Nintendo Switch News and Discussion Thread

[CrimsonCavalier]

"Source" claims Switch considerably less powerful than PS4, uses different architecture. Now as you know, I'm the King of "If Nintendo Didn't Say It, I Don't Believe It." But assuming this is true, then we're back to square one.

Now, I'll be the first to admit I'm not a programer, and I know very little of how the hardware directly relates into software development, but I do know that the Switch is using Nvidia, instead of AMD (like the XBO and PS4 use) processors, which set it apart already. I know that the latest AMD processors are better than the latest Nvidia ones. I know that Nvidia had been falling behind in the processor arms race between themselves, AMD and Intel.

I also know that architecture means just as much—if not more—as actual processing power when it comes to making ports between consoles work. The game may end up being able to load faster or have better visuals on a more powerful console, but as long as the architecture is the same, the game will run fine. However, when architectures are different, that is when porting becomes an issue. Nintendo has been stubborn, and has been the only company still using PowerPC (The Wii U used this, while the XBO and PS4 moved on to x86).

Again, I admit I don't know much about this, but if the architecture they're using is old from the start, then how successfully ports are brought to the Switch could be something we need to be concerned about.

I've said this many times: I don't care if the Switch is more powerful than the PS4 Pro or weaker than the base XBO, as long as it's in the ball-park. As long as it's competitive.

Anyways, let's see how this pans out.

 

[Lozjam]

"Source" claims Switch considerably less powerful than PS4, uses different architecture. Now as you know, I'm the King of "If Nintendo Didn't Say It, I Don't Believe It." But assuming this is true, then we're back to square one.

Now, I'll be the first to admit I'm not a programer, and I know very little of how the hardware directly relates into software development, but I do know that the Switch is using Nvidia, instead of AMD (like the XBO and PS4 use) processors, which set it apart already. I know that the latest AMD processors are better than the latest Nvidia ones. I know that Nvidia had been falling behind in the processor arms race between themselves, AMD and Intel.

I also know that architecture means just as much—if not more—as actual processing power when it comes to making ports between consoles work. The game may end up being able to load faster or have better visuals on a more powerful console, but as long as the architecture is the same, the game will run fine. However, when architectures are different, that is when porting becomes an issue. Nintendo has been stubborn, and has been the only company still using PowerPC (The Wii U used this, while the XBO and PS4 moved on to x86).

Again, I admit I don't know much about this, but if the architecture they're using is old from the start, then how successfully ports are brought to the Switch could be something we need to be concerned about.

I've said this many times: I don't care if the Switch is more powerful than the PS4 Pro or weaker than the base XBO, as long as it's in the ball-park. As long as it's competitive.

Anyways, let's see how this pans out.

If this rumor is true, then the exact specs the article states, using Nvidia's hardware then the Switch is at just around XBO's power. Using raw Flops per second is a terrible way to tell a power, as it's entirely dependent on bottle necking and how efficient a console is. NVIDIA is actually way better than AMD in this regard.

However, this rumor is utter bull****. Not because of the power nor that this is bad news.

The editor of VB had to edit this 3 times, and this goes directly against what NVIDIA has said regarding their chipset. Of which they said
"The high-efficiency scalable processor includes an NVIDIA GPU based on the same architecture as the world’s top-performing GeForce gaming graphics cards."

That author of that article is just really a troll...

Even if this is true, he presented the information in a very trolling way.

If this information is true, this isn't the end of the world, because Switch will be at the power of XBO, and the author neglected to mention this. Third parties are working on the Switch as well, including Bethesda, which is even more proof to prove the competency of the console power-wise.. So I wouldn't worry just yet.

The Switch no matter what was going to be less powerful than the PS4. Right now, the Switch is either going to be at XBO's level, or just a little bit above.

Regarding porting, NVidia has already directly said that games will be easy to port to. And the Proof is right there with all of these third parties making games, and saying this exact thing.

 

[Adventurer of Hyrule]

As long as its cheap it could be as powerful as the wii u for all i care.

 

[CrimsonCavalier]

@Lozjam I hear what you're saying, I really do, but all I can think of when you say "Third parties have pledged support," is how 3rd parties pledged support for the Wii U, and that didn't work out, and how they pledged support for the Wii—which did end up being support, but we got really terrible versions of the games. Because the Wii really did get a lot of 3rd party games, but most of the multi-platform titles were insulting, to say the least.

