The Existence of a Fourth Goddess

[Doc]

We all are familiar with the three goddesses Nayru, Din, and Farore. They have been mentioned in several Zelda titles and are well known for being the creators of the triforce. This theory did arise from the tetraforce theory, however this will have little to do with the tetraforce.

The three golden goddesses have all been associated to a color and element; Din-red & fire, Nayru-blue & water, Farore-green & wind. In the games Four Swords and Four Swords Adventures Link becomes four separate bodies. One is green, one is red, and one is blue. Or, the colors often associated with the three goddesses. Only there is a fourth Link, a purple one. The Minish Cap explains that the Four Sword that broke Link into four was forged from the combination of the four elements. Fire is red, Water is blue, Wind is green, and purple is Earth. Once again, we see the three goddesses' elements with the exception of one extra.

Many have theorized the fourth triforce was created by an evil goddess, and while the triforce may or may not exist, the goddess still might. I believe that this goddess may have been the creator of the monsters and dark beings that Link fights throughout his quest. You may challenge this with "Farore created the life", but Farore created life to uphold the law. These monsters were created to break it, thus there savage and brutish actions. The goddess's possible evil is supported by the fact that earth and death go hand in hand. The Earth Temple in Wind Waker is a dungeon of death. The Shadow Medallion of Ocarina of Time is purple, much like the element of earth in TMC. Ikana Canyon of Majora's Mask is home of the Stone Tower Temple. Stone[/B Tower Temple. While this rocky canyon can be associated with earth, this area's main theme is also death.

Ikana Kingdom is also riddled with images depicting the triforce. It is not, however, being praised. It is seen on the tongues of the statues, and included on the bottom of some platforms to get to the temple. Even at the temple, there is a burning hand pointing towards the sky. The use of the triforce is a disgrace hear, almost as though the creators of the temple despised the goddesses, or maybe the fourth did.

If we look at the OoT shield (no, I am not supporting the tetraforce theory), we see the triforce, the crest of Hylia, and a fourth triforce. Is this possibly an hierarchy of praise? The top symbolizing the three golden goddesses, below them Hylia, and even further below is the fourth goddess. Also to note, the triforce is pointing down, possibly towards the earth.

While this may not be the strongest theory out there, I just have been thinking about it alot lately, and will do further research.

 

[Dragoncat]

Well it sounds possible, but the monsters could also have been created by Demise. Maybe this evil goddess created all the bad things in the world? Sickness, hate...yeah I guess that can also include monsters. Maybe Demise was just a demon king who worshiped this evil goddess and was turned into a god himself. Idk.

I've seen people say Majora is a goddess...we can say that's the evil goddess right there. Since you brought up Ikana Canyon and Stone Tower Temple, which is in MM. So...do you think this evil goddess is Majora?

 

[Doc]

Well it sounds possible, but the monsters could also have been created by Demise. Maybe this evil goddess created all the bad things in the world? Sickness, hate...yeah I guess that can also include monsters. Maybe Demise was just a demon king who worshiped this evil goddess and was turned into a god himself. Idk.

I've seen people say Majora is a goddess...we can say that's the evil goddess right there. Since you brought up Ikana Canyon and Stone Tower Temple, which is in MM. So...do you think this evil goddess is Majora?

I do not have any idea who this goddess may or may not be. And Demise could not have created the monsters, he is the Demon King. The word king does not imply he created the monsters. Even kings must have a god in Zelda lore. I dont believe it once mentions him being a god. He is powerful, yes, but clearly not a divine entity.

 

[Dragoncat]

I guess since he was the rival of Hylia, a minor goddess, he would be a minor god...idk.

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

Din is associated with fire, but earth also. The Deku tree in OoT tells link hyrules creation story and he says something along the lines of, Din... with her flaming arms she cultivated the land and created the red earth. Din is associated with fire and earth, Nayru with water, and Farore with nature. There are only 3 goddesses. If there was going to be a fourth then Skyward sword would have been the perfect game to introduce something like that, but it didn't.

