. See, as this game takes place before OoT, I'm going to assume that, since there exists no Triforce on the Hyrulean Crest (as seen in that same run-up to the boss fight on the door he faces before confronting you), there exists no Triforce period. Here's some reasoning behind that bit of assumption.

1. Ghirahim mentions a servant of the goddess. Not goddessES. Meaning, there's only ONE. Only ONE goddess. And she's not omnipotent either, as Ghirahim still exists below Skyloft and rules over the lower world.
2. In OoT, the goddesses came down and restored order to chaotic Hyrule. Now, we know that Hyrule is a barbaric place at the time of SS. But it is clearly seen that the goddesses created it. So, I think that at the end of the game, the land may very well be destroyed, causing the goddesses to recreate it, creating the Triforce.

The fact that there exists no Triforce is of immense significance. There is no divine power powerful enough to remake the land. Now, this goddess could very well be Phi, as he/she is the essence of the Skyward Sword, found in Skyloft. So, if Phi is this first goddess, and Ghirahim is a demon, are they counterparts?

I believe so. For my reasoning behind this, we look back to Ocarina of Time AND Majora's Mask.

Hyrule is a land where everyone worships the goddesses and the Triforce. It is fertile, has a very strong economy, and a very strong government (granted Ganondorf tore it to pieces). The ultimate sword, which can destroy evil, is the Master Sword, as forged in Skyward Sword. Now let's look to Termina. Termina is the polar opposite of Hyrule. Everything Hyrule is, Termina is not. It doesn't have very fertile areas, as it has a desolate wasteland, an overly-wet area of land, a snowy mountain, and a murky ocean. Granted, Skull Kid was behind a lot of it. It has the same economy (but this is to keep standard with the Zelda Universe, so I won't really talk much of it). However, it has a very weak government, as it only consists of a Mayor, as opposed to the entire Royal Family of Hyrule. Also, the cultures are polar opposites. The Ikanians blasphemed the Triforce and goddesses the Hyruleans worshiped (statues are seen licking the Triforce in the Stone Tower).

So, now that it has been established that Termina and Hyrule are total opposites, I think it extends to their Blades of Legend as well. The Master Sword, as I mentioned earlier, is the ultimate sword, which can destroy evil, and is in Hyrule. The Gilded Sword is simply a strong blade, but it isn't able to destroy evil. Not that it is evil. However, maybe it is. Notice the diamond pattern on the blade. Now compare it to Ghirahim's little red scarf/cloak-thing (now look back at the sword, now back to Ghirahim. sadly, it isn't Gira-- Sorry. I got a little carried away there). The diamond pattern looks much the same. We were speculating on Adele/Zordiana (Phi) possibly being the Master Sword, as they both look similar back in '09 and '10. This to me doesn't seem too far-fetched because of that.

What am I saying? Ghirahim is the demon that resides in the Gilded Sword, just as Phi is the goddess that resides in the Skyward/Master Sword.

Thoughts? Concerns? Copyright complaints that I used "The Man Your Man Could Smell Like" in this theory? Responses?

 

[Caelus]

It's spelled Ghirahim. Not reading until you correct it.

On a serious note, I don't think this is the case. A sword wielding a sword... hah.

 

[Ventus]

Firstly, the goddesses would still be omnipotent, just lenient in control over the lands and beliefs of the peoples. I don't believe that Ghirahim would be the spirit of the Gilded Sword, but maybe Fierce Deity's sword if Nintendo decides to give that mask and the force behind it some backstory.

 

[Katelynn]

It's Demon LORD Ghirahim. And no, he's not connected to the Gilded Sword. . . Try searching through the forums before making a thread. (or read the front page news)

 

[Caelus]

The fact that there exists no Triforce is of immense significance.

Actually Aonuma stated the TF is in the game but with a different meaning/purpose.

 

[Cuju]

In Ocarina of Time, the three godesses made the earth, the animals, and law and order. In Skyward Sword's soon to be Hyrule (Bill Trinen hinted that you'd visit familiar places, but they might not be Hyrule, wich suggests that the surfacce, as Ghirahim calls it, isn't actually called Hyrule yet) there is earth (physical places) and animals and living creatures.

The godess in Skyloft could very well be any of the three godesses, They could worship Din who created physical places.

They could worship Nayru, because they obviously have laws and orderly behavior in SKyloft.

They could aslo worship Farore, because she gave life to the world.

 

[Wolf Sage]

People have been speculating on this for quite some time; looking at such things as the diamond-jewel that both Phi and Lord Ghirahim share and the differences between them (red and blue). But I don't think Lord Ghirahim is a "sword spirit" (fan name) as Phi is popularly believed to be. With this, died the idea of LG being the Gilded Sword. Though, I was never a major proponent of that theory to begin with. The most popular and more probable theory is that Lord Ghirahim might belong to the Dark Interlopers (Dark Tribe?) that attempted to raid the Sacred Realm in the Twili back-story featured in Twilight Princess.

