The Future of the Hylian Knight Usergroup

[Seth]

As far as HKs going public...If a reason we don't is that it would offend people to have their nomination threads be able to be seen by them (to be judged etc), then what makes it okay to do it behind their backs on a secret forum?

 

[Ganondork]

As far as HKs going public...If a reason we don't is that it would offend people to have their nomination threads be able to be seen by them (to be judged etc), then what makes it okay to do it behind their backs on a secret forum?

Some people get upset when any bit of criticism comes their way, regardless of how politely it's phrased. This puts a lot of pressure on the Hylian Knights, and may greatly alter the outcome for the sake of not setting members off. People undeserving of the rank could get in like this. There is a reason why voting is private during elections; to prevent outside forces from altering their vote.

In addition, what about people who are upset when they aren't nominated? We've seen people getting upset about not being nominated for the GKAs, so imagine for something like Hylian Knights. Sometimes ignorance really is bliss. It's really an uncomfortable position to be in when a member hounds a Hylian Knight for not nominating them. I know that some Hylian Knight business gets leaked, but it would be notably worse if it was entirely public.

 

[Jamie]

Some people get upset when any bit of criticism comes their way, regardless of how politely it's phrased. This puts a lot of pressure on the Hylian Knights, and may greatly alter the outcome for the sake of not setting members off. People undeserving of the rank could get in like this. There is a reason why voting is private during elections; to prevent outside forces from altering their vote.

I'm sorry this is way way different. A Presidential candidate who has volunteered to be in the election and some random user who has no idea they are even being discussed are completely different things. I'm a bit tired of this comparison.

 

[Terminus]

@Keef That's a terrible analogy. This isn't the public voting for their leader. This isn't even close. This is more akin to congress electing themselves.

 

[Ganondork]

I'm sorry this is way way different. A Presidential candidate who has volunteered to be in the election and some random user who has no idea they are even being discussed are completely different things. I'm a bit tired of this comparison.

@Keef That's a terrible analogy. This isn't the public voting for their leader. This isn't even close. This is more akin to congress electing themselves.

Whether the analogy is bad or not does not really detract from the point.

 

[Terminus]

Whether the analogy is bad or not does not really detract from the point.

When the point is based on a bad analogy it rather does matter.

 

[Ganondork]

When the point is based on a bad analogy it rather does matter.

Except it wasn't. It was a point I threw in at the end. I fully fleshed out my point before even bringing it up.

 

[Jamie]

Uhh...Yes it does, it totally does. The Hylian Knights are nominating people that possibly don't even want to be talked about. I'm sure Seth would consider opting out of the Hylian Knight's process completely. I know that even if I were not to opt out, I would want to see what people are saying about me. Presidential candidates have agreed to the current system. Also, Hylian Knights aren't even fully private! Hylian Knights discuss their votes among themselves, so it really is just secluding people.

 

[Justac00lguy]

Uhh...Yes it does, it totally does. The Hylian Knights are nominating people that possibly don't even want to be talked about. I'm sure Seth would consider opting out of the Hylian Knight's process completely.

People could always opt out an inform the Knights they have no intention of being discussed. There is no rule against this; if you don't want to be discussed, let it be known.

I know that even if I were not to opt out, I would want to see what people are saying about me.

Like Keith said, sometimes ignorance is bliss. Plus like Matt said in another post, most of what we say is constrictive criticism if there are any negatives. Most threads focus purely on the positives of a member. We are all judged privately, what about when future mods are discussed, should everyone who is mentioned privately be notified they've been brought up and be given every little detail?

Presidential candidates have agreed to the current system. Also, Hylian Knights aren't even fully private! Hylian Knights discuss their votes among themselves, so it really is just secluding people.

The Event Staff have a private section, successful article applicants have a private section, the mods/admins have a private section, and so do the Nobles. Are these people seconding me members who don't have access? Plus before you bring in an argument I've seen you say before about this, remember your point is based around a section being secluded.

 

[Terminus]

The Event Staff have a private section, people who's article applicants have a private section, the mods/admins have a private section, and so do the Nobles. Are these people seconding me members who don't have access? Plus before you bring in an argument I've seen you say before about this, remember your point is based around a section being secluded.

Event Staff: Work happens there, along with secret event planning.

Article Center: More work. You don't want people who aren't good at writing trying to edit a random article.

Nobles: Same story as HK from our view, just even less active.

Mods: Another Forum Staff section, but I don't know exactly what occurs there so I can't say.

 

[Jamie]

Like Keith said sometimes ignorance is bliss. Plus like Matt said in another post, most of what we say is constrictive criticism if there are any negatives. Most threads focus purely on the positives of a member.

But we cannot see this. We can take your word for it, sure, but seeing it is a totally different thing.

The Event Staff have a private section, people who's article applicants have a private section, the mods/admins have a private section, and so do the Nobles. Are these people seconding me members who don't have access? Plus before you bring in an argument I've seen you say before about this, remember your point is based around a section being secluded.

First of all, I was just telling Keith why his argument was flawed. Secondly, yes, you are totally being secluded from the boards you don't have access to, such as the Nobles board. It is 110% seclusion. It's all about weighing out the importance of things here. At the end of the day I don't really care about the seclusion, but I will do you the favor of explaining the argument to you, which I believe is quite strong. So, a few basic points:

1. This thread is NOT about the Event Staff or Mods/Admin boards, etc. Stop making this about something it's not. We are discussing the Hylian Knights. If you or anyone else has a problem with the seclusion on other boards, then make a thread about it.
2. These boards are apples and oranges. They serve different purposes.
3. Although I would like to see what Mods/Admins/ES/whomever says about me when they are picking new staff members, simply put, we all know this isn't possible. Perhaps it isn't really reasonable for the Hylian Knight votes to be public. But the bottom line is, why do we need a pointless rank, where all they do is judge whether other people deserve their rank or not? Mods and Admins do things for the forum, so arguing that they should be removed based on seclusion is insane! The idea here is the cons outweigh the pros of the HK rank.

That's pretty much it. Please stop comparing the HKs to other ranks; they aren't the same.

 

[Terminus]

Iirc, the public doesn't elect congress either so I don't see how this is relevant. Hell, the public doesn't technically choose the president either.

Do you even know how voting works? Congress is indeed voted in by the public (it's just divided into constituencies), and the President is elected via indirect public vote with the Electoral college system. Either way, the people are the ones who cast the votes for who represents them, not existing politicians.

 

[Jamie]

Iirc,

No offense, but you don't...

 

[CynicalSquid]

Do you even know how voting works? Congress is indeed voted in by the public (it's just divided into constituencies), and the President is elected via indirect public vote with the Electoral college system. Either way, the people are the ones who cast the votes for who represents them, not existing politicians.

Oh ok

Sorry I'm a *******. I should just stop posting now.

No offense, but you don't...

Ok, I know I'm ********. I'll just shut up now.

 

[Jamie]

I said no offense, and I meant no offense. Education is a wonderful thing. Although I feel initially a bit insulted when someone tells me I'm wrong, I eventually am glad they did so.