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Breath of the Wild Timeline: Where is the game going to go?

Aku

Joined
Apr 3, 2014
There's still the hope that they'll scrap the entire stupid timeline idea, and just go back to having each game be its own game. Or scrap everything else, and start a brand new timeline, with new history and new lore. Either would be welcome in my eyes.

A few of the Zelda games had a clear connection like WW and OOT but with most the connection seemed forced.

I would love for this new game to begin a new timeline. A fresh start for the series so they can build a more cohesive lore.

However there is no hope for this to happen. Aounuma had said he had a plan for this game and the other games he makes and that he had/has a plan for where they fit in to the timeline. This tells us it is going in the established mess rather than making a new timeline and for sure that this wont be a standalone game isolated from the rest of the series.
I don't like the timeline either, I think it's kind of boring as it tries to 'explain' too much, and I'd also say that it doesn't make sense. Ever notice how some of the games outline different origins for the world and it's peoples? Minish Cap has it's alternate origin, Twilight Princess has it's Hylians-possiblely-created-by -the-Oocca, and Skyward Sword is creation by Gods. If this is meant to be a timeline that is singular and then splits, it doesn't make sense to have these different and almost substantiated origins. They don't belong in the same timeline, they might not even belong in the same universe! It's alright not having stuff be in the same universe, because it means new games have more freedom to be widly unique.

Maybe in the future, with a completely different team working on it. I mean, if the games are still fun, it really doesn't make that much of a difference. However, the series as a whole could benefit from having a coherent story, whether that be a true, unified timeline that makes sense, or not having a timeline at all.
With this new guy that I think is replacing Aonuma, it still could happen. If it's the choice between a timeline and anything that keeps the games more enjoyable, guess what? Canon go boom. The HH becomes apocrypha and they come up with something else. It's done in rare cases if the creators feel dire need, like they no longer have room to expand the story and create. Doesn't matter at times what fans want, although nu-canon can be loved and accepted by fans in time, especially if it makes stuff feel fresh again.
 

Dio

~ It's me, Dio!~
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England
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I don't like the timeline either, I think it's kind of boring as it tries to 'explain' too much, and I'd also say that it doesn't make sense. Ever notice how some of the games outline different origins for the world and it's peoples? Minish Cap has it's alternate origin, Twilight Princess has it's Hylians-possiblely-created-by -the-Oocca, and Skyward Sword is creation by Gods. If this is meant to be a timeline that is singular and then splits, it doesn't make sense to have these different and almost substantiated origins. They don't belong in the same timeline, they might not even belong in the same universe! It's alright not having stuff be in the same universe, because it means new games have more freedom to be widly unique.

With this new guy that I think is replacing Aonuma, it still could happen. If it's the choice between a timeline and anything that keeps the games more enjoyable, guess what? Canon go boom. The HH becomes apocrypha and they come up with something else. It's done in rare cases if the creators feel dire need, like they no longer have room to expand the story and create. Doesn't matter at times what fans want, although nu-canon can be loved and accepted by fans in time, especially if it makes stuff feel fresh again.


Its poor planning that has caused these different origin stories. If they had actually fleshed out a lore of what actually happpened and made games incorporating aspects of it, a lot more sense would be made of game events. However a lot of the games seem to have been made without the lore in mind and things thrown in without considering the contradiction it causes.
 

Aku

Joined
Apr 3, 2014
Its poor planning that has caused these different origin stories. If they had actually fleshed out a lore of what actually happpened and made games incorporating aspects of it, a lot more sense would be made of game events. However a lot of the games seem to have been made without the lore in mind and things thrown in without considering the contradiction it causes.
I don't think they had lore in mind at the beginning, they kind of made stuff up and changed stuff as they went along. 'Ganondorf' was originaly the name of the pig monster (before they decided to shorten it to) Ganon in initial concept, and then they gave that name to the man. I don't think the Gerudo man bit was thought of until Ocarina.

The Oocca didn't created the Hylians, that was an mistranslation on Nintendo of America's part. Here's the link to the source. http://zeldawiki.org/Oocca Just like at "Trivia"
Ah gotcha. Always good to learn something that makes a difference, although it has the Oocca as closer to the Gods then even the Hylians, and the Oocca seem only mentioned in TP and that archery simulator.
 
