Screw Attack's Top Ten something something

[AncientPoe]

I feel like at least half these suggestions are utter ****, and the other half are just meh. But who knows, maybe other people will see things differently.

 

[Deleted member 14134]

Ill run through what I think of each point in order.

10. "No gimmicks" Definitely. They hit the nail on the head for this one. Whether it's motion controls in SS or waving around your ipad in star fox Nintendo always seems to try to force some stupid gimmick in their games and consoles. Having a normal game would be nice for once.

9. "No backtracking" Definitely, I hated running through the same, slightly different, half assed areas in skyward sword.

8. "Randomly Generated Dungeons" Would get old fast

7. "Fast Travel" Definitely, and it has to be convenient this time (Just a fast selection, no playing a song, no turning into a wolf).

6. "More character customization" Why not?

5. "Zelda to grow up" I've been saying this for years, it's still trying to be cute and colorful and directed at kids. Zelda has next to no story besides its generic good vs evil, save he princess cliches. Characters are mostly one dimensional, predictable and boring. Twilight princess took steps in this direction and as a result we saw a deeper world and some better characters (midna etc). I don't want it to be rated mature but I do want the game to move on from being directed at children.

4. "No sidekicks" Agreed, Fi in SS was literally a hand holding robot who laid out what was already obvious. Zelda has become too easy already without Nintendo giving us annoying, useless hints along the way. If there's a sidekick make it more of a character like Midna and less of a useless pointer like Fi.

3. "New villain" This only works if the story isn't generic like I mentioned above. I want a character as a villian, one I can hate, or sympathize with.

2. "Huge Bosses" Why not, if it works.

1. "Different Endings" Why not, it would give the player more control and add depth to the story rather than following down a linear path. If Zelda wants to evolve so badly this might not be a bad decision instead of more gimmicky garbage that is bound to happen in a poor attempt to be unique.

Overall I think they made some very good points and agree with almost everything they said. Which ones do you disagree with? What would you have changed if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Deleted member 81859]

Randomly generated anything is an awful idea. If you want that, play Isaac.
Anyway, Zelda needs to wipe the cuteness off its tunic. TP treated its world, story, and characters with dignity and respect. It felt like there was a lot at stake, the risks in the story were great. You were driven on by those you wished to protect. Zelda has become a quirky set of tales about a boy in green. I want it to go back to telling legends. The multiple endings idea could be intresting if done correctly. Your ending could be based off of how much of the world you explored and how many sidequests you did, as said sidequests allow you to become attached to characters and learn more about them. I would love another Midna-like protagonist or Midna herself lol. As for villains, Nintendo has been on a recent trend of creating very flamboyant Zelda villains and it is annoying the **** out of me. Last time we saw Gannondorf was TP, and it's high time he makes a come back. I know Zelda U supposedly has a new villian, but I want a dark and sinister villian. Someone I genuinely fear and hate. They hit mostly every thing on the head.

Except for customizable Link.
He's perfect just the way he is.

 

[Deleted member 14134]

Randomly generated anything is a n awful idea. If you want that, play Isaac.
Anyway, Zelda needs to wipe the cuteness off it's tunic. TP treated its world, story, and characters with dignity and respect. It felt like there was a lot at stake, the risks in the story were great. You were driven on by those you wished to protect. Zelda has become a quirky set of legends about a boy in green. I want it to go back to telling legends. The multiple endings idea could be intresting if done correctly. Your ending could be based off of how much of the world you explored and how many sidequests you did, as said sidequests allow you to become attached to characters and learn more about them. I would love another Midna-like protagonist or Midna herself lol. As for villains, Nintendo has been on a recent trend of creating very flamboyant Zelda villains and it is annoying the **** out of me. Last time we saw Gannondorf was TP, and it's high time he makes a come back. I know Zelda U supposedly has a new villian, but I want a dark and sinister villian. Someone I genuinely fear and hate. They hit mostly every thing on the head.

Except for customizable Link.
He's perfect just the way he is.

I agree with most of what you said, Zelda has two types of villains. Type 1 is evil villain who is evil for the sake of being evil and flamboyant ****s (because we need a villain with "character" instead of a generic one ho ha."

