Game Thread Square Enix Mafia

[Ragnarokio]

He couldn't have targeted Seanzie n1, since Raven got his item. Night 2 yours was stolen. N3 Neon claims to have jailed him, but he also claims to have not used any activated abilities n3 either. Mafia would likely claim a stolen item because there would be no downside to it, and it could make whoever took it look bad for not speaking up earlier.

I find it weird to have a 1x item thief that's town, because it doesn't really seem like items do anything? Other than maybe the fact that it would make Raven unsure who to target to get items if town is missing some, but I'm that case it would likely be more than 1x.

Or he could have targeted Seanzie n1 and his action failed because raven got the item. Mafia would likely not claim a stolen item because it gives information to the town and its better for them if the town has less information. It could also make the claim of whoever was responsible stronger, because they now have both me and the mafioso claiming they stole items, one of which was stolen on N2.

1x item thief doesn't make sense alone but it does as one component of a larger role (ie: they can do something with the item after they steal it).

 

[15377]

Then why do I've gotten items from all those people if I obviously haven't killed any of them? Also I can just target someone to proof that I don't have a killing ability. Despite, if I would have an actually hostile role I wouldn't have claimed at all, and especially not that early and to the extent that I did. I may suck at reading people, I may suck at building cases, but I'm certainly not that stupid. I would've just shut up until pushed to claim, I would have had more than enough time to make something up by then, something that is way safer than the stuff I've claimed. I can understand a certain distrust, but I get the impression that people don't actually invest time in analyzing what I do and how I do it but instead just go with the indep must be a threat agenda. Hell, even if I would just be going after my solo win con and not tell anyone about it's existence, why painting a target on my back over and over again, drawing attention towards me if I'm up to something fishy? I'm reaching out olive branches over and over again, yet people just spit in my face in return.

You misunderstand. I don't think you're SK lying about your role. I think you're convoluted AF SK variant, possibly without realizing it at first or at all because it's so steeped.

 

[Ragnarokio]

ultimately there are tons of reasons numbers could feasibly have been capable of stealing an item from me on N2 but didn't (to the town's knowledge) steal any item on N1 or N3. There's no real basis to say that he doesn't have the ability to steal items. The only basis to say that he does is that he's the only person who hasn't claimed or flipped in a game where i had an item stolen on a night only town could act. I think its a pretty strong basis.

 

[Morbid Minish]

Or he could have targeted Seanzie n1 and his action failed because raven got the item. Mafia would likely not claim a stolen item because it gives information to the town and its better for them if the town has less information. It could also make the claim of whoever was responsible stronger, because they now have both me and the mafioso claiming they stole items, one of which was stolen on N2.

1x item thief doesn't make sense alone but it does as one component of a larger role (ie: they can do something with the item after they steal it).

I would assume that if Numbers is an item thief and targeted Seanzie n1, his action would resolve before it being given to Raven. Since Raven's is passive.

ultimately there are tons of reasons numbers could feasibly have been capable of stealing an item from me on N2 but didn't (to the town's knowledge) steal any item on N1 or N3. There's no real basis to say that he doesn't have the ability to steal items. The only basis to say that he does is that he's the only person who hasn't claimed or flipped in a game where i had an item stolen on a night only town could act. I think its a pretty strong basis.

There would be no reason for him to have not claimed it though because it would have confirmed him.

Who's to say that he isn't scum with Neon, and you targeting Neon n2 passively caused her to get your item?

 

[Ragnarokio]

I would assume that if Numbers is an item thief and targeted Seanzie n1, his action would resolve before it being given to Raven. Since Raven's is passive.

I would assume that if Numbers is an item thief and target Seanzie n1, his action would resolve after it being given to Raven. Since Raven's is passive.

 

[Ragnarokio]

There would be no reason for him to have not claimed it though because it would have confirmed him.

Who's to say that he isn't scum with Neon, and you targeting Neon n2 passively caused her to get your item?

maybe if he claims he gets modkilled. There are lots of feasible reasons he could have for not wanting to claim.

Its possible that he is scum with neon and that neon stole my item. I want to lynch neon today anyways though, so it doesn't change the optimal play.

 

[Morbid Minish]

I would assume that if Numbers is an item thief and target Seanzie n1, his action would resolve after it being given to Raven. Since Raven's is passive.