 

[Collbard]

I think this is interesting, but I think there is some danger is giving too much significance to colors, numbers, elements, and symbols across the series. There are definitely connections to be made and exploring those connections is certainly worthwhile; but, giving them too much significance can lead to a chase to find something that does not exist. I don't feel like you've really presented enough to prove or disprove anything, so I'm just going to throw out some thoughts.

First, Hylia is without a doubt a fourth goddess. Now, if we were to create a chart of a Hyrulian Chain of Being, Hylia would probably exist below Din, Nayru, and Farore. She is at least a "lesser" goddess in the sense that she was not one of the creators, but she was entrusted with protecting the Triforce when Din, Nayru, and Farore left. Frankly, if there is a need for an "Earth" goddess to be associated with the Earth element of the Four Sword, then I think Hylia fills that role as she was the goddess that remained on the earth. The Goddess of the Earth, if you will.

Now, if you really wanted to play with this idea that earth and shadow are connected, you could say that Hylia's absence from the Earth (in that she relinquished her power) left a "shadow" or void of sorts (the kind that would allow for evil to finally obtain the Triforce). But, I think this line of thinking, as well as the line of thinking you initially presented, leads to problems, specifically concerning the medallions of OoT. The Fire, Water, and Forest medallions probably correspond to Din, Nayru, and Farore, but if the goddesses are supposed to be represented in each aspect of the Four Sword, is Forest really closer to wind than earth? Further, if we assume a fourth Goddess that is associated with Shadow, what stops us from assuming two more Goddesses associated with Spirit and Light? In essence, if you want four goddesses to correspond to the elements in the Four Sword, why not six goddesses to correspond to the spiritual medallions?

What I really think is that if you want to construct some solid connections, you should remove the aspect of the goddess and focus on the connection between shadow and earth. I think you bring up some good points about their connections, and we should do more work with them. Remember also that the portal to the dark world in ALTTP greatly resembles the symbol on the Shadow Medallion. Rather than trying to deduce the existence of another goddess, I would focus on this question: "Why do shadow and earth seem to be so closely related?" If the answer to that question involves another goddess, then that would be great; but, I would suggest exploring other ideas. I think there are probably interesting things to say from a thematic perspective rather than a canonical perspective.

I'm going to tack one last thought on here: I don't think the existence of monsters can easily be explained, and I definitely don't think that the existence of another god is required to explain them. I think it is well enough to just say that evil exists. That evil definitely concentrates around Demise, but "Demons" seem be much different from the goddesses, so I would not call him a god. I don't think we want to believe that Din, Nayru, Farore, created monsters because we want to think of them as benevolent beings; but, maybe they aren't. Just as the Triforce does not judge between good and evil, perhaps the creator Goddesses also do not. This issue really goes back to the same issues that have plagued religions in our world (where does evil come from, how did god gain existence, why does anything exist at all, etc.) So, again, I think that trying to find a source for evil will lead to making lots of connections that may not actually exist (a practice that people pursue on a daily basis in our own world).

 

[zenda]

one thing to consider is that in skyward sword they show demise breaking through a crack in the earth it may be that shadow and earth are connected because the evil originated from the earth.

 

[Ocarina_Player]

Well we know there is an evil goddess that the Gerudo worship, you see her in the Spirit Temple. But not much is really known about her. I wish the creators would touch upon her again.

 

[kiboeme]

I believe that there is a fourth goddess, and there was originally intended to be a fourth piece of the Triforce.
Why do I believe this?

1- Numbers
There are four Links in Four Swords, and a lot of "bad" things come in threes and their multiples (3 strikes on a boss, 3-6 temples, etc.). Additionally, there were four silent realms in SS, four providences in TP, and so on. There are also four main races in Hyrule in most games.

2 - Symbols
The upside-down triangle or upside-down Triforce appears in the games almost as frequently as the symbol of the Triforce itself: OoT Link's Shield, the symbol on the Shadow Medallion, etc. Additionally, Tetra's necklace and the markings on the back of Midna's hands.

