- Joined
- Feb 17, 2015
Sure! Go for it!
Official ZD Mario Maker Level Sharing Thread!
- Thread starter Lozjam
- Start date
Sure! Go for it!
Are you talking to anyone in particular here or in general to all of us here?
CrimsonCavalier
Fuzzy Pickles
Great! If you saw the video, you'll see what the basic concept is. I play your levels, I die a bunch, everyone is happy.
Everyone!
Fair enough. If you want to use the levels i made in your videos, feel free to. Whatever you want to do with them is fine.
CrimsonCavalier
Fuzzy Pickles
@Lozjam
I started off with your levels, because 1. you started the thread 2. you were the first one to post your levels for everyone to play. And I have to say, I was VERY impressed. I really enjoyed them, especially Bowser's Castle. It was a very creative and well-thought out level design.
The only level I didn't really like was the water level. I just don't enjoy water levels in general, so it's nothing personal. And Luigi's Mansion ... my only complaint is that it seemed like it relied too much on trial-and-error. There were some parts that I felt were really unfair, but overall it was a very good set of levels.
I'll be editing the video and posting it hopefully tonight or tomorrow. But overall, very good job on those levels.
I started off with your levels, because 1. you started the thread 2. you were the first one to post your levels for everyone to play. And I have to say, I was VERY impressed. I really enjoyed them, especially Bowser's Castle. It was a very creative and well-thought out level design.
The only level I didn't really like was the water level. I just don't enjoy water levels in general, so it's nothing personal. And Luigi's Mansion ... my only complaint is that it seemed like it relied too much on trial-and-error. There were some parts that I felt were really unfair, but overall it was a very good set of levels.
I'll be editing the video and posting it hopefully tonight or tomorrow. But overall, very good job on those levels.
@Frozen Chosen and everyone else here:
I have made a 2nd WarioWare stage.
WarioWare Inc. Nanogames
BFEA-0000-007E-9830
The premise of this level is the same as the other WarioWare stage. You can only die by running out of time. But that is the challenge to get to the end and complete all the nano games before the time is up. I called it Nanogames because each game this time around ended up being smaller in size, but still just as tricky to complete.
How the small game idea came about is, I had an idea for the first game in the level. All drawn up on paper. It worked well in the small space provided to it. That got me thinking, what if all the other games in the level were roughly the same size. That gave me a challenge to make more games for the level using only that small amount of screen real estate for each game. I ended up doing it. The end result is not all that bad. I do reckon the first WarioWare level I made is better but this level is not all that bad. It's something different (but still in the same WarioWare genre).
At the end of it all I realised I didn't end up uding the doors. Oh well. But I do think the doors would not have worked too well as there's not much space to use doors in, and there has to be some time waster before each door, punishing you for choosing the wrong door. Not much space to add in such a punishment (like in the first level I made). Maybe I could have worked out a way to use the doors. But for the 2nd level the doors didn't make the cut. It's not like I tried them and they failed, I just didn't even think about them till after yhe level was done. If there is enough demand for a 3rd WarioWare level I just might use the doors there.
Hope you all like the stage.
@CrimsonCavalier
I liked your video playing Lozjam's levels. Your commentary was interesting and was well worth watching.
[edit] The WarioWare Inc. Nanogames level ID is fixed to be the updated version of the level.
I have made a 2nd WarioWare stage.
WarioWare Inc. Nanogames
BFEA-0000-007E-9830
The premise of this level is the same as the other WarioWare stage. You can only die by running out of time. But that is the challenge to get to the end and complete all the nano games before the time is up. I called it Nanogames because each game this time around ended up being smaller in size, but still just as tricky to complete.
How the small game idea came about is, I had an idea for the first game in the level. All drawn up on paper. It worked well in the small space provided to it. That got me thinking, what if all the other games in the level were roughly the same size. That gave me a challenge to make more games for the level using only that small amount of screen real estate for each game. I ended up doing it. The end result is not all that bad. I do reckon the first WarioWare level I made is better but this level is not all that bad. It's something different (but still in the same WarioWare genre).
At the end of it all I realised I didn't end up uding the doors. Oh well. But I do think the doors would not have worked too well as there's not much space to use doors in, and there has to be some time waster before each door, punishing you for choosing the wrong door. Not much space to add in such a punishment (like in the first level I made). Maybe I could have worked out a way to use the doors. But for the 2nd level the doors didn't make the cut. It's not like I tried them and they failed, I just didn't even think about them till after yhe level was done. If there is enough demand for a 3rd WarioWare level I just might use the doors there.