As for the customization, vanity items could be used as it wouldn't affect gameplay players to customize Link if they choose to do so. If there were benefits to wearing equipment then perhaps there could be an option to not change Links appearance, allowing players to reap the benefits of the equipment while still looking like the classic green boy of destiny. My point is there's ways of doing it that wouldn't hurt those who don't want Link to look different while not robbing those who want those options available.

 

[Deleted member 81859]

As for the customization, vanity items could be used as it wouldn't affect gameplay players to customize Link if they choose to do so. If there were benefits to wearing equipment then perhaps there could be an option to not change Links appearance, allowing players to reap the benefits of the equipment while still looking like the classic green boy of destiny. My point is there's ways of doing it that wouldn't hurt those who don't want Link to look different while not robbing those who want those options available.

My problem with customization is that if we have the ability to change Link's appearance, then he would no longer be Link. No customization or female incarnations, as they are not Link himself. He is pivotal to this entire franchise and for the life of me I cannot understand why you would ever want to play as someone else. You play as Link in LOZ. Its what you do. And yeah, no more flamboyants ruining my evil parade.

 

[Jirohnagi]

10. "No gimmicks" Gimmicks tend to be LOZ's thing Every game has it's own unique gimmick that doesn't show up else where, Bar that whole triforce breaking up thing that showed up twice, but we literally span the range of gimmicky crap from magical musical items to barely useful sidekicks and random items that don't have any relevance after one dungeon.

9. "No backtracking" This you could lump in with Fast Travel and Gimmicks, as we saw in SS and ST you were forced to backtrack either through your own choice for side quests or for the story that was it's gimmick, Backtracking no matter how small is a part of many games.

8. "Randomly Generated Dungeons" God no, people have enough issues trying to find their way around dungeons (SS was the worst. LOOKING AT YOU SANDSHIP), we don't need an endlessly re-genned dungeon, that would defeat the point of maps and compasses not to mention dungeon completion.

7. "Fast Travel" Rather stupid the Zelda games are made with the idea that you will travel the world that is you damned job and they generally make the world look good (bar SS stupid cloudyness) they want you to roam the world, yea they gave us SOME means of fast travel but as some will argue being able to drop in the world anywhere via bird isn't fast travel but then in OOT Epona and the Songs was fast travel, Deal with it.

6. "More character customization" No just No.

5. "Zelda to grow up" TP did that quite well as did MM you didn't think those games were aimed at children as you played they both literally dealt with death and several other issues, aside from the kidnapping bokoblins.

4. "No sidekicks" This would be handy, but people new to the series would gripe about no assistance. To be honest skyrim did it right, give us an immortal slave that's just inventory.

3. "New villain" Would only work if it was a GOOD villain, we had Bellum who was a good viilain but it relied on that stupid eye motif way to much so it went from good to sub-par.

2. "Huge Bosses" We saw Huge Bosses in TP and hell MM, in this case Huge is many time larger than link, and some of them are good but most were terrible, either in design or aesthetically.

1. "Different Endings" HAH, we saw the issue with that from the OOT Timesplit, people were and likely are still *****ing about the link lost timeline.

 

[Soul]

They nailed it with Point Four, except that I'm not saying I don't want any companion at all. But if they give us one, I want their help to be optional in a non intrusive manner. ALBW showed that it's possible to give players help without force feeding it to them with the Hint Ghost system.

 

[SinkingBadges]

The ones I'm ok with no questions are the parts about no gimmicks, companions and fast travel, but those are pretty obvious and have been said better before. I don’t think I’d mind character customization but I don’t think it’s necessary either. I’d be ok with a new villain since I already felt Ganon/dorf had run his course around TP, but people like him so I don’t feel like there’s much point in complaining there. I guess the other villains they’ve come up with aren’t particularly better either.


I feel tempted to agree with the backtracking part to some extent, although it's weird he doesn't qualify that much. What I'd say is that hiding stuff in areas you're not necessarily able to get to until later does help stress the exploration aspect. I imagine it's specifically about when it's forced that he's complaining about, in which case it can be a mixed bag; I think this kind of thing is done to make the most out of assets like maps and models, which is ok as long as the game doesn't feel like they just couldn’t make enough areas. It's telling that the footage on that part is SS, which is a pretty good example of that if you ask me.


