Team Fortress 2: Mann vs. Machine
- Thread starter DekuNut
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Mellow Ezlo
Spoony Bard
Dude there was enough of this bull**** in the other game. Actually contribute useful things or get out of the ****ing game. I do not want to have this game ruined by your ****posting. Please, for everybody's sake and your own, play the damn game or just quit. I'm tired of this.
kokirion
Just like you. But cooler
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2010
- Location
- Wherever history is in the making
My thoughts on the matter.
Of course, claiming doctor was stupid for both of them. It are suicidal moves. But the best we can do now is try to use the situation to the fullest.
Whining doesn't help and tbh, it's a super rare phenomena to have 2 doctors claiming on day 1. In that sense, it's also an interesting case.
The current situation basically gives us 2 things. The first is information. Not that much actually, and not to brag, but I had already come to all those conclusions in my notes when I received my role pm. And if I really thought it was a good thing to share that with everyone, I would've done so already. Nonetheless, these claims support some of my hypotheses. Can't say that has no value.
Secondly, assuming that both claims are genuine, and so that we really do have 2 docs, if they would hypothetically cure each other every night we'd have 2 publicly known immortal masons. 2 known townies that the mafia cannot kill... isn't that a huge blow to them as well?
Now, if they only cure each other, we also have the disadvantage that the mafia can kill whomever they want to. We cannot prevent that, but we do can lessen this blow. That's why I propose the following: Why don't we ask Malon and Storm every night to go to random.org, and randomize a 0 and a 1. If it is 1 they cure the other, if it is 0 they cure someone else. (so if Malon gets a 1 he cures Storm, in case of a 0 he could protect someone else he wants to). This way, there would still be a 50% chance for both of them that they can still cure others, with a high chance that they themselves too are protected. For the mafia etc. we would raise the bar to target them, because the odds are 50/50 that such a kill fails, yet we do not give them the chance to freely target anyone who isn't them.
Once more, I would highly prefer a situation where no one claimed doctor. BUT, since this already happened, I think this is a nice strategy for us to deal with it. We raise their chances of survival, having also 2 "confirmed" townies, and do one average still have 1 doctor left to protect the rest of us.
Of course, it's not certain that they are both truthful, but that doesn't matter. If one is lying and secretly a townie, it's no difference (the mafia won't know that either, so they might also believe just like all of us that the real doctor has a 50% chance of being protected. If that was known to be false, we might lose our doctor earlier actually). If one is lying and secretly mafia, they will probably kill the other the first night. But we cannot prevent that anyway, so no difference there either. And yes, then the protection of the doctor that does is really a doctor might go to the mafia, but with the system I proposed above the chances of this happening are only 50%. Still better than 100%.
What do you guys think of this proposal? Or does anyone want to add something to it/propose something different?
Of course, claiming doctor was stupid for both of them. It are suicidal moves. But the best we can do now is try to use the situation to the fullest.
Whining doesn't help and tbh, it's a super rare phenomena to have 2 doctors claiming on day 1. In that sense, it's also an interesting case.
The current situation basically gives us 2 things. The first is information. Not that much actually, and not to brag, but I had already come to all those conclusions in my notes when I received my role pm. And if I really thought it was a good thing to share that with everyone, I would've done so already. Nonetheless, these claims support some of my hypotheses. Can't say that has no value.
Secondly, assuming that both claims are genuine, and so that we really do have 2 docs, if they would hypothetically cure each other every night we'd have 2 publicly known immortal masons. 2 known townies that the mafia cannot kill... isn't that a huge blow to them as well?
Now, if they only cure each other, we also have the disadvantage that the mafia can kill whomever they want to. We cannot prevent that, but we do can lessen this blow. That's why I propose the following: Why don't we ask Malon and Storm every night to go to random.org, and randomize a 0 and a 1. If it is 1 they cure the other, if it is 0 they cure someone else. (so if Malon gets a 1 he cures Storm, in case of a 0 he could protect someone else he wants to). This way, there would still be a 50% chance for both of them that they can still cure others, with a high chance that they themselves too are protected. For the mafia etc. we would raise the bar to target them, because the odds are 50/50 that such a kill fails, yet we do not give them the chance to freely target anyone who isn't them.
Once more, I would highly prefer a situation where no one claimed doctor. BUT, since this already happened, I think this is a nice strategy for us to deal with it. We raise their chances of survival, having also 2 "confirmed" townies, and do one average still have 1 doctor left to protect the rest of us.
Of course, it's not certain that they are both truthful, but that doesn't matter. If one is lying and secretly a townie, it's no difference (the mafia won't know that either, so they might also believe just like all of us that the real doctor has a 50% chance of being protected. If that was known to be false, we might lose our doctor earlier actually). If one is lying and secretly mafia, they will probably kill the other the first night. But we cannot prevent that anyway, so no difference there either. And yes, then the protection of the doctor that does is really a doctor might go to the mafia, but with the system I proposed above the chances of this happening are only 50%. Still better than 100%.
What do you guys think of this proposal? Or does anyone want to add something to it/propose something different?
HeroOfTime
Challenger Approaching!
