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A Link Between Worlds This Game Isn't Good: Here's Why

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
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Jan 10, 2011
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i'll say it once before in another forum, i'll say it again.....Hero Mode is an excuse of a mode to say "see this incredibly easy game? well we added a challenge to get through it".

You know what would really be impressive? If ALBW was challenging "WITHOUT" Hero Mode. where you actually value heart pieces just playing the normal mode.

A Link Between Worlds isn't "incredibly easy". If you want to play Zelda games with that status, go play the GameCube ones. ALBW isn't downright hard, but really, outside of Zelda II, what Zelda game is? The answer is none. Some are more challenging than others, but Zelda's always been a series that strikes a balance between not too hard & not too easy (with the exceptions of Zelda II & the GCN games). People just frequently fail to realize that they were less experienced with not just the Zelda series, but games in general as kids (not to mention they didn't have fully-developed brains yet), and on the flip side, that they've become much better as gamers over time and DO have fully-developed brains now.

Games are always going to seem harder as a kid and easier as an adult -- that's just reality. Granted, a lot of NES games were absurdly hard (largely due to 8-bit limitations), and a lot of modern games are incredibly easy, since most 3rd party devs just luuuuv appealing to the lowest common denominator, but Zelda's a special case in that the majority of its games have a pretty similar challenge level. I think it could potentially be argued that ALttP is harder than ALBW, but that's mainly due to the lower frame rate & rigid-in-comparison control scheme, which is artificial challenge. ALttP's puzzle-solving doesn't even touch ALBW's, though.
 
Joined
Sep 4, 2014
A Link Between Worlds isn't "incredibly easy". If you want to play Zelda games with that status, go play the GameCube ones. ALBW isn't downright hard, but really, outside of Zelda II, what Zelda game is? The answer is none. Some are more challenging than others, but Zelda's always been a series that strikes a balance between not too hard & not too easy (with the exceptions of Zelda II & the GCN games). People just frequently fail to realize that they were less experienced with not just the Zelda series, but games in general as kids (not to mention they didn't have fully-developed brains yet), and on the flip side, that they've become much better as gamers over time and DO have fully-developed brains now.

Games are always going to seem harder as a kid and easier as an adult -- that's just reality. Granted, a lot of NES games were absurdly hard (largely due to 8-bit limitations), and a lot of modern games are incredibly easy, since most 3rd party devs just luuuuv appealing to the lowest common denominator, but Zelda's a special case in that the majority of its games have a pretty similar challenge level. I think it could potentially be argued that ALttP is harder than ALBW, but that's mainly due to the lower frame rate & rigid-in-comparison control scheme, which is artificial challenge. ALttP's puzzle-solving doesn't even touch ALBW's, though.

in comparison to the older Zeldas that i still continue to play....i have a harder on the older ones than on the newer ones. and this is still around gamecube time. the only 2 games on gamecube are Twilight Princess and Four Swords Adventure.
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
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in comparison to the older Zeldas that i still continue to play....i have a harder on the older ones than on the newer ones. and this is still around gamecube time. the only 2 games on gamecube are Twilight Princess and Four Swords Adventure.

Did you seriously just forget about The Wind Waker...?

I also can't imagine having a tougher time playing TWW and TP than any game after them. They're good games, but they put up little-to-no resistance -- there's not much skill involved in overcoming their challenges.
 
Joined
Sep 4, 2014
Wind Waker isn't much to say...but TP wasn't morbidly easy compared to TWW. either way...ALBW was still embarrassingly easy.....under 2 days it can be beat without dying a single time. ALttP offered that challenge. but the thing is: it was an actual challenge.
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
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On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
Wind Waker isn't much to say...but TP wasn't morbidly easy compared to TWW. either way...ALBW was still embarrassingly easy.....under 2 days it can be beat without dying a single time. ALttP offered that challenge. but the thing is: it was an actual challenge.