3 - History
Now, it's already been mentioned that numbers and symbols don't create enough of a basis to theorize that there's another piece of the Triforce, so I'll explain the remainder of my evidence more through a story explaining why there isn't actually a fourth piece of the Triforce, what happened to it/Hylia, and why folks remember Din, Faore, and Nayru, but not Hylia.

We know that in the beginning, the three known goddesses created the world. Din the earth, Nayru the law, Faore the life, and Hylia the spirit of Hyrule. Being that each goddess gave the land something representative of their personalities, Hylia's personality was very loving and affectionate. She became attached to the world they had created, and when the other three goddesses departed for the heavens and left their pieces of the Triforce behind to protect their sister (most likely from the dark powers of Demise or another demon god), Hylia remained behind on the earth. Then Demise rose to attack the more vulnerable goddess and her people, so Hylia used all of her power--the power that she would have used to create the centerpiece of the Triforce --to save her chosen race. Weak and dying, she retreated into a Silent Realm to heal before placing her spirit in the heart of a mortal. As this mortal, she finally was able to place the power of her Triforce into a corporeal object: The Master Sword. In Skyward Sword, after Link has already acquired all of the Sacred Flames and the Master Sword is said to have "attained it's final form", Zelda blesses it once more and it attains its "ultimate form". This is Hylia putting the power of her Triforce into the sword.

After SS but before MC, Hyrule was settled. However, there were those who were resentful of being forgotten by the goddess. The Sheikah people had fought and given most of their lives to protecting the goddess and her plans, but after Zelda died they had been utterly forgotten. A small group of Sheikah used the remnants of Ghirahim and Demise's magic scattered throughout the land to construct powerful magical artifacts designed to rival the Triforce. They came to be known as the Fused Shadows. As the Interlopers rained terror on those who had forgotten them, they heard of a Sacred Realm left open to the world. The goddess statue brought down from Skyloft still presumably held the Triforce, and it is most likely that the Temple of Time designed to hide and protect the Sacred Realm wasn't built yet. The Interlopers pursued it. According to Hylia's plans, a princess containing her Spirit and a boy containing the Hero's Spirit were born to stop the Interlopers, but they made their coup before the princess of the Hero were ready. The other goddesses had to intervene, and they banished the Interlopers to the same place they'd imprisoned Demise: the Twilight Realm. Hylia/Zelda, however, tried to defend them and keep them in Hyrule. Already afraid of their sister being corrupted by her repeated interaction with Demise, the other goddesses tossed Hylia and her power in the Master Sword into the Twilight.

Hence the heavily reduced power of the Four Sword in MC and FS, as well as the increasing power of the Master Sword in OoT and TP when the Twilight was connecting with Hyrule once again. Also explains the repeated appearance of purple and a fourth sacred statue/carving/symbol in various games (the statues with the mashed faces in WW, anyone?).

At any rate, that's my headcanon for the Tetraforce. It actually ends up explaining a lot of confusing things about the Zelda-verse, such as why the Master Sword isn't always mega-powerful, why Link has to go through ridiculous "spirit-building" trials to possess the entire Triforce, or why the Triforce splits apart all the time.

----

Now, to clear up some other stuff mentioned in this thread:

"The Fire, Water, and Forest medallions probably correspond to Din, Nayru, and Farore, but if the goddesses are supposed to be represented in each aspect of the Four Sword, is Forest really closer to wind than earth?"
Actually, the Forest Temple (and the Forest Medallion) in OoT were originally intended to be the Wind Temple and Wind Medallion. That's why there are swirls on it instead of leaves or sticks or something more relevant to the forest.