Hope you all like the stage.
@CrimsonCavalier
I liked your video playing Lozjam's levels. Your commentary was interesting and was well worth watching.
[edit] The WarioWare Inc. Nanogames level ID is fixed to be the updated version of the level.
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- Joined
- Feb 17, 2015
Great sequel! Even though the rooms were smaller, the games were used well in the space provided. My favorite would have to be #5 because it had a higher level of difficulty, but was passable and fun. #4 was a pain in the butt!! You'll noticed a died a ton just trying to get passed it! It was very challenging. I would maybe suggest not having the trampolines next to the pipe. It should be hard enough just getting to the warp pipe. The time was perfect. Love the whole idea. Can't say which is better. They're both pretty good. Great job!
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2015
Oh and if you guys want to check out the other two levels I made, go right ahead. I'm using my friends account so most of the levels are his but I've made three: Luigi's Mansion, Déja Vu (82DC-0000-003F-7258), and Sanic Live and Learn (C9E1-0000-007B-8F78). Tell me what you think or what you feel went wrong with the level. I'd love to hear your opinion.
I took your advice, I reuploaded the WarioWare,Inc. Nanogames level withthose two trampolines after the pipe on #4 removed. I do think it was possibly a little too hard to have to slam s=down on the controller just to enter the pipe. The coallenge (as you so correctly said) should be in getting to the pipe each time and not using a trick to enter the pipe. So those 2 trampolines are removed. Here is the updated course ID number for the fixed up level:
WarioWare,Inc. Nanogames
BFEA-0000-007E-9830
Thanks for the advice. I do believe levels should have better design and be more fun over just stupidly hard. This kind of advice you have, you can't work out on your own, always nice having someone else play your stages for it. Thank you.
Here is a little of how I designed the WarioWare levels. Not sure if anyone cares enough to read this but I'll say it just in case someone does.
Here is some of the thought process that went into room #5 (second level). I originally wanted room #5 to be a P switch race. Hit the P switch then race down (or up) a twisty path and you'd only make it to the end to enter pipe if you were fast enough before the coins turned back into bricks. I tried this a few times but realised the room size was just not large enough to accomodate this. I even trued using fast backward conveyor belts to slow the player down but still no good. Since smaller room sizes was a theme of the level, I had to abandon the idea. I had the fast conveyor belts sitting there just staring at me and then the idea hit me, what if I used them to make for some tricky jumps that need good timing but doesn't punish the player too much of they screw it up a few times before they complete it. Then I made the room as you saw it in the level.
This room along with all of the other rooms, are designed around the principle of a lot of either trial and error or tricky jumping. But if you fail (ie choose the wrong pipe or warp or door, talking about both WarioWare levels I made here) you can almost instantly move on and try another and another and another till you find the right one. The punishment for failing is almost none. The sound effects are there to alert the player when they made the right or wrong choice. The doors in the first level (roon #4) are a good example of this. Room #1 in the second level is a good example too, I added in the higher coin block with the sound effect to tell the player that was the home you need to go through and that was the success of that room. I realised though, (noticable in room #3 level 2) if you put a sound on a brick but that brock is turned into a coin, you still get the sound effect when you collect that coin. Not a major issue though, I can live with that. I needed those bricks to have the fail sound to tell the player, Nope wrong brick and the success sound on the correct brick to tell the player that's the success in that room. This matters as the player does not really have enough time to work it out for themselves in the short time limit (that's the whole point of the stage though).
On a side note, in a good run I can do both levels in roughly 50 seconds each. But that's because I know how to beat the levels, I made them. So I tried each of the levels with intentionally choosing the wrong ways in each room a few times to see what it'd be line for a new player trying these levels. That's how I came up with the 100 second time limit. It's hard, but not too hard once you know what to do in each room. I wanted the levels to be franticly fast paced but not too hard for the players. Fun has to be there as well. Also the music playing fast because it's 100 seconds or less left in the stage is an added bonus, adds to the tension in the levels (as in hurry hurry or you'll run out of time, the same feeling the actually WarioWare games had).
Numbering the rooms numbered 1 through 5 came about because I thought that would be a nice idea and because people playing my stage from the course select screen (not 100 mario challenge) would be able to see that there is 5 challenges but not what each challenge is. For most Mario levels this doesn't matter as seeing the stage leyout doesn't show the difficulty of the level at all. But for these two stages, seeing the 5 rooms before hand does make the level much easier. Also warping out to a new number each time is a distinct end to each room and the player feels like they have accomplished a room. An easy and fast way to let the player know which room they are up to and that they have finished the last room.