Lack of dying =/= "embarrassingly easy." The most important factor in game design regarding difficulty is stimulation. Even if a game isn't hard, so long as the design requires your attention in order to avoid hazards, then it's done its job (unless it's a series like Devil May Cry, in which case not being absurdly hard is unacceptable). ALBW nails this, as does every Zelda post-TP, because there's always enough going on in a location that doesn't just take mindless efforts to overcome. You just can't say that about the GCN entries.
 
Joined
Sep 4, 2014
Lack of dying =/= "embarrassingly easy." The most important factor in game design regarding difficulty is stimulation. Even if a game isn't hard, so long as the design requires your attention in order to avoid hazards, then it's done its job (unless it's a series like Devil May Cry, in which case not being absurdly hard is unacceptable). ALBW nails this, as does every Zelda post-TP, because there's always enough going on in a location that doesn't just take mindless efforts to overcome. You just can't say that about the GCN entries.

I disagree...a game should be designed as a game....and really, what Zelda provides is a sense of reward. Not dying a single time =/= Lack of dying. But the puzzles were also easy, the game can be beaten in an incredibly short time.....i believe the Zelda has been failing since Wind Waker. and i "can" just say that about them, and i can do better. i can explain it.
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
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Jan 10, 2011
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On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
I disagree...a game should be designed as a game

Ladies and gentlemen, redundancy at its finest.

In all seriousness, even if that statement wasn't redundant, it wouldn't change what I said about stimulation being the most important factor with difficulty in video games.

and really, what Zelda provides is a sense of reward.

Yes, and every Zelda does this. Some games aren't as good about it as others, but the series is still consistently good with it. I'd say the best games about it are ALttP, MM, TMC, SS, and ALBW.

Not dying a single time =/= Lack of dying.

Except those are the same thing.

But the puzzles were also easy

I again refer to how we get better at games as time goes on, especially when a series that we've grown up playing is involved. I'm not going to say they're mind-bending like the Portal games', and I'm not going to say that I had a particularly difficult time beating the game due to my lengthy track record as both a gamer and Zelda fan, but they're certainly at a much higher caliber than TWW & TP. Quite a few dungeons are about on par with what you'll find in MM & SS.

the game can be beaten in an incredibly short time

Did you ever consider that it might just be a pretty short game? (Hint: it is)

i believe the Zelda has been failing since Wind Waker.

Different people believe different things, so to each his own, but I would argue that TWW is one of, if not the weakest entry in the series. It's still very good overall, and it has a lot to offer, but again, it's pathetically easy, and the sailing is nothing short of a snorefest during lengthy sessions.

and i "can" just say that about them, and i can do better. i can explain it.

I don't even know what you're trying to say here. You also took what I said too literally.
 

DarkestLink

Darkest of all Dark Links
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
I'm 50/50 on the rental system. I didn't like it, but the current modern Zelda system wouldn't work with a non-linear game. I don't think I need to name the real culprit here. Anyone who's seen me post knows what I'm getting at. Either way, the normal system wouldn't have worked here.

Ehh...I'm not gonna complain about getting too much rupees. Grinding rupees is a chore and something that should be avoided. What I'm more disappointed with is that we even used rupees. Ravio could have made this much more interesting by asking us to "trade something of equal value" for his items and send us on a quest to find treasure or something. That would have been a lot more interesting and fun IMO.

It's easy, yes, but I wouldn't say it really stands out as being easy among Zelda standards, unless you were expecting it to have aLttP's difficulty.

Yeah, the story's weak, even by Zelda standards, but considering it's non-linear, it was still a lot stronger than I expected.

As for style...yeah, I would have preferred something that didn't make Link look 5 years old...<.<
 
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Joined
Sep 4, 2014
Ladies and gentlemen, redundancy at its finest.
Perhaps you should learn some manners.

In all seriousness, even if that statement wasn't redundant, it wouldn't change what I said about stimulation being the most important factor with difficulty in video games.
Redundant would be saying "Tonight, i want to rock you tonight". What i said wasn't redundant. i want a game to be designed with game in mind, which includes difficulty. And the reason i want more difficulty is because what little was stimulationg, didn't last long.