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Dio

~ It's me, Dio!~
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England
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I don't think they had lore in mind at the beginning, they kind of made stuff up and changed stuff as they went along. 'Ganondorf' was originaly the name of the pig monster (before they decided to shorten it to) Ganon in initial concept, and then they gave that name to the man. I don't think the Gerudo man bit was thought of until Ocarina.

Ah gotcha. Always good to learn something that makes a difference, although it has the Oocca as closer to the Gods then even the Hylians, and the Oocca seem only mentioned in TP and that archery simulator.

Ganondorf the man was thought of around the time of A Link to the Past. He was actually in the comic as an arabian looking guy with a grey beard. This was before he had his OOT Look.
ALttPComic-Ganondorf-620x.jpg
 

CrimsonCavalier

Fuzzy Pickles
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I don't think they had lore in mind at the beginning, they kind of made stuff up and changed stuff as they went along.

I don't think it's an opinion. They didn't have lore in mind in the beginning. Some games related to others in the series, but for the most part the games were all meant to be stand-alone entries. Yes, The Legend of Zelda had a direct sequel in Adventure of Link, and of course Ocarina of Time—Marjora's Mask, but A Link to the Past was not connected to the other games, and Link's Awakening had some hints that it followed one of the other Zelda games, but doesn't say (or specify) which.

If anything, there are just different sets of games. Even before the Historia was published, there were arguments that there were a few "series":

The Legend of Zelda —— Adventure of Link
__________________________________\___ Link's Awakening (maybe?)
___________________A Link to the Past /

Ocarina of Time —— Marjora's Mask —— The Wind Waker
____________
\Oracle games?
So even though there are arguments to be made that some games do follow a series, the series themselves don't follow a timeline. Any attempt to do so has been a fabrication for the sake of appeasing fans. The problem is, it was a lot more fun to speculate and hypothesize, and theorize about some connection, than for them to give us some poorly thought out, half-arsed attempt at a unified timeline, which can only be truly explained by making it "branch" in three different paths, none of which really make sense.

With this new guy that I think is replacing Aonuma, it still could happen. If it's the choice between a timeline and anything that keeps the games more enjoyable, guess what? Canon go boom. The HH becomes apocrypha and they come up with something else. It's done in rare cases if the creators feel dire need, like they no longer have room to expand the story and create. Doesn't matter at times what fans want, although nu-canon can be loved and accepted by fans in time, especially if it makes stuff feel fresh again.

I think it's high time it happens. Like I said before, the games aren't less fun because of the timeline. It really doesn't make that huge of a difference, and it really doesn't affect gameplay. However, a real story would really add to the enjoyment factor.
 
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
I don't think it's an opinion. They didn't have lore in mind in the beginning. Some games related to others in the series, but for the most part the games were all meant to be stand-alone entries. Yes, The Legend of Zelda had a direct sequel in Adventure of Link, and of course Ocarina of Time—Marjora's Mask, but A Link to the Past was not connected to the other games, and Link's Awakening had some hints that it followed one of the other Zelda games, but doesn't say (or specify) which.

If anything, there are just different sets of games. Even before the Historia was published, there were arguments that there were a few "series":

The Legend of Zelda —— Adventure of Link
__________________________________\___ Link's Awakening (maybe?)
___________________A Link to the Past /

Ocarina of Time —— Marjora's Mask —— The Wind Waker
____________
\Oracle games?
So even though there are arguments to be made that some games do follow a series, the series themselves don't follow a timeline. Any attempt to do so has been a fabrication for the sake of appeasing fans. The problem is, it was a lot more fun to speculate and hypothesize, and theorize about some connection, than for them to give us some poorly thought out, half-arsed attempt at a unified timeline, which can only be truly explained by making it "branch" in three different paths, none of which really make sense.
The timeline was definitely in mind (for at least a while) when making the games. AoL was designed as a sequel to LoZ, aLttP was designed as a prequel to explain the lore of LoZ, and OoT was designed to recreate the Imprisoning War that took place. However, this went south when the game didn't end at all like the Imprisoning War; Ganondorf still only had the Triforce of Power, with the other two having their respective Triforce pieces. This was the first major problem in the Zelda continuity.