I think the reason we keep disagreeing on this is because you're extremely optimistic about this, and I'm actually really weary of the whole Switch concept. I want to be excited, but I can't be excited just quite yet. I'm sitting somewhere between "Nintendo is Doomed" and "Cautiously Optimistic."

In the end, I really hope you're right and I was worried for nothing.

 

[Jamie]

If this rumor is true, then the exact specs the article states, using Nvidia's hardware then the Switch is at just around XBO's power. Using raw Flops per second is a terrible way to tell a power, as it's entirely dependent on bottle necking and how efficient a console is. NVIDIA is actually way better than AMD in this regard.

However, this rumor is utter bull****. Not because of the power nor that this is bad news.

The editor of VB had to edit this 3 times, and this goes directly against what NVIDIA has said regarding their chipset. Of which they said
"The high-efficiency scalable processor includes an NVIDIA GPU based on the same architecture as the world’s top-performing GeForce gaming graphics cards."

That author of that article is just really a troll...

Even if this is true, he presented the information in a very trolling way.

If this information is true, this isn't the end of the world, because Switch will be at the power of XBO, and the author neglected to mention this. Third parties are working on the Switch as well, including Bethesda, which is even more proof to prove the competency of the console power-wise.. So I wouldn't worry just yet.

The Switch no matter what was going to be less powerful than the PS4. Right now, the Switch is either going to be at XBO's level, or just a little bit above.

Regarding porting, NVidia has already directly said that games will be easy to port to. And the Proof is right there with all of these third parties making games, and saying this exact thing.

I would bet a pretty penny that an early 2017 handheld will not have more power than a late 2013 home console.

For example, the PS3 came out in 2006. The PS Vita came out 5 years later and was still considerably weaker.

Until Nintendo releases actual specs I refuse to believe that a handheld equals power to a modern home console in the middle of its life when they haven't even been able to come close to matching a console at the end of its life. And this is Nintendo, after all.

I would wager it's somewhere in between the Wii U and the Xbox One.

 

[CrimsonCavalier]

I would bet a pretty penny that an early 2017 handheld will not have more power than a late 2013 home console.

For example, the PS3 came out in 2006. The PS Vita came out 5 years later and was still considerably weaker.

Until Nintendo releases actual specs I refuse to believe that a handheld equals power to a modern home console in the middle of its life when they haven't even been able to come close to matching a console at the end of its life. And this is Nintendo, after all.

I would wager it's somewhere in between the Wii U and the Xbox One.

This is assuming it's actually just a handheld.

My entire thought has always been, this is a console that has a small screen that can be taken with you. I expected a full console, with full console power, that you just happen to be able to take with you.

If this is not, then this thing is going to tank. If this is a handheld that you can dock on a little plastic thing and that displays the game on the TV (i.e., a really fancy GameBoy Player), then it makes a lot more sense for this thing to be underpowered.

I'll walk away from Nintendo for ever if this is the case, because if this is true, this is—hands down—the worst idea ever.

 

[Jamie]

This is assuming it's actually just a handheld.

My entire thought has always been, this is a console that has a small screen that can be taken with you. I expected a full console, with full console power, that you just happen to be able to take with you.

If this is not, then this thing is going to tank. If this is a handheld that you can dock on a little plastic thing and that displays the game on the TV (i.e., a really fancy GameBoy Player), then it makes a lot more sense for this thing to be underpowered.

I'll walk away from Nintendo for ever if this is the case, because if this is true, this is—hands down—the worst idea ever.

It has full console power, depending on what you mean by full power. But something that small could not realistically have power equal to modern consoles if that's what you mean.

 

[Lozjam]

It has full console power, depending on what you mean by full power. But something that small could not realistically have power equal to modern consoles if that's what you mean.

The PS4 and XBO actually have chipsets that were meant for portable tablets.

Like... The PS4, and XBO really aren't that powerful in the grand scheme of things. Even when they were released, they were vastly under powered compared to the technology at the time. So having a portable variant 4 years later of that sort of power isn't out of possibility.
The Switch will not be more powerful than the PS4 for sure. It will be close to the XBOX One.

We actually know that the Switch runs close considering that it can run Unreal Engine 4 easily. Making ports easy to do. The Switch is shown running graphics such as this:

Meaning that nearly all third party will be able to run decently if they were created for the XBO and the PS4(Third Parties will not be making games exclusive to the Scorpio and the Pro, so this will not be an issue as well).