I only added the brick at the beginning of each stage to force the player to play as Wario. I could have just made a mushroom instantly fall on Mario at the start. Same end result. But then I could not have the level mock you with laughter as you turn into Wario. That is only a little thing, but I feel it adds to the overall fin of the level. So to do this and force the player to be Wario for the whole level I needed that brick. Also being little and able to break bricks does open up more room ideas too.
Name wise. I called the first level Mirco basically copying the name of the original WarioWare game. The second level I chose Nano because Nano is smaller than Micro, which fits in with the rooms being physically smaller in the second level.
These two levels, Microgames and Nanogames, don't look like much but I put quite a lot of thought into each one. To the point where I drew out some rough ideas pre-hand on paper when I was not near the WiiU. SO I would not forget the ideas and to see what would and would not work.
I played your two new stages - Déja Vu and Sanic Live and Learn.
Déja Vu - I thought the concept was very good. Sort of Groundhog Day like but all in one level. I quite enjoyed it. The first time I played it I took it slow and I was just overwhelmed by the number of enemies after me and could not hold out long enough and boom I died. The next time I tried the stage, I pretended it was a don't stop running stage. I just ran past everything and rigbht over Bowser and boom stage done. My only recommendation would be to add in something to slow the player down. The reason being is the toughness in the stage takes a few seconds to appear (ie all the enemies spawning from the pipes). If you race through the stage you can avoid all of this. Some way to slow down the player, maybe some bricks to break or a wall to jump over or some donut platforms you have to wait around on to fall down each time would do the trick. Just some different ideas. But I'd add them to each of the repeating areas in the stage. So the player can get used to them before tha harder areas come. I like the concept. Just the stage can be broken if you run it too fast.
Sanic Live and Learn - A very nice level too. I quite liked it. The level did feel like green hills or similar from the sonic games. You got the aesthetics spot on. Also needing to jump on the fat green shells to hit baby bowser was a good idea. I quite liked that. A unique boss fight. I am aware it's supposed to be similar to eggman in his little ship. A nice touch. There was two little things I had issues with ib the level though.
- I felt the stage didn't emphasise speed enough. Sonic is all about speed. But a slowly slowly approach worked best for me. This is not a major issue as the stage overall worked.
- Blind jumps. After the warp pipe I didn't know which way to go, to the left or down. I tried down and boom I died. So left it was. Also at the double wall of trampolines, I was presented with 3 gaps to choose from. No idea which one to choose, so I chose the first gap and boom I died, so I tried the 2nd one and success. Both of those instances are trial and error. Zero way to know which way you need to go each time without guessing. Maybe some more arrows telling the player which way to go would help a lot. Not sure if that is a feature of the stage or not. But that's how it felt to me.
I will say well done on both levels. You put some effort into them and they for the most part work. Unlike many of the other stages that are just bad level design or overused, braindead automatic levels.
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- Joined
- Feb 17, 2015
@the8thark Thanks for explaining your thought process for your level design! It really got me thinking of how I can create better levels! I think the idea you had for #5 would work great for another level, but it was good move to keep the small room design.
Thanks for the advise. Deja Vu was made to troll my roommate but he laughed and liked it so much that he uploaded it. I see what you mean about the speed problem. Would changing the time of the level help you think? Or maybe just side scrolling?
I can definitely see the problem with Sanic. I needed to be clearer about where to go. Also the speed thing is also an important thing, but I though maybe the player would get bored with the just focusing on speed so I added a little more platforming. but maybe straight speed would have been the way to go?
Thanks for the advise. Deja Vu was made to troll my roommate but he laughed and liked it so much that he uploaded it. I see what you mean about the speed problem. Would changing the time of the level help you think? Or maybe just side scrolling?
I can definitely see the problem with Sanic. I needed to be clearer about where to go. Also the speed thing is also an important thing, but I though maybe the player would get bored with the just focusing on speed so I added a little more platforming. but maybe straight speed would have been the way to go?
- For Deja Vu give the level the slowest (turtle) side scroll. That would force the players to deal with the enemies and not be able to race ahead. That just might be the fix for that level. Your side scrolling idea is a good one. Just remember to make it possible to jump over the Bowsers at the end or have a way to beat them quickly enough. Sure the turtle scroll is slow but you need some serious time to beat Bowser and the turtle scroll might be even too fast for that.
- For Sanic, keep the platforming in. Sonic games are known for their great combination of speed and platforming. Your platforming I really liked. I think all you need is some arrows so players don't have blind jumps to deal with. For the speed aspect, quite possibly make the time limit an actual issue that needs to be dealt with. Set the time so players have to be fast or fail the stage. So basically a couple arrows at the right places and fiddle with the level time limit. That's it. The rest of the level is very good and I'd not fiddle with that at all.