Lastly, there has been no evidence presented or confirmation that Termina will make an appearance in Skyward Sword, or even be referenced to any degree. Sure, there were those equivocal words...

-you will visit familiar places in Skyward Sword, but they may or may not be part of Hyrule...

...but this could mean a number of different things.

 

[Hyrulian]

I agree that some of this could happen, but the gilded sword was created in the game. Unless of course its not the sword itself that matters, but the objects its created by. What is the gold dust? it can't just be gold, otherwise it wouldn't do much with the sword. Maybe what makes that sword so powerful is him, maybe he gets turned into dust at the end of the game... But of course, thats me throwing things WAY out there again. XD

But the triforce not being created until the end of the game sounds like it could happen, since it DOES take on a totally different meaning. But I think it may have a bigger role in the game then just that, knowing that a lot of games lately haven't had much of the triforce in it, it might even be refreshing to see it.

I think what would be interesting is to see how the triforce is made different, I wonder how they will incorporate LORD Ghirahim with the triforce.
One more thing: a Demon isn't the opposite of a god (or goddess), Demons are evil followers of some sort. If his name is demon lord Ghirahim, then maybe the demons fallow him, and he is like the (or a) devil.

 

[JuicieJ]

Recently, we got a very brief look into Girahim at E3, Comic-Con, and GDC. Now here's my question. What is he? Before the boss fight with him, he says he's a demon, so we get that, and he says he rules over the land under Skyloft. So he's a Demon King (Ganondorf reference?). But that's not what I'm delving in to. Or maybe it is, in a way. See, as this game takes place before OoT, I'm going to assume that, since there exists no Triforce on the Hyrulean Crest (as seen in that same run-up to the boss fight on the door he faces before confronting you), there exists no Triforce period. Here's some reasoning behind that bit of assumption.

First off, his title is Demon Lord, not Demon King. Second, it's quite natural that there is no Triforce on the Royal Crest, as the Royal Family hasn't been established yet. In this game, the Crest is just Zelda's bird symbol, as every bird rider has his or her own unique bird symbol. (I'm assuming the red bird symbol on the Hylian Shield is Link's.)

1. Girahim mentions a servant of the goddess. Not goddessES. Meaning, there's only ONE. Only ONE goddess. And she's not omnipotent either, as Girahim still exists below Skyloft and rules over the lower world.

The goddess he mentioned is the goddess that watches over Skyloft and is just a simple deity. There are more deities than the three Golden Goddesses in the series.

2. In OoT, the goddesses came down and restored order to chaotic Hyrule. Now, we know that Hyrule is a barbaric place at the time of SS. But it is clearly seen that the goddesses created it. So, I think that at the end of the game, the land may very well be destroyed, causing the goddesses to recreate it, creating the Triforce.

The "chaos that was Hyrule" simply refers to it being nothingness. When the goddesses descended, they created the world and life within it. There was no land until they created it. This is a common misconception on many fans' parts (that the "chaos that was Hyrule" is what's happening in Skyward Sword).

The fact that there exists no Triforce is of immense significance. There is no divine power powerful enough to remake the land.

The Triforce was created by the goddesses after they created the world. It already exists and is stated to take part in the game, although in a different way than before.

Now, this goddess could very well be Phi, as he/she is the essence of the Skyward Sword, found in Skyloft. So, if Phi is this first goddess, and Girahim is a demon, are they counterparts?

That theory is plausible, but the statue of the goddess in Skyloft looks nothing like Phi at all. (And Ghirahim isn't necessarily a demon. Just because the word "demon" is in your title doesn't make you one.)

What am I saying? Girahim is the demon that resides in the Gilded Sword, just as Phi is the goddess that resides in the Skyward/Master Sword.

I'm 100% sure that Ghirahim has nothing to do with the Guilded Sword or any sword. The cloak he has isn't nearly enough evidence to back the theory up and is easily explained by the repetitive diamond theme we've seen in the game. Especially with Ghirahim. I mean, look at him. He's covered in diamonds. Even the clothing under his cloak. Plus, the Guilded Sword is simply an optional upgrade to the Kokiri Sword in Majora's Mask, which is after Ocarina of Time. It'd be pretty difficult to be part of a sword that doesn't exist yet. (I also don't think Phi has anything to do with a sword until she houses herself in the Skyward Sword, which my personal theory is her mixing with Link's starter sword to power it up and give it a new hilt. Either that, or she mixes with a sword design that all official Knights of Skyloft get.)

All that said, I am absolutely certain that Ghirahim is a "dark interloper." Reasons for it are in this excerpt from an old-ish post of mine.

