The Song of Storms Paradox

[Garo]

Time loops are created when a substantial amount of energy is amassed and released, creating an "entry event". An entry event is the transmission of mass or energy into the timeline that was not previously present. In this case, energy was introduced into the timeline, creating the vibrations that made the Song of Storms. The entry event coincided with Young Link's entry into the Windmill as part of his traditional exploration of the new town he was introduced to. Guru-Guru, not able to trace the source of wayward vibrations, attributed the song to Young Link. When Adult Link enters the Windmill, Guru-Guru explains that he heard the song "from that boy", even though the song was actually vibrations from an entry event. Thus Adult Link learned the song. Then by use of the passage created by the Pedestal of Time, he was able to go back in time and play it for Guru-Guru, sealing the time loop created by the entry event.

What caused the entry event, however, is the real source of debate. My bet is that it was Majora. Majora needed two things - 1, the Song of Storms, and 2, Link - in order to play his game with Link since the other Masked Children ignore him. Since Link was preoccupied with saving Hyrule, Majora needed to guide Link along the way so he could find his way into Termina. So Majora - a being possessing incredible power - created the entry event.

Did I just make all of that up? Yes. But it was fun.

 

[Caleb, Of Asui]

I like GaroXicon's theory about the time travel creating the vibrations of the song. The way it's laid out in-game, it's most definitely a paradox, or in a sense, the song created itself. The intricacies of time travel somehow created the song and the event where Link, as a child, plays the song for the guy in the windmill, even though, in the order Link perceives things, he learns the song from the guy in the windmill before going back and playing it. In that sense, even though Link's perceived chronology is skewed by time travel and he experiences the events in reverse order, they actually occur in forward order according to the real chronology. Child Link, due to his skewed perception of chronology, already knows how the windmill guy's going to teach him the song and thus how the song goes, and plays the song. He hasn't learned the song from the windmill guy yet, but has the memory of it and therefore can play the song. Ultimately, it seems the answer is that the song is created by time travel. Link only knows it because of time travel. So, the sequence of who taught whom would go:

Time Travel --> Child Link --> Windmill Guy --> Adult Link

Now Link learns the song twice. :/ He doesn't remember it the second time because he experiences the events in the wrong order. This is starting to get redundant, though. I think you guys know what I'm saying.

 

[Rafa1996]

Basically, there's no original song. The windmill guy teaches Adult Link a song he said a boy 7 years ago played in front of him, Link goes back in time 7 years and goes to the windmill as a child and plays the song the kid played in front of the guy and then taught it to Link in the future; 7 years later from that point(from the windmill guy's perspective), a young man enters the windmill, he takes out an Ocarina, the windmill guy, seeing the Ocarina, remembers that day 7 years ago where a kid with an Ocarina played a song in front of him, and teaches it to the young man, then the young man goes back in time.......


See??? I could go on like that forever. Look out Bootstrap Paradox in Wikipedia.

 

[Toonwolflink418]

link in the past memorized the tones of guru guru's song i could, and played it song of storms "activated" by accident and then guru guru remembered taught A link song of storms,and changed the past... easy as... solving a paradox...

 

[Tsukasa112]

What everyone else said, or it was just an inconsistency that nintendo though would be interesting to throw in there.

Or maybe Nintendo made him to be such an awesome guy they wanted him to be a Time Paradox himself.

 

[Squirrel]

For those people who watch Doctor Who:
Time is more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff.

 

[PK Love Omega]

I haven't watched the past 4 episodes, I wouldn't know D: Sounds Like Matt though

And I thought I was the only one who thought about this. You never even needed to go to Windmill guy as a child, therefore, you couldn't ruin the windmill. And, Link learns it as an adult. Maybe a hint? But still, it makes no sense.
BUT you do learn the Song of storms in Termina during the events of MM. This is after the doors of time are closed. Link must of went back to Hyrule, and may of messed up the windmill to stop the Chaos of the Shadow Temple. (A shadow beast escapes from the well, and maybe couldn't get out with the water being there as a child aswell)

And sorry if the water was up as a child before the Shadow Temple, I haven't played it in a while now o.o

 

[Rafa1996]

Actually, it was David Tennant, he said that in Blink.

In that episode, the same things happens.(the paradox)

 

[FLUDDzone]

Adult Link learns it in the future and Young Link in the past teaches it to him.
How is this a paradox? You're overthinking it all.

 

[Satsy]

Adult Link learns it in the future and Young Link in the past teaches it to him.
How is this a paradox? You're overthinking it all.

Yes, you learned it in the future, but he still learned it from you first. After all, Link is still the same person, be he an adult or a child, especially at that point. So its the chicken and the egg dilemma. One had to come first, but truly which remains a mystery.

(Unless you overthink it).

 

[Scorpion's Claw]

I love this paradox Nintendo's way of saying: You know what? This is a game and we can do whatever we want! (even learn a song to the person you learned the song of before he knew the song...)

 

[Geniasis]

That's precisely how I view the Master Sword time travel in OoT. It's just one solid timeline that Link experiences out of order. He goes to the future, then returns to the past to where he left off, goes back to where he left off in the future, etc.

It's funny looking at it from an outside perspective, because really young Link runs up to the Master Sword, touches it, and then immediately goes on his way with some extra knowledge of the future.

^This. There's only one timeline until the moment Zelda sends Link back into the past and shuts the door of time.

Yes, you learned it in the future, but he still learned it from you first. After all, Link is still the same person, be he an adult or a child, especially at that point. So its the chicken and the egg dilemma. One had to come first, but truly which remains a mystery.

(Unless you overthink it).

Let's pretend that Shigeru Miyamoto created LoZ because I traveled back in time and gave him the idea for it. Let's also say that I did that because he came up to me personally with a copy of the game and thanked me for inspiring him.

Which came first? The Bootstrap Paradox.

 

[Rytex]

This is a very overused thing to post on the Zelda Theory page, but there seems to be no stopping it. Great minds think alike, after all.

Anyway, It is an ontological, or "Bootstrap", paradox. An object or idea has no clear origin. For example, the obvious case with the Song of Storms, where Link learns it from a man in the future and teaches it to him in the past, creating a time loop. Other examples include the Back to the Future song "Johnny B. Goode", written by Chuck Berry. Marty sings it in the past, and it is relayed to Chuck Berry, who writes it and gets the credit. Time loop! In Red vs. Blue, The name for the Tank is Sheila. Church goes back in time to correct mistakes found in the future (only to find that he caused them in the time traveling), and in the process meets a tank named Phyllis. He asks "Why not Sheila?" to which the tank responds by renaming herself Shiela. Time loop! The entire Doctor Who series is full of them.

The ontological paradox is something of a popular plot point in many stories. But of course, remember Nintendo's philosophy if it hurts your brain too much: Gameplay first, story second.

 

[FLUDDzone]

Yes, you learned it in the future, but he still learned it from you first. After all, Link is still the same person, be he an adult or a child, especially at that point. So its the chicken and the egg dilemma. One had to come first, but truly which remains a mystery.

(Unless you overthink it).

:/ WTF?
The past came first...if you can't understand that, I won't even bother explaining it...

 

[Satsy]

:/ WTF?
The past came first...if you can't understand that, I won't even bother explaining it...

Past comes first but Link comes from both directions here. Link didn't learn it in the past, and the windmill guy didn't know it in the past. So it came from the future. If you can't understand the paradox, I won't bother explaining it beyond this.