Timeline Discussion

[Mangrove]

Wow. Looking back at the earliest pages on the Zelda Theory tab ~100 pages away to the pages where Hyrule Historia revealed the official timeline ~50 pages away, I think I can appreciate Nintendo releasing an official timeline much, much more. A whole sect of discussion/argumentation for Zelda theories had been vaporized (I also found the earliest incarnation of my fan timeline on this site as darklink01's timeline theory). It's still not perfect, and people have good reason not to accept it, but it's still something that moved our focus to theorizing other aspects without having to preface with our own timeline theories. It also seemed like fans solved most of the timeline by the time of SS's release:

Adult: SS - OoT - TWW/PH - ST
Child: SS - OoT/MM - TP
Classic: ALttP/LA - LoZ/AoL; OoS/OoA (somewhere in this line)
Four Swords: TMC - FS - FSA

Seeing how serious people got over tridents and titles, boats and one-off lines, official vs original manual translations, and dev comments (old and new), I much prefer the state we are in right now with Nintendo's timeline being the most official whilst having glaring issues. I think I've also lost some fun in theorizing it myself. It's easy and reasonable to accept other interpretations of the timeline when compared to the official one. Now, fan timelines are limited to in-game connections rather than out-of-game dev intentions, since the 'dev intention' timeline is the official one. BotW's placement being up to interpretation is also cool for now.

 

[Moblinking5000]

it does, it’s just covered by water.

No. The JP version of TWW makes it clear that Hyrule is literally erased.

Here's the NoA line:


''Wash away this ancient land of Hyrule! Let a ray of hope shine on the future of the world!!!''

Here's the translated JP line:

''Erase Hyrule, the land of the past. Give these children a bright future!!''

 

[Kreaal]

No. The JP version of TWW makes it clear that Hyrule is literally erased.

Here's the NoA line:


''Wash away this ancient land of Hyrule! Let a ray of hope shine on the future of the world!!!''

Here's the translated JP line:

''Erase Hyrule, the land of the past. Give these children a bright future!!''

Couldn’t Breath of the Wild come before wind Waker? Or couldn’t Hyrule of been restored?

 

[Moblinking5000]

Couldn’t Breath of the Wild come before wind Waker? Or couldn’t Hyrule of been restored?

Before? No. Ganon is sealed until the Great Flood after OoT, and the Koroks are said to have only taken that shape once they came to the Great Sea by the Deku Tree, meaning that TWW and BotW would have to be on different timeline branches(probable), or BotW would have to follow TWW (almost impossible as said above). And how can Hyrule be restored if it literally no longer exists?

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

Wow. Looking back at the earliest pages on the Zelda Theory tab ~100 pages away to the pages where Hyrule Historia revealed the official timeline ~50 pages away, I think I can appreciate Nintendo releasing an official timeline much, much more. A whole sect of discussion/argumentation for Zelda theories had been vaporized (I also found the earliest incarnation of my fan timeline on this site as darklink01's timeline theory). It's still not perfect, and people have good reason not to accept it, but it's still something that moved our focus to theorizing other aspects without having to preface with our own timeline theories. It also seemed like fans solved most of the timeline by the time of SS's release:

Adult: SS - OoT - TWW/PH - ST
Child: SS - OoT/MM - TP
Classic: ALttP/LA - LoZ/AoL; OoS/OoA (somewhere in this line)
Four Swords: TMC - FS - FSA

Seeing how serious people got over tridents and titles, boats and one-off lines, official vs original manual translations, and dev comments (old and new), I much prefer the state we are in right now with Nintendo's timeline being the most official whilst having glaring issues. I think I've also lost some fun in theorizing it myself. It's easy and reasonable to accept other interpretations of the timeline when compared to the official one. Now, fan timelines are limited to in-game connections rather than out-of-game dev intentions, since the 'dev intention' timeline is the official one. BotW's placement being up to interpretation is also cool for now.

I've felt similarly for awhile. Prior to Hyrule Historia theorizing was a bit of a chore because most people had their own timeline theories, and usually most other types of theories would end up devolving into people explaining their ideas on the timeline. Having a common timeline to use as a reference evened the field, and allowed for some deeper analytical theorizing throughout the last decade, which I thought was pretty cool, and a nice change of pace. Even if they stick with using BotW as a means to sort of revive timeline theorizing from here on out, it'd be really cool to have that aspect of theorizing again while also having an existing official framework to look back on.

 

[leroiducouscous]

Hello everyone !
I'm new here and I registered to talk with you about the Zelda timeline, which is one of my favorite entertainement subject for many years now, as I really really like this universe.

Personally, I like to see the zelda timeline as a way to create entertaining fan fictions. I'm not a big fan of Hyrule Historia...
I prefer the idea that everyone can imagine the story he/she likes the most when some elements in the story are not clearely depicted.
I'm also a fan of time-travel theories and stories which use them elegantly.

So if you're interested by it, I would like to present you my favorite vision of the Zelda timeline (by now)
By the way, english is not my native language, so I apologize for my eventual mistakes in my words.