We know that the “dark interlopers” were part of a war for the Sacred Realm. Some people would say, “Well, that’s the war in Ocarina of Time’s back-story. The Unifying War. I say otherwise. Yes, the Unifying War was over gaining access to the Sacred Realm and the power held within it, just like the war mentioned by Lanayru in Twilight Princess. However, the Temple of Time had already been constructed before the Unifying War. Proof? Well, there’s a little story in Ocarina of Time that tells of a boy who’s mother was mortally wounded. This boy’s mother took him to the Great Deku Tree Kokiri Forest out of desperation. We know this child to be the Link of Ocarina of Time. Unless that Link lived a veeeeeeery long time and stayed a baby during it, the Unifying War has to be right before the events of Ocarina of Time.

Now, more about the Temple of Time itself. Rauru said, “We ancient Sages built the Temple of Time…” Ancient Sages. That means that the Temple of Time was built in ancient times, long before Ocarina of Time. Plus, in the war mentioned in Twilight Princess, the Sacred Realm was open to where it could be accessed by anyone. The Temple of Time was built as a defense for the Sacred Realm with the Master Sword as the final barrier, as well as the key to opening the Sacred Realm itself. All that said, the Unifying War and the war in Twilight Princess’s back-story can’t be one-in-the-same. This leaves a perfect spot for the “dark interlopers” to come about in Skyward Sword, as it’s set before Ocarina of Time. And, with the “army of evil” mentioned and the fact that Skyloft is part of Hyrule, the war mentioned in Twilight Princess has a strong possibility of being in Skyward Sword’s back-story, if not still going on in-game. The “dark interlopers” being sealed at the end of the game would work perfectly, as well.

 

[Rytex]

Thanks for the feedback, and again, this is just my theory, and it may or may not turn out correct. We won't know until the game comes out. I did consider that it would be a long shot of a theory before I made it, but this is something I'm just throwing out there. As a timeline theorist, I have gained a little ability to take something so minute or insignificant (such as Link getting a hat in MC) and turning it into one giant theory (making MC the first game on my timeline, but that's not the only reason I have for it being there. Anyway, off topic.)

Actually Aonuma stated the TF is in the game but with a different meaning/purpose.

That could mean a lot of things. The Triforce could be seen gaining its significance (or even being created for all we know). But I see where you're coming from. Anyway, thanks for providing feedback on my long shot of a theory.

 

[Cuju]

...but this could mean a number of different things.

But what I said is probably the most likely case. By all means, tell us what you think this means

 

[Wolf Sage]

But what I said is probably the most likely case. By all means, tell us what you think this means

Why sure, Mr. Cuju. ^^ Okay:

-you will visit familiar places in Skyward Sword, but they may or may not be part of Hyrule...

In my opinion, I think this could mean that the "familiar places" in question may be found in the "world below." The world below is reported to not be Hyrule, yet, as the land is not yet established, remember? Therefore, these "familiar places" would technically not be part of Hyrule in a sense. Also I believe there exists the off-chance that some of the places we are familiar with - from the Hyrule of Ocarina of Time, for instance - may be found in the sky in Skyward Sword. :yes:

 

[Locke]

While I agree with your conclusion about Lord Ghirahim, I also agree with most of what JuicieJ said about the goddesses and the Triforce. Hyrule was chaos before the godesses created matter, order, and life. This means that the chaos likely refers to space, disorder, and death, and it follows that this disorder is metaphysical chaos, not social chaos.

However, what you say brings up an interesting pattern though. OoT introduced a new timeline for new games (MM) to be added to (although it's possible that this wasn't utilized until WW), MM introduced a parallel dimension for new games to take place in (though none have yet), OoX introduced two new lands, the FSS may or may not have introduced a separate continuity, ST introduced a new Hyrule geographically separated from the old one... Zelda developers (specifically Aonuma I think) have been trying to create as many possibilities for new games as they can so that they don't box themselves in creatively. It's possible that if we are to reinterpret the classic creation story, SS could turn it into a recreation story. In that sense, SS could be adding an entire new universe that existed before the current one, which they could extend back as far as they want in order to avoid backstories of current games.

There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened.

In this case, Aonuma hesitates to say that SS is the first game because it's really the last game in this new universe, with the prospect of limitless possibilities for prequels. But for now, I prefer to keep the strict interpretation of creation and assume that Aonuma hopes to make more stories between that and SS in the future. (a universe reboot would make the timeline unnecessarily complex. occam's razor)

 

[Infernape]

the land may very well be destroyed, causing the goddesses to recreate it, creating the Triforce.

I don't think that it would be destroyed because that would ruin all the backstories of the game that we know so far, because, everyone would die! and there are already so many connecting aspect of the gamessuspicious:

 

[Cuju]

Why sure, Mr. Cuju. ^^ Okay:



In my opinion, I think this could mean that the "familiar places" in question may be found in the "world below." The world below is reported to not be Hyrule, yet, as the land is not yet established, remember? Therefore, these "familiar places" would technically not be part of Hyrule in a sense. Also I believe there exists the off-chance that some of the places we are familiar with - from the Hyrule of Ocarina of Time, for instance - may be found in the sky in Skyward Sword. :yes:

That's what I meant! o_0 What did you think I meant?!?