They aren't both the red doc. There are two docs, but red and blue. Thus at least one is lying if they both claimed red doc... I think that one of them is telling the truth though...
The teams are confusing me though, are the colored teams against each other, or working together?
Mellow Ezlo
Spoony Bard
Malon said that Storm claimed to be the exact same colour as him. I think the 2 different colours for a role theory holds water, but I can't see there being 2 roles of the same colour. Given this, one of them is most likely lying. Out of the two of them, I'd rather lynch Storm, for several reasons.
For one thing, Malon is the one that counterclaimed, which makes Storm the most likely candidate for lying. However, Malon could also be bluffing. The thing is, though, fake counterclaiming would be stupid because once Storm is proven to be telling the truth, it makes Malon look hella bad. So it makes the most sense that Storm is lying about his role. Going by ZU's tactic, they say "lynch all liars".
The problem is, though, that Storm did the same **** he's doing now in the other game and he flipped town. But that brings me to my other point: regardless of whether or not Storm is telling the truth, I want him out of the game. His behaviour does not benefit the town in any way and is in fact more of a hindrance. At this point, I don't care if Storm is town, he needs to go. This chaos needs to end. So because of all that's been said:
Vote: Storm
This is probably going to make me look suspicious, but truth be told, I don't care. I'm fed up and genuinely do not want to play with someone who's not going to play the game. Let's get this chaotic day over with and start anew in day 2.
For one thing, Malon is the one that counterclaimed, which makes Storm the most likely candidate for lying. However, Malon could also be bluffing. The thing is, though, fake counterclaiming would be stupid because once Storm is proven to be telling the truth, it makes Malon look hella bad. So it makes the most sense that Storm is lying about his role. Going by ZU's tactic, they say "lynch all liars".
The problem is, though, that Storm did the same **** he's doing now in the other game and he flipped town. But that brings me to my other point: regardless of whether or not Storm is telling the truth, I want him out of the game. His behaviour does not benefit the town in any way and is in fact more of a hindrance. At this point, I don't care if Storm is town, he needs to go. This chaos needs to end. So because of all that's been said:
Vote: Storm
This is probably going to make me look suspicious, but truth be told, I don't care. I'm fed up and genuinely do not want to play with someone who's not going to play the game. Let's get this chaotic day over with and start anew in day 2.
ectoBiologist
Still Fandom Trash
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2014
Yeah, that works for me. But in the case that Storm is scum and not another doctor, I would just be saving a mafia member. Guess it's kind of worth a shot, though.
I think unlike in TF they are working together. I think the colored teams constitute the town and are just there to give flavor and have multiples of the same role.
Well if you didn't act so scummy, maybe you wouldn't have to defend yourself.
Doc
BoDoc Horseman
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2012
- Gender
- Male
This is essentially where I'm at right now. I completely agree with the two color theory (although, didn't Deku say this in the SU. I could be mistaken). But Storm came forward claiming his color AND role, and Malon said it was the exact same role as him. I don't know if Malon is able clarify whether or not he is the Blue Medic instead, or he is the true Red Medic and Storm is scum. I suppose that saying which would be considered name claiming.
If we could get a LITTLE bit more information from Malon, who I believe to more likely be town than Storm, on this situation, that'd be great.
As was said countless times, those were RVS votes, made within the first few hours of the first day. They were not going to be the end of you. And don't make it out like everyone was out to get you from the start. Those were random votes made out of humor.
Also, remember this is just a game, Storm. You don't need to attack Tristan because he thinks that you might be a threat to the town.
Im not really acting scummy. Im just sitting here trying not to die, and basically being discriminated by veterans when THIS IS MY SECOND GAME EVER And im trying to get my personality in sync still, and killing me 2 minutes into day 1 wont help that. Neither will banishing me to hell where i belong, Tristan the Pious all powerful God-like being you are.
Mellow Ezlo
Spoony Bard
Pen
The game is on!
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2010
There are so many other ways of defensing yourself though. Word of advice for any potential future games you are in, no matter what role you have (especially Doctor), never take role claiming lightly. Only use it as your VERY last resort. You role claimed way too quickly this game, and it hurts both yourself and the faction you belong to. You had not even attempted defending yourself properly. Try giving that a shot if you ever find yourself in this situation again. As of right now though, I cannot help but find your premature role claiming both suspicious and somewhat annoying. I am sorry but my vote will stay where it is.
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2014
Yeah, I was saying that he claimed both my color AND role. I just didn't want to border on a nameclaim.
This is the second game here that I've actually played and I'm doing just fine. And yes, you are acting scummy. Intentional or not.
Doc
BoDoc Horseman
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2012
- Gender
- Male
Being new is not a defense. And you're not being discriminated against. There are other new players in this game, and the veterans are not voting for them. Why? Because they aren't acting scummy (Role claiming is always scummy, it suggests that your only source of evidence is faith that you're telling the truth).
Also, if your personal life is getting in the way of the game, maybe you shouldn't play mafia until you get your personality in sync. People are going to scrutinize and criticize you; not because they hate you but because they want to win. Don't take everything so personally.
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