My Zelda Timeline (c) leroiducouscous

drive.google.com

 

[AwdryFan1997]

Before? No. Ganon is sealed until the Great Flood after OoT, and the Koroks are said to have only taken that shape once they came to the Great Sea by the Deku Tree, meaning that TWW and BotW would have to be on different timeline branches(probable), or BotW would have to follow TWW (almost impossible as said above). And how can Hyrule be restored if it literally no longer exists?

Maybe it's New Hyrule from Spirit Tracks. Unless you're like me and you like to pretend that one never happened.

 

[Moblinking5000]

Maybe it's New Hyrule from Spirit Tracks. Unless you're like me and you like to pretend that one never happened.

Can't be; it has relics exclusive to Old Hyrule, such as the MS, and refers to the ToT as being in the ''birthplace of Hyrule'' which is only known to be true in Old Hyrule(in fact, the ToT doesn't even EXIST in New Hyrule).

And you have to explain how Ganon is around despite being Triforce'd to death.

 

[leroiducouscous]

About the koroks in BotW, I like to pretend that their evolution was hastened in the Wind Waker timeline by their life conditions, but it eventually happened in all the timelines.

 

[Mangrove]

Hello everyone !
I'm new here and I registered to talk with you about the Zelda timeline, which is one of my favorite entertainement subject for many years now, as I really really like this universe.

Personally, I like to see the zelda timeline as a way to create entertaining fan fictions. I'm not a big fan of Hyrule Historia...
I prefer the idea that everyone can imagine the story he/she likes the most when some elements in the story are not clearely depicted.
I'm also a fan of time-travel theories and stories which use them elegantly.

So if you're interested by it, I would like to present you my favorite vision of the Zelda timeline (by now)
By the way, english is not my native language, so I apologize for my eventual mistakes in my words.

My Zelda Timeline (c) leroiducouscous

drive.google.com

Welcome! I hope you have a swell time here!

For fan timelines, I would keep Link's Awakening after A Link to the Past since one of the Nightmare bosses at the end is Agahnim-styled. On your timeline, is Link's Awakening after the Oracle games because of the boat Link uses at the end?

Also, I don't often see 3 split fan timelines, so that's neat too.

 

[leroiducouscous]

For fan timelines, I would keep Link's Awakening after A Link to the Past since one of the Nightmare bosses at the end is Agahnim-styled. On your timeline, is Link's Awakening after the Oracle games because of the boat Link uses at the end?

Also, I don't often see 3 split fan timelines, so that's neat too.

I like the boat transition, indeed, but more importantly, since 1993, I've always considered that Link's Awakening was better as a sequel to The Adventure of Link rather than A Link to the Past.
In the background of Link's Awakening, we learn that Hyrule inhabitants fear Ganon's ashes, so they know who Ganon is. That wasn't the case in A Link to the Past, but that was the case in Zelda 1. Moreover, "Ganon's ashes" is a reference to the NES episodes.
I rather see the Agahnim-styled boss in Link's Awakening as a cameo fight, like others in the saga (like the giant bird of Wind Waker in Four Swords Aventures for instance), but not as a story element.

About the Oracles games, I also like to see them as a sequel to The Adventure of Link because of several little things. Link has the same Triforce mark on his hand in both games, Impa has the same role in both games, and Ganon's minions pursue the same goal in both games.
Moreover, Link apparently know the royal family at the beginning of the Oracles as he can enter Hyrule castle.

All of this led me to consider that Zelda 1, The Adventure of Link, Oracles and Link's Awakening all stage the same Link.

And in addition to this, I also like the transition between Link's Awakening and Breath of the Wild.
In Link's Awakening background, we learn that Link was "in search of wisdom that would make him better able to withstand the next threat to his homeland". And in Breath of the Wild background, we have a royal family who became able to predict the future ressurections of Ganon and who created weapons to counter him.


Otherwise, about the 3 split, I wasn't a fan of this at first when Hyrule Historia came out, even if it cleary was a clever way to connect Ocarina of Time and A Link to the Past, as it was supposed to be.
Back then I thought : why would we consider a timeline where Link loses in Ocarina of Time and not in other games (like The Adventure of Link for instance...) ?? And how this timeline could co-exist with the others in an unique global story ?? I mean, either Link wins, or he loses, but it can't be both in the same story. Except if there is a time travel to change something after he lost the first time...

Then I though about the case of Hyrule Warriors : Age of Calamity and I also remembered the Master Sword put the Hero of Time into sleep to protect him because he was too young to be the hero when he withdrew the sword.
The same way Breath of the Wild is a darker version of the story of Age of Calamity, I imagined there was originally a timeline where the Hero of Time took the sword, Ganondorf stole the Triforce, and then the hero and Zelda (and the sages) fought against him but as childs ! And they lost, because the hero wasn't strong enough. Then the Master Sword (Fi) went back in time at the moment Link took it and changed the past by putting Link into sleep to protect him until he would be strong enough.