16px-Quote1.png
Ocarina of Time is the first story, then the original Legend of Zelda, then Zelda II: The Adventure of Link, and finally A Link to the Past. It's not very clear where Link's Awakening fits in—it could be anytime after Ocarina of Time.[1]
16px-Quote2.png

— Shigeru Miyamoto


This time, the story really wasn't an original. We were dealing with the "The Imprisoning War of the Seven Sages" from the SNES edition Zelda. To give that game a little "secret" recognition, I thought that keeping the "pigness" in Ganon would be the correct course. So we made him a beast "with the feeling of a pig."

The dual timeline idea was even sparked back during the release of Wind Waker by Aonuma.

Q: Where does The Wind Waker fit into the overall Zelda series timeline?
Aonuma: You can think of this game as taking place over a hundred years after Ocarina of Time. You can tell this from the opening story, and there are references to things from Ocarina located throughout the game as well.
Miyamoto: Well, wait, which point does the hundred years start from?
Aonuma: From the end.
Miyamoto: No, I mean, as a child or as a...
Aonuma: Oh, right, let me elaborate on that. Ocarina of Time basically has two endings of sorts; one has Link as a child and the other has him as an adult. This game, The Wind Waker, takes place a hundred years after the adult Link defeats Ganon at the end of Ocarina.


 

Triforce King

Pathfinder for life
Joined
Jul 10, 2011
Ah gotcha. Always good to learn something that makes a difference, although it has the Oocca as closer to the Gods then even the Hylians, and the Oocca seem only mentioned in TP and that archery simulator.
Well it has been speculated that the Oocca is the evolved form of the Loftwings. Also I blame the Nintendo of America localization team for butchering the lore of twilight princess.
 

Aku

Joined
Apr 3, 2014
The timeline was definitely in mind (for at least a while) when making the games. AoL was designed as a sequel to LoZ, aLttP was designed as a prequel to explain the lore of LoZ, and OoT was designed to recreate the Imprisoning War that took place. However, this went south when the game didn't end at all like the Imprisoning War; Ganondorf still only had the Triforce of Power, with the other two having their respective Triforce pieces. This was the first major problem in the Zelda continuity.


16px-Quote1.png
Ocarina of Time is the first story, then the original Legend of Zelda, then Zelda II: The Adventure of Link, and finally A Link to the Past. It's not very clear where Link's Awakening fits in—it could be anytime after Ocarina of Time.[1]
16px-Quote2.png

— Shigeru Miyamoto


This time, the story really wasn't an original. We were dealing with the "The Imprisoning War of the Seven Sages" from the SNES edition Zelda. To give that game a little "secret" recognition, I thought that keeping the "pigness" in Ganon would be the correct course. So we made him a beast "with the feeling of a pig."
Is this quote in reference to Ocarina? Ganondorf does't look very piglike, unless it's talking about Wind Waker, where he does have a shadow of something not quite human about him...

Well it has been speculated that the Oocca is the evolved form of the Loftwings. Also I blame the Nintendo of America localization team for butchering the lore of twilight princess.
The lore's all over the place. Even if the Oocca might be the evolved form of earlier loftwings, they should be mentioned more then they are if they are the closest to the Gods. Even the Sheiaka(sp?) get mentioned more.

What I'm wondering, if it isn't best to simply imagine the games as some sort of flawed 'adapted' version of a legend, where there might be some embellishment, where details might be fuzzy or 'jazzed up' (or even invented) like what you'd get in something that got retold many times over the years by people whose main 'entertainment' is storytelling. Otherwise you go crazy with trying to reconcile inconsistancies, in which the Historia might not help because even it too is flawed.

One 'embellishment' as an example: How do people know Ganondorf traveled with some band of magical thieves for the Triorce, and did what he did, claiming his prize with literal bloody hands after killing his followers? Where there witnesses left? He would have killed them had he knew someone was left alive or or even suspected someone was nearby. Leaving the bodies of his group there would also provide a big clue to where the entrance was, which is a bad idea if you are trying to keep the entrance (or general location) a secret. One can claim that there was some magical woo being applied that allowed someone to know, but that's a cop out, otherwise there would never be crime or secrets because someone could always apply magical woo and solve them.