 

[Jamie]

The PS4 and XBO actually have chipsets that were meant for portable tablets.

Like... The PS4, and XBO really aren't that powerful in the grand scheme of things. Even when they were released, they were vastly under powered compared to the technology at the time. So having a portable variant 4 years later of that sort of power isn't out of possibility.
The Switch will not be more powerful than the PS4 for sure. It will be close to the XBOX One.

We actually know that the Switch runs close considering that it can run Unreal Engine 4 easily. Making ports easy to do. The Switch is shown running graphics such as this:

Meaning that nearly all third party will be able to run decently if they were created for the XBO and the PS4(Third Parties will not be making games exclusive to the Scorpio and the Pro, so this will not be an issue as well).

I agree that the games will look nice and it will run games like FFXV and such. I just don't think it'll be quite as powerful as the XBOX One.

 

[Lozjam]

I agree that the games will look nice and it will run games like FFXV and such. I just don't think it'll be quite as powerful as the XBOX One.

I think it will be just shy in terms of third party games. So yeah, I agree. Multi platform Games will likely mostly run at 720p, which is still hella impressive on a handheld.

However, first party games will see much more quality regarding graphical fidelity, perhaps even running and looking better than games such as Uncharted. Taking advantage of the low loading times of cartridges, along with NVidia's superior graphical tools will be able to create games that will look utterly fantastic. This will be apparent I think when we look at some of the exclusive games that third parties are making for the Switch, such as Platinum Games. Ubisoft, along with the first party graphical powerhouses that are Retro Studios and Monolith Soft.

 

[Jamie]

I think it will be just shy in terms of third party games. So yeah, I agree. Multi platform Games will likely mostly run at 720p, which is still hella impressive on a handheld.

However, first party games will see much more quality regarding graphical fidelity, perhaps even running and looking better than games such as Uncharted. Taking advantage of the low loading times of cartridges, along with NVidia's superior graphical tools will be able to create games that will look utterly fantastic. This will be apparent I think when we look at some of the exclusive games that third parties are making for the Switch, such as Platinum Games. Ubisoft, along with the first party graphical powerhouses that are Retro Studios and Monolith Soft.

It's certainly the most incredible handheld ever, that we can agree on. I think the difference between a handheld that plugs into the TV and a console that you can take on the go is just semantics. At the end of the day it doesn't get a graphical or processing boost from being plugged in so it is a handheld, just with home console support. I can't imagine if this is successful that Nintendo continues its DS/GameBoy line especially since the next Pokemon game has been all but announced for the Switch.

 

[Lozjam]

It's certainly the most incredible handheld ever, that we can agree on. I think the difference between a handheld that plugs into the TV and a console that you can take on the go is just semantics. At the end of the day it doesn't get a graphical or processing boost from being plugged in so it is a handheld, just with home console support. I can't imagine if this is successful that Nintendo continues its DS/GameBoy line especially since the next Pokemon game has been all but announced for the Switch.

Technically, the Dock is confirmed to overclock the switch console, due to the exact patents of the switch. Much like how Laptops run better when they are plugged in. However, it's only really going to affect resolution and perhaps frame rate.

This is from the Patents that detail exactly what the Switch has(100% confirmed by the US government, and is official). Of which, I am dissecting and it's quite a huge project.

However, I want to point out one thing.

Yup. That's right.
The Nintendo Switch can use your veins as an unlock system....
Also...
The vitality censor is coming back with a vengeance baby!

More is coming later: probably in its own thread because it's such a huge project. But man. This console is future proofed like to the extreme. This also pretty much takes every mechanic from every single previous Nintendo console(yes including the virtual boy) and mashing it into one.

 

[the8thark]

"Source" claims Switch considerably less powerful than PS4, uses different architecture. Now as you know, I'm the King of "If Nintendo Didn't Say It, I Don't Believe It." But assuming this is true, then we're back to square one.

Less powerful does not mean capable of less. The Switch will be capable of great fun games. That's all that matters at the end of the day. There is enough inside the Switch to do this. Everything about the Switch is optimised. AlsoNintendo being virtically integrated ensures that games are made with the hardware in mind and the hardware is made with the games in mind. So neither are an afterthought. Both are developed in tandom (1st party games at least).