 

[Moblinking5000]

Hello everyone !
I'm new here and I registered to talk with you about the Zelda timeline, which is one of my favorite entertainement subject for many years now, as I really really like this universe.

Personally, I like to see the zelda timeline as a way to create entertaining fan fictions. I'm not a big fan of Hyrule Historia...
I prefer the idea that everyone can imagine the story he/she likes the most when some elements in the story are not clearely depicted.
I'm also a fan of time-travel theories and stories which use them elegantly.

So if you're interested by it, I would like to present you my favorite vision of the Zelda timeline (by now)
By the way, english is not my native language, so I apologize for my eventual mistakes in my words.

My Zelda Timeline (c) leroiducouscous

drive.google.com

Putting aside the fact that I believe that the timeline as it's currently presented in the Encyclopedia and the official JP site is the correct one, there are some issues I have with your timeline:

-You place BotW at the end of your version of the DT. Now, I personally do believe it is on the DT, but how do you explain the direct mentions to the OoT sages when according to your fan timeline, Link died when he was still young, meaning he would have never awakened the sages, meaning they would not go down in history? (there's also a similar problem in regards to the AoL towns)

-OoX Link should be seperate from any other Link, as Link and Zelda don't know eachother. This is probably why Encyclopedia changed it, and it works better IMO.

-Why can't TFH and the FSS take place in the same places as they do on the official timeline?

 

[leroiducouscous]

-You place BotW at the end of your version of the DT. Now, I personally do believe it is on the DT, but how do you explain the direct mentions to the OoT sages when according to your fan timeline, Link died when he was still young, meaning he would have never awakened the sages, meaning they would not go down in history? (there's also a similar problem in regards to the AoL towns)

I think he still would be able to awake them as a child before battling Ganondorf, by following young Zelda's advices (not Sheik's ^^). Maybe it could even have been easier than 7 years later, as Ganondorf didn't have the time to corrupt the temples. In this scenario, Link would only lose the final battle. Ganondorf would then get the remaining Triforce pieces, and later the sages would receive help from Hyrule knights and still manage to seal Ganon - who became immortal because of the Triforce - in the dark world.

-Why can't TFH and the FSS take place in the same places as they do on the official timeline?

TFH certainly can, but the scenario of this episode has no connection with any other games, so I prefer to consider it as off-serie. It could fit absolutely everywhere in the timeline, even before Skyward Sword (why not...)

About the "Four sword trilogy", there are several things I don't like about it in the official timeline.

First, the fact that Skyward Sword and Minish Cap give two very different origin stories about Zelda's powers.
Because of that, I don't really like to see these two episodes in the same story...
Moreover, it feels kinda strange to me to insert Minish Cap between Skyward Sword and Ocarina of Time, as Minish Cap has no connection with either of these two episodes. When I replay Skyward Sword, the "natural" next episode to me is Ocarina of Time, not Minish Cap. And when I replay Minish Cap and then Four Swords, the "natural" next episode to me is Four Swords Adventures, not Ocarina of Time.

Then, I don't really like the idea that Four Sword Adventures comes after Twilight Princess, because, again, there is no connection between these two games.
Besides, I don't really like the idea either that Four Sword Adventures stages another gerudo Ganondorf in the same story than Ocarina of Time. It creates a very repetitive story in my eyes, and I prefer to consider that the only timeline where Ganon can revive is the one where he could make a wish to become immortal.

 

[Moblinking5000]

I think he still would be able to awake them as a child before battling Ganondorf, by following young Zelda's advices (not Sheik's ^^). Maybe it could even have been easier than 7 years later, as Ganondorf didn't have the time to corrupt the temples. In this scenario, Link would only lose the final battle. Ganondorf would then get the remaining Triforce pieces, and later the sages would receive help from Hyrule knights and still manage to seal Ganon - who became immortal because of the Triforce - in the dark world.

So, you think that Link isn't sealed for seven years in this timeline when tries to pick up the MS in this branch?

First, the fact that Skyward Sword and Minish Cap give two very different origin stories about Zelda's powers.

If you're referring to what I think you're referring to, they don't have to be mutually exclusive.

And when I replay Minish Cap and then Four Swords, the "natural" next episode to me is Four Swords Adventures, not Ocarina of Time.

Ganon is in FSA though, and we know its not his first appearance since FSA Ganon is a reincarnation of the previous Ganon, which means Ganon must have died before. No reason why TP can't be that game. OoT makes sense as Ganon's first appearance(with Aonuma confirming it), because there are no previous conflicts with Ganon mentioned in OoT.

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

I rather see the Agahnim-styled boss in Link's Awakening as a cameo fight, like others in the saga (like the giant bird of Wind Waker in Four Swords Aventures for instance), but not as a story element.

Link's Awakening is obviously some type of a sequel to A Link to the Past, not only is a shadow of Agahnim shown, but also Lamola and other bosses from A Link to the Past. This isn't a coincidence.