I've seen people say Majora is a goddess...we can say that's the evil goddess right there. Since you brought up Ikana Canyon and Stone Tower Temple, which is in MM. So...do you think this evil goddess is Majora?
There are 2 answers to this one, depending on what you believe about Majora's Mask. Either way, Majora is Ganondorf's parallel in Termina, just like nearly every other character from OoT has a parallel.
1- If Link is dead, Majora basically just equals Ganondorf or Ganondorf's magical power. Therefore, Majora is more-or-less a god, but a god that is completely a figment of Link's imagination.
2- If Termina is real, then we can assume that Majora is just the same case as Vaati or Aganahim: another power-hungry dude who was corrupted by the same force as Ganondorf, yanked into Demise's cycle.
Majora's obviously more powerful than the other villains of the series, so he could be a different entity altogether, on the same level as Ghirahim or even Demise. However, I'm willing to bet he was just a powerful sorcerer who got out of hand.

 

[Jirohnagi]

I feel i have to point out, Ikana is shown to be in essence a dead man's land. A place of no hope, a realm of suffering and nightmare of tortured souls. It is also well known that kings who once believed in gods tend to rebel and do everything in their power to slur their name. In Ikana's case they built a tower to the heavens but thanks to a blood red gem it instead became a gateway to hell where in the eternal desert of damnation they found a new creature to worship as evidenced by the statue of the mask at the start of the temple.

The fourth triangle theory is going to be argued back and fourth like a game of badminton.

Their is no proof of an "evil goddess" in any way the Sand Goddess whom the gerudo worship isn't shown to be evil. The Arbiter's ground is a place of justice where the damned are sent. The gerudo of the time might have ended up as the inmates or heck even the guards of the prison no one knows.

Termina is in fact real if you are silly enough to think link died then shoo. He didn't die or how else did his shade end up learning moves that link didn't at the time of Termina. Termina has been stated it is a Alternate reality, a parallel dimension.

Demise is Hylia's counterpart, he fought her for the possession of the triforce, Hylia is it's guardian. Demise threw off the shackles of the gods and sought their power for his own to become a god. However he isn't a god he is just as strong as Hylia.

Evil was created as part of the realm. It exists all on it's own. The goddess' used this to their advantage creating perilous trials so that the Hero would be forged through the fires of each "Test". As shown in SS each Temple with a spirit flame had a monster guarding it. But more importantly you couldn't activate the plinth for the flame until that creature was defeated in combat, thus proofing you were worthy of claiming that flame and improving the blade, which acts as the key to the triforce.

 

[kiboeme]

Demise is Hylia's counterpart, he fought her for the possession of the triforce, Hylia is it's guardian. Demise threw off the shackles of the gods and sought their power for his own to become a god. However he isn't a god he is just as strong as Hylia.

Evil was created as part of the realm. It exists all on it's own. The goddess' used this to their advantage creating perilous trials so that the Hero would be forged through the fires of each "Test". As shown in SS each Temple with a spirit flame had a monster guarding it. But more importantly you couldn't activate the plinth for the flame until that creature was defeated in combat, thus proofing you were worthy of claiming that flame and improving the blade, which acts as the key to the triforce.

Whether or not Hylia is a fourth creator goddess, she and Demise are not on the same level. Demise is referred to as the "Demon King", but he is never referred to as a god. Hylia, on the other hand, is clearly a divine being. The only way to claim that Demise is equally as powerful as Hylia is to suggest that they went toe-to-toe before the events of SS and Hylia lost, which is far from the case. Hylia is depicted almost all the time as being a defender and a behind-the-scenes leader of the battles, lending her strength to her subjects through the form of swords and other magical weapons. Therefore, Demise's forces were stronger than Hylia's, leading to the separation of Skyloft and the sealing of The Imprisoned.

As for the trials, you are a solute my right. The goddesses used the Silent Realms trials to make sure that anyone who would use the power of the Master Sword would be worthy of it. However, after the Master Sword has reached its "final form" when imbued with all 3 sacred flames, Zelda blesses it and it attains its "ultimate form". Zelda/Hylia supplemented the power within the Master Sword to make it ultimately powerful, and I think this blessing was the addition of the power of the fourth Triforce piece.