Also thank you for reading my talk on how I designed the levels above.
A last point. Somehting your levels did rather well was follow the Playtonic (EX rare guys) basic principles of level design. They are the masters at level design (good enough to be said in the same sentence as Will Wright and Miyamoto).
- First - No Danger - showing you the skill needed to beat the stage and getting the player to do it
- Second - Perceived Danger - showing the player what to look out for and what the danger is but not letting them die.
- Third - Actual Danger - where they have to use the skill from part 1 to bypass the dangers of type shown in part two or the player dies. This is the rest of the level.
For my WarioWare levels though it's harder to follow this structure as WarioWare games are desgned to throw you right in with no instructions at all. But I tried to follow this by having Room #1 in both being just the pipes and invisible blocks. Making it obviously clear what you have to do in the stage. I only added in the tougher platforming and P Switch rooms later on after the player has commpleted one room already and knows what the stage is all about. When the player sees the bricks on the warp pipe, by that point in the level they know from the previous rooms, that, there has to be a P Switch in the room somewhere as that is the way out.
Another thing you didn't do (this is a good thing) is have too many game objects and collectables used for scenery. Playtonic are big on this and it makes sense. People like to swing on every vine and collect everything they can see. Having vines or items out of reach of the player just as decoration just annoys the player at times as it's collectable items and game objects they can't collect / use. So many of the bad Mario Maker levels break this rule. Sure a little is fine but having most of the level doing this is bad level design. You didn't do this and it shows. The Sanic level I felt had just enough power ups, not too many and not underused either. So a well done from me on this too.
Sorry for going on and on about this, but there are so many bad Mario Maker levels out there, when I see a good one that seems to follow the basic princiles of good level design I just want to talk about that level a lot and play it a few times.
CrimsonCavalier
Fuzzy Pickles
I'm currently recording and playing @the8thark 's levels. I have to say the Wario Ware level is giving me a really hard time, especially the second room. I'm still doing the first version of it, Wario Ware Inc.. Your first level was awesome though. I like how you walked me through what I was supposed to do (Walls are for Jumping).
@CrimsonCavalier Thanks so much. I'll defo watch your video of it all when it's done.
I'll tell you what you need to do in that 2nd room of the 1st WarioWare level I have made (I've made 2, Micro and Nano). Both WarioWare levels are very different, but have the same principles in mind. In a spoiler tag of cause just incase you don't want to read it.
You have to jump once, over a hole or over a block then use the speed generated to just run accross the rest of the gaps.
Thanks for the comments on the first level. How you described it is exactly my plan. To walk newer players through what wall jumping is and how to do it. I'd not played any NSMB games before Super Mario Maker and I learned what wall jumping was (in relation to mario games) through trial and error, so I made the level to help others who also are new to the wall jumping mechanic.
I've only made 4 levels as you can see.
These Walls . . - You've played already.
WarioWare Microgames - You are playing now. Not too hard once you get how to do each room. I will say that 2nd room is the toughest.
WarioWare Nanogames - Room 4 and 5 are a little tricky jumping wise but overall not too hard I'd say.
Go West - A very different kind of level, based my idea of doing a certain SMB3 level backwards. A few people have said it's pretty tough. I tried to make it not too hard though. I think it's just the level mechanic that is hard. I'll explain it in a spoiler tag if you want some hints on how to beat the stage)
You have to jump over and over on the para-beetle to lower it in the air to pass some obstacles. Also I added in pipes that spit them out too so later on you have extra para-beetles to use. Also remember the para-beetles do fly through obstacles. You'll need that to pass the early section with the stairs of pipes.
Thanks again for trying my stages. I'll certainly make more in the future when I get some more ideas. And have time to make them. Well I do have one idea now but I am not sure it is possible in Super Mario Maker. Will certainly look forward to seeing the video made.
I did watch your Lozjam video and that was great. I liked how you approached the videos.
CrimsonCavalier
Fuzzy Pickles
I was able to figure out the Wario Ware Inc Microgames 2nd room after some trial and error. For some reason, I couldn't generate enough speed to run across, but I did get it.
I'm glad you enjoyed Lozjam's videos. I think it's a good way to see how people are playing your levels, and to see if they are approaching them the way you intended.
I'm glad you enjoyed Lozjam's videos. I think it's a good way to see how people are playing your levels, and to see if they are approaching them the way you intended.