(Another one is how this Triforce turned him into a pigman because of what was in his heart (greed for power), but yet he's supposed to be the incarnation of Demise's hatred, with possible demonic abilities of his own. Either he has inherent demonic powers, or the Trifoforce of Power is dangerous to possess because it can turn someone into a demonic entity.)

So for story's sake, someone 'added' detail because it sounds better then 'We just discovered this pig man with it, and hell if we know how he got it.' It fits how legends typically get more 'incredible' the further away one gets from the time in which they actually happen, because the legend is primarily meant to be entertainment or or to help illustrate a life lesson.

But I have been digressing hard here. :P

Returning back towards the discussion about BOTW's actual timeline placement, there is no Ganondorf in this game as he could appear, there is only the Calamity Ganon now, and this is referred to not as a 'he' but as an 'it.' This honestly makes it hard to even figure a timeline placement, becauseit's entirely possible this thing is a 'soft reboot' of Ganon. If every iteration of 'old Ganon(dorf) has been destroyed irretrievably and/or they have tapped out all the story ideas they could with this old character, this might be a way to keep a 'Ganon' around but not keep using one they have no more ideas for.
 
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Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Is this quote in reference to Ocarina? Ganondorf does't look very piglike, unless it's talking about Wind Waker, where he does have a shadow of something not quite human about him...
It was a discussion about Ocarina of Time, and it meant when Ganondorf became Ganon at the end of the game to continue the whole pig continuity that he had in all of the previous games.
 

CrimsonCavalier

Fuzzy Pickles
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XY
The timeline was definitely in mind (for at least a while) when making the games. AoL was designed as a sequel to LoZ, aLttP was designed as a prequel to explain the lore of LoZ, and OoT was designed to recreate the Imprisoning War that took place. However, this went south when the game didn't end at all like the Imprisoning War; Ganondorf still only had the Triforce of Power, with the other two having their respective Triforce pieces. This was the first major problem in the Zelda continuity.

I mean sure, maybe that's how they intended it in their heads. Maybe at one point the whole series was supposed to all take place on one world. But the end result does not follow that logic. It's as you said, the game didn't end like the Imprisoning War.

I've read the Hyrule Historia a few times now, and if you really sit down and look and read, it makes zero sense. Whatever noble intentions they started with went downhill when they made the games themselves.
 
Devils advocate here...

Maybe the game takes part at two different points in the timeline

For example: OoT-BotW-WW-BotW


BotW (I think) is the first Zelda to have such a significant time jump within its plot. Ocarina had 7 years (which we got back at the end) but BotW has Link waking up after 100years, so things must have kicked off 100 years prior to Link going to sleep, to have the need to wake the same one up, after maybe a new hero didnt turn up, and there be a game in the middle of his slumber.
 

hwrdjacob

The Nintendo Knight
I mean sure, maybe that's how they intended it in their heads. Maybe at one point the whole series was supposed to all take place on one world. But the end result does not follow that logic. It's as you said, the game didn't end like the Imprisoning War.

I've read the Hyrule Historia a few times now, and if you really sit down and look and read, it makes zero sense. Whatever noble intentions they started with went downhill when they made the games themselves.

I realized something that really, really bugs me, and seeing this post kind of set me off in a way; to the point I literally replaced multiple wires in a laptop this afternoon for the sole purpose of replying (my laptop has been broken for a while)

People who have worked on OoT said in interviews that for most if not all of OoT's development, consistency with ALttP was one of their top priorities, and OoT was supposed to be "a version of the events in the Imprisoning War"

When I saw that statement the wheels in my head began turning. At first, it started from "how did they not notice these inconsistencies" but then I realized something extremely important about OoT: https://youtu.be/2vOvHs_C5Aw?t=8m37s

If they had ever, at any point, intended ALttP to take place after Link seals Ganon in OoT, then why on god's green earth would they end with a "Set Right What Once Went Wrong" trope? Most importantly, that's how they end the entire credits sequence; they don't first show Link sealing the Master Sword then continue from there with the adult timeline celebration to imply a time loop, they end with Link going back and meeting Zelda the "first" time.
If Wind Waker was never made, would anyone think that's not what they were implying with the ending? Of course not, because they explicitly chose to end the credits sequence with the events being erased. Wind Waker, more than likely, was an afterthought saying "Hey, we can actually go off of OoT's bad future and make that it's own continuity", which seems to be supported by the fact WW's backstory has major parallels to the first 4 Zelda games which is something you'd see in a reboot or intentional alternate continuity (like Ultimate Marvel).