Procedural generation could be a solution to a problem I have with the basic format the 3D dungeons tend to follow: due to how the puzzles are made, there is usually only one very specific solution with a very specific outcome to most non-combat sections, which means there is no variation on how these play out if you ever decide to replay the game. This might make the dungeons look cool the first time you play through them, but also means subsequent times when you've long since figured out that very specific solution will be busywork. However, I'd much rather they just build the puzzles with some degree of variation or put something else that has it in their absence if they can't. Procedural generation can be a nice way to keep the challenge alive since the player can't be 100% sure how to prepare for any given situation, but I'd argue it works better when your game has some sort of depth at its core. I'd much rather have Zelda focus on the depth.


Lastly, I don't get what "grow up" is supposed to mean. If you want a Zelda that strays from conventional plot trappings, you have MM; if you want one that is literally about growing up, you have OoT or WW; if you want one that just tries to be edgier, you have TP. That's without even touching on the 2D ones, which are no slouches there either. I'm not sure if I agree or disagree with this part because it's too wishy-washy, but then again, it's a top 10. If it is about having more complex stories I… guess I wouldn’t mind it? I don’t think the stories themselves were ever really big motivations for me to finish a Zelda, I mean I’d probably enjoy them less if it wasn’t because the games they are part of are still pretty fun at worst.

 

[Jirohnagi]

The ones I'm ok with no questions are the parts about no gimmicks, companions and fast travel, but those are pretty obvious and have been said better before. I don’t think I’d mind character customization but I don’t think it’s necessary either. I’d be ok with a new villain since I already felt Ganon/dorf had run his course around TP, but people like him so I don’t feel like there’s much point in complaining there. I guess the other villains they’ve come up with aren’t particularly better either.


I feel tempted to agree with the backtracking part to some extent, although it's weird he doesn't qualify that much. What I'd say is that hiding stuff in areas you're not necessarily able to get to until later does help stress the exploration aspect. I imagine it's specifically about when it's forced that he's complaining about, in which case it can be a mixed bag; I think this kind of thing is done to make the most out of assets like maps and models, which is ok as long as the game doesn't feel like they just couldn’t make enough areas. It's telling that the footage on that part is SS, which is a pretty good example of that if you ask me.


Procedural generation could be a solution to a problem I have with the basic format the 3D dungeons tend to follow: due to how the puzzles are made, there is usually only one very specific solution with a very specific outcome to most non-combat sections, which means there is no variation on how these play out if you ever decide to replay the game. This might make the dungeons look cool the first time you play through them, but also means subsequent times when you've long since figured out that very specific solution will be busywork. However, I'd much rather they just build the puzzles with some degree of variation or put something else that has it in their absence if they can't. Procedural generation can be a nice way to keep the challenge alive since the player can't be 100% sure how to prepare for any given situation, but I'd argue it works better when your game has some sort of depth at its core. I'd much rather have Zelda focus on the depth.


Lastly, I don't get what "grow up" is supposed to mean. If you want a Zelda that strays from conventional plot trappings, you have MM; if you want one that is literally about growing up, you have OoT or WW; if you want one that just tries to be edgier, you have TP. That's without even touching on the 2D ones, which are no slouches there either. I'm not sure if I agree or disagree with this part because it's too wishy-washy, but then again, it's a top 10. If it is about having more complex stories I… guess I wouldn’t mind it? I don’t think the stories themselves were ever really big motivations for me to finish a Zelda, I mean I’d probably enjoy them less if it wasn’t because the games they are part of are still pretty fun at worst.

How is TP being "Edgy"?

 

[Terminus]

@ the customization suggestions: Treat it like MGSV. Canonically, you're playing as Big Boss but it still allows you to customize your character. Bam, no more issues with canon.


Also, Big Boss is more of a "character" than Link is by far.