I don't know why a passive would resolve before an active in that case. Active seems like it would take priority since he actually chose to target Seanzie vs Seanzie just dying so Raven gets his item.

maybe if he claims he gets modkilled. There are lots of feasible reasons he could have for not wanting to claim.

Its possible that he is scum with neon and that neon stole my item. I want to lynch neon today anyways though, so it doesn't change the optimal play.

I also just realized that Ex made some vague comment about him being virtually town n2 because of your role. Which hasn't made sense to me. But if he could steal items, maybe he stole two n2 and was hoping someone else would clear him but they didn't.

 

[Morbid Minish]

Also meant to say that Numbers could just claim that he can't claim rather than saying he won't.

 

[Ragnarokio]

I don't know why a passive would resolve before an active in that case. Active seems like it would take priority since he actually chose to target Seanzie vs Seanzie just dying so Raven gets his item.

Wouldn't it make more sense for the passive to take priority since they don't choose a target?

also just realized that Ex made some vague comment about him being virtually town n2 because of your role. Which hasn't made sense to me. But if he could steal items, maybe he stole two n2 and was hoping someone else would clear him but they didn't.

could you post a link to the comment?

Also meant to say that Numbers could just claim that he can't claim rather than saying he won't.

maybe he gets modkilled if he claims that he can't claim

 

[Morbid Minish]

Wouldn't it make more sense for the passive to take priority since they don't choose a target?

I wouldn't make sense to me. He doesn't choose a target there, so if someone targets that person first they should get the item. And then Raven gets nothing from the flip. Since he can also target people to get items and be on the lynch wagon early enough. I would think an item thief would most likely be a counter to Raven so they should resolve first.

could you post a link to the comment?

Yeah lemme find it.

maybe he gets modkilled if he claims that he can't claim

Mikey claimed he couldn't claim stuff, so seems unlikely.

 

[Morbid Minish]

Oh wait, I misremembered exactly what he said. He said one mafia kill, which wouldn't matter anyways according to you and I dunno if the motivator shot even works the same night?

pretty sure single mafia kill despite rag targeting me N1 should de a decent indicator of me being town

 

[Ragnarokio]

I wouldn't make sense to me. He doesn't choose a target there, so if someone targets that person first they should get the item. And then Raven gets nothing from the flip. Since he can also target people to get items and be on the lynch wagon early enough. I would think an item thief would most likely be a counter to Raven so they should resolve first.

What you're proposing doesn't make sense to me. Its because he didn't choose a target that he should get the item first, over someone who did choose a target. Ultimately the host is the one who decides what order conflicting abilities resolve in, and so their opinion on what makes sense is what matters though, and not either of ours, and I don't really have any inkling of whether MCH or deku would favor your interpretation or mine.

Mikey claimed he couldn't claim stuff, so seems unlikely.

how'd that work out for him?

 

[Morbid Minish]

What you're proposing doesn't make sense to me. Its because he didn't choose a target that he should get the item first, over someone who did choose a target. Ultimately the host is the one who decides what order conflicting abilities resolve in, and so their opinion on what makes sense is what matters though, and not either of ours, and I don't really have any inkling of whether MCH or deku would favor your interpretation or mine.

I just don't see why someone who didn't do something should get it over someone who actively did something.
But it is up to the hosts and there are a lot of things that I don't know how they would resolve in this game.

how'd that work out for him?

He didn't get modkilled for claiming he couldn't claim. He got modkilled, presumably for giving too much info.

 

[15377]

He didn't get modkilled for claiming he couldn't claim. He got modkilled, presumably for giving too much info.

The official word was breaking the rules of his role, quoted below. Which would cover what Rag is saying as well as putting out too much information so you can't say either way which it was without knowing the specifics of his role. The only way you'd know that is if a'lana tagged Mikey earlier in the game and you knew through scum chat.

well uh, turns out mikey broke the rules of his role, so sorry mikey but you're getting modkilled

they were the space invader, the town spy/miller

 

[Morbid Minish]

The official word was breaking the rules of his role, quoted below. Which would cover what Rag is saying as well as putting out too much information so you can't say either way which it was without knowing the specifics of his role. The only way you'd know that is if a'lana tagged Mikey earlier in the game and you knew through scum chat.

I can't claim my upside apparently

He mentioned he couldn't claim his upside. So he presumably asked if he could. Unless the mods just noticed that super late (which I doubt seeing as there was a lot of talk revolving around Mikey) then that's not what he was modkilled for.