It would also help to explain why OoT feels so much more self contained compared to, say, TP, which rides on callbacks (like the Hero's Shade, MM Skull Kid, and all the Link X Malon implications) to OoT and MM for the greater scale of it's plot, as well as several call forwards to ALttP (Like the Master Sword of Light's appearance which is something i should elaborate on sometime). OoT doesn't really feature call forwards aside from the names of the Sages (which by the way I will get to in a moment), which is indicative they somewhat intended OoT's events to be their own continuity that is destroyed at the end of the game via cosmic retcon.

The fact OoT can be picked apart and things can be pointed directly towards to say OoT is a soft remake of ALttP also supports the notion OoT was merely a "version" of the Imprisoning War and never at any point intended to be the IW itself; at least the plot in the final product.

They have also said in the same interview they named the Sages to explain how the towns in AoL got their name.

"But Jacob", I hear you cry. "They wouldnt be relevant if OoT never happened and they weren't Sages so obviously OoT had to have happened!"
Let me start with a pair of questions. How do you explain Mido Town?
Second- what were the sages before they became sages? With the sole exception of Saria, extremely notable historical figures. Darunia was chief of the Goron Tribe, Ruto princess and presumably later queen of the Zoras, Nabooru the effective leader of the Gerudo (they point out multiple times the Gerudo have mostly no loyalty to Ganondorf, only Nabooru), Rauru was a sage long before OoT (And, TPHD implies, the guardian of the temple of time and the master sword). And Mido? well, Mido was the leader of the Kokiri. And it's implied he might have had a thing for Saria in the game's intro and the Forest Temple sequence. So, from this perspective, it's possible they DIDN'T name the Sages after the towns; rather, they named historical figures Link meets after the towns, making almost all of them coincidentally Sages in the bad future timeline that gets erased. It would explain why they named Mido after a town as well; he's the leader of the Kokiri, according to the intro sequence. Furthermore, Kasuto could be a historical figure from the NES backstory and not the NES games (perhaps the founder of the secret village?) Saria is named after a town possibly to imply Mido either got together with her, or she was given/had an extremely important status in the tribe (she's the only Kokiri with a green fairy out of all of them, after all).

So, OoT was perfectly consistent with the timeline at the time on the grounds it seems it was never intended to "happen" in the first place.

Continuing on from there, MM was a direct OoT sequel, OoX was a direct prequel to LA (as the ending heavily indicates), FS1 didn't really matter at the time, FSA was intended to take place between MM and ALttP, immediately after FS1 with the same Link (as the box and manual state), giving that game a solid placement in the timeline but also causing a plot hole- Ganondorf's unexplained death. TMC had another unexplained placement (although it's backstory can be interpreted to be after TP in the context of it fitting eerily well with ALttP), then TP came along and patched up the plot hole by killing Ganondorf at the end. SS is at the beginning of the timeline, showing the first Zelda and the founding of Hyrule as a kingdom.

To recap, the timeline had the perfectly, 100% consistent set up of SS>OoT>MM>TP>FS>FSA>ALttP>OoX>LA>LoZ>AoL, with TMC somewhere between SS and FS, until Hyrule Historia came along and shoehorned in the (entirely pointless) DT, which to this day Nintendo seems to ignore in the games themselves- which I will get especially into in another post, because this brings up an interesting implication when you account for all of Nintendo's statements about BotW concerning the timeline (the short of it, they might retcon the DT out entirely or just ignore it if everything they've said is true).
 