 

[SinkingBadges]

@Shironagi
It isn’t “edgy” per se if you take the word to mean that the game is full on grim, although I’m pretty sure it does go some of the way towards that. There’s children getting kidnapped, there’s villagers fearing attacks, along with a lot of clear attempts to make the game as a whole look threatening in both its general look and in some of the things that happen in the story. You could argue the first two things are realistic and fit into the story anyway, but I don’t think it fully commits to being dark when we get to the third one. The thing I’m thinking about the most is probably the Lanayru cutscene, which honestly jarrs pretty hard against the tone of the game and feels to me like it was done only for shock. TP for the most part is either that or just like the previous games except with more muted colors.

If you feel my mention or my use of the word was out of place, then I probably should have picked my wording more carefully. Edgy was just what seemed more appropriate to me when writing that post since I took it to mean “mature but not quite”. I hope my point is clear anyway though.

 

[the8thark]

My opinions on them all

1. No gimmicks - I disagree
   The gimmicks are what make each Zelda game. Sure the Wiimote controls just failed at certain points in SS and the stamina meter was totally not fun to have, both made SS what is is. I am interested to see what ideas Zelda U uses ot make it unique.
   
   
2. No backtracking - I disagree
   Well I semi-disagree. A little backtracking that makes sense is good. But major pointless backtracking like in SS was totally pointless.
   
   
3. Randomly Generated Dungeons - I agree
   But I would have it in the singular. One single randomly generated dungeon that you could re do over and over for a nice reward each time. That would be fun. It would not be a story dungeon, jsut a side one.
   
   
4. Fast Travel - I agree
   All Zelda games have this eventually. I see Zelda U being no different.
   
   
5. More character customisation - I disagree
   This is a tough one. We can't say more character customisation as LoZ has never had any character customisation at all. If Zelda U had some, it would be nice. If not I would not care. For me either way I am not bothered.
   
   
6. Zelda to grow up - I agree
   I say I agree but this has to be done very carefully. Majora's Mask was very adult in it's themes and sales suffered as a result. The 3DS one sold well cause decades later people understood it more. If you innovate too much in a Zelda game the sales drop. I do not see this happening in Zelda U though. The videos we have seen from the development process of Zelda U show us a open world cartoonish Link. Nintendo is unwilling to do a 2nd game like TP any time soon. Visually Zelda U looks the most like SS. Zelda NX (the one after Zelda U) could really embrace this more mature Zelda concept well and the NX will have the grunt to pull it off.
   This is a case of wait till the game after Zelda U and hope this happens.
   
   
7. No sidekicks - I agree
   Zelda NES (both games) and Zelda SNES had no sidekicks and they worked well. OOT/MM/TP/SS all had BS sidekicks that would never shut the **** up. The MC sidekick was cool though. For an open world Zelda, hunting and searching for things youself is always better then your sidekick telling you where to go 150x over and over again till you just go there to get it to shut the **** up. Piss the sidekick off. The games would be better for it.
   
   
8. New villain - I disagree
   I disagree only because I think a better villain is what we want. I don't care if it's new or rehash. Just make it better and I'll be happy. I'm not against a new one but I think better should be the emphasis here and not just new.
   
   
9. Huge Bosses - I disagree
   As I said above. I'm not against huge bosses but I think better bosses should be the emphasis here and not just huge.
   
   
10. Different Endings - I agree
    Why not? . . . Only if it's done well. If it's just there to be different but it's done liek **** then it'll be a bad thing. As I said above, just make whatever ending scheme you want done really well, and I'll be happy. Quality is more important than different just for the sake of being different.

 

[Linkmaster30000]

I tend to disagree with a lot of these lists, but here are my thoughts on this one.

10. No Gimmicks - It depends on what's defined as a gimmick. Touchscreen controls were a bit much for me, but turning into a painting or a wolf or having motion controls (if they're good) don't bother me all that much. Besides, you need something to make the game different from the others.

9. No Backtracking - I think "less backtracking" is a good rule. OoT did it pretty well - there were Skulltulas you missed because you didn't have the right items, so you had to go back and get them, but only if you wanted them. Having to go back to the same area time and time again (SKYWARD SWORD BAH) can get annoying if it's plot-related, but if it's optional, I don't really mind it too much.

8. Randomly Generated Dungeons - I don't really want this. Having a map is nice, and knowing where you're going is important to an adventure game. This isn't the Item World in Disgaea. Randomly generated ENEMIES would be cool after you, say, unlock the final dungeon. But that's as far as I'd go with random generating stuff.