Yes, and every Zelda does this. Some games aren't as good about it as others, but the series is still consistently good with it. I'd say the best games about it are ALttP, MM, TMC, SS, and ALBW.
Thats one factor i'm mentioning "AGAINST" ALBW. I already mentioned why, but i suppose it wont hurt to reiterate that you get the big prize pretty fast but the reward is pretty slow.


Except those are the same thing.
Not dying a single time where death is possible yet improbable is not the same as a game lacking the ability to die. Its like comparing Wario Land 2 to Super Mario bros. Thats the problem with ALBW, there's death that can be possible, but it doesn't try to make you die.



I again refer to how we get better at games as time goes on, especially when a series that we've grown up playing is involved. I'm not going to say they're mind-bending like the Portal games', and I'm not going to say that I had a particularly difficult time beating the game due to my lengthy track record as both a gamer and Zelda fan, but they're certainly at a much higher caliber than TWW & TP. Quite a few dungeons are about on par with what you'll find in MM & SS.
I reiterate, i'm currently playing the older Zeldas and those are still much harder than ALBW. It doesn't matter how well i became with it, because i'm still having a more difficult time. The problem is its still designed to be easy. And MM had dungeons with a time limit, so i doubt they had room to say


Did you ever consider that it might just be a pretty short game? (Hint: it is)
Rude comments aside, Zelda has never been as short as it was except for Four Swords, and that was more of a minigame. The problem is that its short, not that it has short-gameplay. And that will never be justified.


Different people believe different things, so to each his own, but I would argue that TWW is one of, if not the weakest entry in the series. It's still very good overall, and it has a lot to offer, but again, it's pathetically easy, and the sailing is nothing short of a snorefest during lengthy sessions.
TWW mostly offered "water" but the problem with ALBW is it had potential to actually be a fullfledge game, the length of the other handheld games but they end up being shorter.

I don't even know what you're trying to say here. You also took what I said too literally.
IF you're saying i took it too literally, then you know what i'm trying to say.


EDIT: Another problem i find with ALBW is that it moves too much of what previously happened just for the story to exist. it was most definitely not "non-intrusive". The story was basically retconned and the phrase of the master sword being sealed "FOREVER". ANd this made sense as in Zelda 1, Zelda 2, and LInk's Awakening you don't obtain the master sword. In Oracle games you do but more as an optional item by using the password system. so it can easily be considered "extra" just like the bombchus and the biggoron sword.

But there's also the fact that it mentions the seven sages other than Zelda in the portrait. And etc. etc. But hat i did like in the game as the idea of splitting up the triforce, and that makes sense since Zelda 1 and Zelda 2 you're not looking for the whole triforce, you're looking for single piece of it. But unfortunately, it makes the timeline of the fallen hero that much more redundant.
 
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Joined
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Good game or not its a matter of opinion Octo isn't going to change his even though the majority disagrees with him, ALBW was well recieved by fans, this argument/discussion is pointless if one individual is unwilling to even consider the points of another you guys might as well be in trenches shooting blanks at each other gaining no ground, that said I think ALBW is a great game, Octo thinks its a bad game I tried to see where Octorokstar is coming from and I disagree but I still took time to consider his point of view that's how a discussion like this should be done, but in the end the reality of it all is that ALBW according to the greater majority is a good to great game, this started with Octo's opinion and it well end with it unchanged, to conclude this discussion is pointless if it's not done respectfully with one another as it is on a set path and only that path with one ending so let's make it a smoother ride.
 
Joined
Sep 4, 2014
I tihnk its a matter of really what you want out of a game...and Zelda has always been to a certain degree "challenging". SS is just slightly more challenging as i get tired moving the wiimote and takes a series of breaks. But regardless, Thats one of the things this ALBW problem has...its far too redundant, and not that original. no one has yet to tackle the unoriginal, completely grey story this game has. sure the ending somewhat makes up with a plot twist of finally showing a bizarro link. but in the end, the game is heavily designed as fan-serive unlike the other Zeldas where their stories are designed to be their own. Even Twilight Princess showed a little more originality.