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Blue_Theodore

I'm Blue dabadee
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Honestly, I think the Timeline will finally join togheter, but with the small info we have on the new game, this is just an option from an INFINITE number of... Um.. Options... :|
 

VitaTempusN92

Hero of Time! The True Zelda Genius!
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A lot of people for some reason think that the sages from OoT are the only sages with those names or incarnations of them in Hyrule's lore and just because the names of the sages are the same as the towns from Zelda II, that Zelda II and OoT must be connected. Yet they forget how many Malons there are in the lore! There's at least three (if you don't OoX) or four (if you do count OoX) of them! And there's also multiple Fados as well! So who's to say there can't be multiple Darunias, Sarias, Rutos, Midos, Raurus and Naboorus. I mean the have been multiple Impas! Heck, not only that but there are multiple Impas who were sages! OoT Impa was a sage! ALBW Impa? A sage! You see my point here?

Just because the towns in Zelda II were named after the sages, or that the sages were named after the towns, it doesn't mean Zelda II is connected to OoT! Especially since there is evidence proving that the DT can't branch from OoT! And that the DT games can't set after MM or TP! The biggest evidence proving that the DT can't branch OoT is that the game has no bad ending or even any indication of one. The games in the DT can't exist in the timeline as MM cause Ganondorf would have no reason to go after the Triforce as he would seek the power of the Majora and he doesn't transform in his pig form timeline unless you consider TP as a part of that timeline. The DT games can't exist in the same timeline TP, mainly because of the different of Hylian Language and DT games featuring the same language from OoT, not TP. And TP can't come after MM in the same timeline for the same reasons as the DT games.

"But Vita, what about the Song Healing and the Skull Kid?" We don't know how long that song existed or how long that particular Skull Kid lived either. All we do know that both have obviously already been around for a very long time even by the time of OoT.

That's one of the reasons why my fan timeline is set the way it is now. And yes, I have BotW set before OoT for these reasons:

1) The Master Sword isn't in the Temple of Time. Instead you have a Goddess Statue (which looks too much like the one from SS for the game to be set too far from SS) and pews, like as if people actually went there to praise, pray, and worship Hylia. This wasn't in OoT or TP! And the Master Sword chamber from OoT and TP doesn't seem to be there suggesting that that foundation of the chamber hasn't even been built yet. And there's no altar that mentions the Ocarina of Time, the spiritual stones, or Hero of Time at all, suggesting that there is no Hero of Time, Ocarina of Time, or even any Spiritual Stones (at not ones that people know about) yet. So it's this was once a very early version of the OoT foundation of the Temple of Time from before it was made into the way it was in OoT. Thus, hinting that this a prequel to OoT and a sequel to SS.

2) Epona doesn't seem to exist yet! Epona as an established character and Link's trusty steed doesn't seem to be such thing yet in the time period this game sets in. I say this cause it seems like Link can just find any random horse and name that horse the first Epona. A statement from Miyamoto back in 2014's VGA further suggests that this is the origins of Epona. Suggesting that this comes before even that of the MC.

3) The presence of the Sheikah tribe! As we all may know, the Sheikah, at least as a culture, are usually noticeably extinct anytime, post OoT, or by the time of ALttP! So this game can't set anywhere after OoT or after ALttP!

4) Ganon doesn't seem to be recognized as ever being a person yet! There seems to be no mention of Ganon as ever a gerudo man so far in the game. The people only recognize Ganon as a calamity. A curse of greed and hatred. Boy, doesn't that sound familiar! SS's Demise quote and OoT's Shadow Temple scriptures anyone?

5) The mention of Hylia! Hylia plays a big part in this game, which suggests this game is definitely close to SS. And Nintendo's history how they present these games further backs this.

6) The forest spirits being Koroks is because Hyrule is in an Era of Chaos, much like the flood in WW! And the Koroks are trying to save the world like they were trying to do in WW.

So this how my fan timeline goes:

|------------------------/-----------------WW/PH---ST
|SS--BotW--MC--OoT/MM
|---------\-------\----------------FSA---ALttP---ALBW/TFH---TLoZ/TAoL---FS
|----------\-------------------------------TP/LCT---HW/HWL

Dreams: OoX/LA

I believe that BotW Link is the Hero of Time before OoT Link and the Hero's Shade from TP as there is evidence proving such thing! And there's evidence of time travel that could potentially cause a split!

I'll explain more in a video in the near future! For now, this is all I can share! I really don't have the time to do a video right now.
 

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