7. Fast Travel - Meh. I like being able to warp, certainly, but being able to just explore like in TP is fun and relaxing as well, as long as you don't have to do it to go everywhere. I think that for the most part, the Zelda series has done a fine job with this.

6. More Character Customization - I can see the argument for this. Having the option to change Link's hair color and style would be nice for those who want to play as the "classic" Link from the earlier games. At the same time, I think it loses something if you're allowed to change too much of such an iconic character model. It would be like changing Samus into a man, or Mario without a mustache. It's just weird.

5. Zelda to Grow Up - Ehhhhhhh I don't know about this. It depends on how it's done. Part of the reason I like Zelda games is that I can show them to nephews and nieces (and future children) without having to worry about anything. If I wanted a more dark and mature game, I'd play something like God of War. Now, literally having Zelda as the queen, THAT would be cool.

4. No Sidekicks - I'd say that about half of the time, I haven't minded the sidekicks. It's the other half that I dread. As long as the sidekick isn't overly annoying and has a fun backstory (Tatl and Midna, for instance), I'd be fine with one. We don't need another Fi, though.

3. New Villain - I still like Ganondorf. I want to see him really take control of the plot. That said, if there were a really good villain that was similar, or had the spirit of Ganon inside, I'd be fine with that, too.

2. Huge Bosses - No preference. Bosses are bosses. I don't think they should ALL be huge, but having some gigantic enemies makes the game fun and challenging.

1. Different Endings - Showing what happens to the other characters, like in LttP, is totally fine. Having different endings depending on your choices would be odd, because Link is supposed to win. Admittedly, it would add something to the idea of it being a "legend", because people tell stories differently in different cultures or generations. But I think I'd like to stay away from this, personally.

 

[MW7]

10. No Gimmicks - Well I've liked most 3d games' gimmicks so I don't really have a preference here. MM was the most gimmicky game in the series and I love it mostly because of the masks and 3 day cycle. I thought the wolf in TP added a lot to the gameplay and actually could have been used more. The Wii Motionplus made Skyward Sword a really unique experience too and didn't detract from the game imo. I hope the Wii U gamepad gets some usage in the next Zelda for maps and inventory at least. Disagree

9. No Backtracking - This one really depends on the context. If you literally are traveling to a place just to pick something up, I understand that it is pointless padding of the game. When there is a difference in the area you are backtracking to, then I can see some value in backtracking. For instance the entire adult Link saga of OoT could be thought of as backtracking since you are literally returning to areas that you traveled to previously. I think backtracking can be good but it depends on what you think of as backtracking. Mixed

8. Randomly Generated Dungeons - This idea has some potential, but it also could horribly backfire. I'd prefer that Nintendo spend more time on thoughtfully designed dungeons, and if they include randomly generated dungeons, then I'd want them to be optional with good rewards. Mixed

7. Fast Travel - Absolutely, it seems silly to argue against this as if you don't like it you don't have to use it. However, Zelda games usually already have this so I have no idea why it was on the list. Agree

6. More Character Customization - Sure, I don't care but it shouldn't hurt anyone's enjoyment of the game. Personally green is my favorite color so I'd be using a green tunic even if we had the choice of color. Agree

5. Zelda to Grow Up - I watched the video and I'm still not sure what the guy is asking for. I think Zelda should appeal to all people, but if he wants a more nuanced story then I think that's fine. Mixed

4. No Sidekicks - Some kind of help should be optional, but forced help should go away forever. Agree

3. New Villain - Doesn't matter to me either way. This relates more to the story than anything else I think, and it doesn't make much gameplay difference. Mixed

2. Intimidating Bosses - I think this is a cool idea. I don't think we need exclusively giant bosses, but it would be really good to mix it up with big bosses. Agree

1. Different Endings - I really want this because it implies that there will be more nonlinearity and player choice which are two things I really want more of in the series. Agree

 

[Soul]

I mostly agree with @MW7 's list, though I'd like to add that Point 8 isn't going to happen in a 3D game anyway. They might be able to pull that off on a handheld title, but doing that in a 3D game would be way to complicated to program I think.