The dungeons were indeed not as dynamic as the predecessors. Whats there to agree? sure they were interesting when it came to the wall merging, but not all of them took advantage of it. the one where the masked monster using bombs offered only slightly invisible walls, and some interesting dark/light features. But the turtle dungeon is pretty straight forward.

The ice dungeon is the only one that i feel really tried. But the bosses. they were easy.....you had a lot of room to avoid their hits, you had a lot of room to attack them, and worst of all they didn't all take advantage of the new feature this game offered. But lets look at the battle between Ganon from ALttP and Yuga/Ganon from ALBW. yuga/ganon brings back the invisible fight from the original Zelda but with such little room, you can find him easily. its a matter of just a few hits then it goes to wall-merging. but it didn't challenge you too much with it. there wasn't any moving walls that really made you want to hit it (and why shouldn't i ask for a challenge in the final battle?) Takes really 2 to 3 hits and he's defeated

With ALttP ganon, he would swing his staff at you, then he would throw a ring of fire bats at you. and when you still managed that, you had to use the fire rod to light the torches in order to reveal him, but not only that you had to stun him with the arrow, and avoiding the fire bats if you didn't get him in time where they would normally push you off in the pit to where you had to start all over again. even if you thought it was a piece of cake, you could see the intended challenge. in ALBW i dont see that.


But simply saying "i disagree" is easy to do, actually providing examples to defend your opinion is another. What made this game so great? Lacking in originality?

EDIT: ALso, it doesn't really matter to me, what anyone thinks the majority is. i think it matters most when someone actually brings several points against the majority. I bet if i said Ocarina of Time sucked, that would need actual valid points to why it "Didn't". but overall, i feel this game is just fan-service. Sadly, but whats there to love about it? Hero mode is an excuse....
 
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Dio

~ It's me, Dio!~
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I tihnk its a matter of really what you want out of a game...and Zelda has always been to a certain degree "challenging". SS is just slightly more challenging as i get tired moving the wiimote and takes a series of breaks,

Might I suggest you hit the gym, you would be able to go for hours then.
 
Joined
Sep 4, 2014
Might I suggest you hit the gym, you would be able to go for hours then.

might i suggest you all stop using insults to prove absolutely nothing but how "mature" you all are (that includes JucieJ). My point is still ALBW's failure to try to be anything more than just a minigame.
 
Joined
Jun 14, 2011
I think ALBW was a good game overall, but I do agree with some of the points that were made. ALBW had alot of fan service and to me that's what kinda ruined the game. I'd prefer it if Nintendo made games their way instead of being pressured by fans to make it like this and that. For a sequel of ALttP, I don't think ALBW delivered very well. Sure you had the nostalgic overworld and enemies but it certainly didn't inherit the difficulty of it's prequel.

I agree that this game was too easy. I literally flew through the game. Apart from a certain puzzle in the Dark Palace, 99% of the them could be solved in under a minute. I didn't have to think twice before figuring out how to solve a particular puzzle. enemies didn't pose much of a threat, neither did the bosses. I don't think Hero Mode made it anymore difficult, it just made you more cautious about getting hit.

I don't mind a Zelda game being non-linear as such, but I think the renting system made the game too non-linear. I'd rather they'd be some linear structure in play but at the same time give some freedom of what order you do dungeon. I think Ocarina of Time and A Link to the Past nailed this. Though it was compulsory to complete the first dungeon, you could if you wanted to complete the other dungeon in any order. You could say ALBW did this, but it was done very causally thanks to the renting system.

ALBW was a good game in general, but I do think it was ruined with all the fan service, and it didn't inherit some of the things in ALttP (Like for example the difficulty)that made it an exciting game to play.
 

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