 

[Jirohnagi]

1) I never said Hylia was a fourth goddess.
The Power Hylia has was almost certainly given to her by the goddess' themselves. It is referred to as the "Light Force" I believe by vaati (been awhile since i play MC)
2) Demise is obviously shown to be equal in power to hylia by the expedient that he fought her to a standstill and she was forced to send the triforce and the remnants of humanity into the sky until such a time as he could be slain. Yes i know you raised the point of minions and weapons. But the point is demise was winning that was and so she sent skyloft into the sky. There is no proof other than the master sword that zelda/hylia has ever blessed any other weapon.

Sorry but as of yet no one as provided viable proof of a legitimate Fourth Goddess. Hell even Nintendo has stated it isn't canon and removed that fourth triangle to prevent this going on.

 

[Aewon]

If Hylia is the Goddess of Time she's far more powerful than Din, Nayru and Farore. That would make Her THE creator. Her sacrificing her divine powers and becoming mortal shouldn't be viewed as evidence that she's a minor god. Besides, there's no evidence that the Hylians have "major" and "minor" gods. Yes, there are other gods, and powerful spirits. But, there's no evidence whatsoever that the Hylians of Hyrule worship those other gods. Furthermore, their entire culture is named after Her. Of course, there's always the chance that she's not the Goddess of Time at all, but for now she's the only credible candidate. Besides, She does become Zelda, after all, and she becomes the Sage of Time in a later life. Not to mention the entire series is named after her.

 

[kiboeme]

If Hylia is the Goddess of Time she's far more powerful than Din, Nayru and Farore.

1. Not necessarily
2. I don't think that Hylia is the goddess of time. Everybody seems to forget that time is consistently associated with Nayru—Timeshift Stones are located in Lanayru providence, Timeshift Stones and the Ocarina of Time are blue, Nayru is the Oracle of Ages... The three creator goddesses most likely go by different names depending upon how elegant you want to sound. Hylia goes by "Hylia", "Her Grace", or just "the goddess". Hylia nor Zelda is ever depicted in controlling time in any way—she gives you the ocarina in OoT and becomes the Sage of Time, but that's it. Additionally, even if Zelda is tied to time, she is more connected to Nayru than Hylia at that point because she bears Nayru's Triforce piece.

The reason I separate major and minor gods is because in Hyrule we have the three/four creator goddesses whom everybody seems to know about, but then we also see several other divine-ish beings that are only shown in one game or appear to have no significant impact or worship-group in Hyrule's lands. For example, the Sand Goddess (who could also be Din) from OoT and the Ocean King from PH. Both obviously more than mortal and more than mere spirits —ike the Light Spirits of TP—but also clearly not as powerful nor as important as the creator goddesses. In fact, these lesser deities even seem to serve the creator goddesses on some level.

 

[hwrdjacob]

It's pretty impossible if you consider it that Light Force= Hylia's blood. It's said not to come from Hylia, but instead the Minish, and was given to "The Hero of Men" after Hyrule was founded, as evidenced by man's ground based nature at the time. Some even theorize that it and the Picori Blade are Minish Versions of the Triforce and Master Sword, given the similarities between Triforce/Light Force and Picori Blade/Master Sword.

Onto the Sages, I don't think the Seventh Sage even HAS an associated element. This is evidenced by there only being the Symbols of Light, Forest, Fire, Water, Spirit, and Shadow on the Sage's insignia. They do however, surround something: the Triforce. The depiction of the Triforce in this case may refer to the Seventh Sage, as He/She is the leader. I think Sage #7 is either of Wisdom, the Triforce, or, what I stand by, just that: The oversage. Just the leader: no fancy element for Him/Her. But the notion that it is "The Sage of Time" is in particular very groundless but also sadly common. Zelda had more to do with WISDOM than Time: all she did was send Link back, an ability implied to belong to the Ocarina itself and not Zelda.

And onto lesser deities, while most do seem to serve the Gods, Vaati, the God of Wind, is in fact a villain if you recall, and Ganon is implied to at least be worshiped as one in FSA. Hell, he might even qualify in ALttP onward: if the Triforce can grant ANY wish, does that include a free ticket to godhood? I'd assume.