Nintendo is not back to square one assuming this is true. Nintendo just need to focus on how good the games are. Just Reggie did on Jimmy Fallon. Everyone said how well BotW played there. I think on January 14 once the press will have ad their time with the Switch (the press ahnds on event) we will know more. Using raw numbers to judge things today is only part of the picture. The rest is optimisation and how well you make the game and hardware.

I can'e see Nintendo divulging all of the mitty gritty in regards to Switch specs on the 13th of January, so folks like ifixit will do that in March. I'll be looking forward to their Switch teardown.

Anyways, let's see how this pans out.

I agree totally. Lets wait and see.

If this rumor is true, then the exact specs the article states, using Nvidia's hardware then the Switch is at just around XBO's power. Using raw Flops per second is a terrible way to tell a power, as it's entirely dependent on bottle necking and how efficient a console is. NVIDIA is actually way better than AMD in this regard.

However, this rumor is utter bull****. Not because of the power nor that this is bad news.

The editor of VB had to edit this 3 times, and this goes directly against what NVIDIA has said regarding their chipset. Of which they said
"The high-efficiency scalable processor includes an NVIDIA GPU based on the same architecture as the world’s top-performing GeForce gaming graphics cards."

That author of that article is just really a troll...

Even if this is true, he presented the information in a very trolling way.

If this information is true, this isn't the end of the world, because Switch will be at the power of XBO, and the author neglected to mention this. Third parties are working on the Switch as well, including Bethesda, which is even more proof to prove the competency of the console power-wise.. So I wouldn't worry just yet.

The Switch no matter what was going to be less powerful than the PS4. Right now, the Switch is either going to be at XBO's level, or just a little bit above.

Regarding porting, NVidia has already directly said that games will be easy to port to. And the Proof is right there with all of these third parties making games, and saying this exact thing.

We shall see how powerful the Switch is. But at you correctly stated that matters not for all the reasons you have said here. Best to wait for the facts here (on January 13 or in March when the Switch is opened up and we see what it's made of). I also agree that raw FLOPS doesn't mean much because there is other bottlenecks. The 3rd parties are interested in porting to the Switch. That's a good thing. I don't think they will be toned down ports like the Wii and WiiU had. But we shall see in time.

It's certainly the most incredible handheld ever, that we can agree on. I think the difference between a handheld that plugs into the TV and a console that you can take on the go is just semantics. At the end of the day it doesn't get a graphical or processing boost from being plugged in so it is a handheld, just with home console support. I can't imagine if this is successful that Nintendo continues its DS/GameBoy line especially since the next Pokemon game has been all but announced for the Switch.

Actually I have read it does get a boost. In a way. Because the console does not have to output the pixels when docked, it can have higher cpu and other speeds. Basically it's underclocked a little when in portable mode because of heat and other reasons. But not having a display to power when in docked mode it runs at full speed. A rumour and we shall see if this is true or not.

 

[CrimsonCavalier]

@Jamie :http://www.meristation.com/reportaj...-pokemon-nintendo-switch-es-el-futuro/2163540 -- I'll translate, but basically, Game Freak CEO Masuda has just said they're going to "wait and see" how the Switch does before talking about Pokemon.

MeriStation: Analizando el mercado actual de las consolas, vemos que especialmente en Occidente las consolas portátiles tienen un peso cada vez menor. ¿Cómo podría sobrevivir la saga Pokémon en un mercado sin consolas portátiles? Es decir, ¿se podría continuar la saga adaptándose inevitablemente a un mercado eminentemente doméstico? Tenemos el ejemplo de Nintendo Switch, un híbrido que permitiría ambas formas de juego. ¿De qué manera podría beneficiarse la saga principal de Pokémon de una consola así?

MeriStation (website): Analyzing the current console market, we see especially in the West portable consoles [handhelds] have less weight. How will the Pokemon saga survive in a market without [handhelds]? In other words, can the saga continue adapting to an inevitably domestic market? We have the example of the Nintendo Switch, a hybrid that will allow both types of play. In what way could Pokemon benefit from such a console?

Masuda: Para Pokémon es muy importante la comunicación. Dónde y cómo juegan nuestros jugadores es algo crucial. Por ejemplo, en Japón los niños suelen jugar en el parque, en casa de uno u otro, reunidos jugando con sus consolas portátiles. En Japón las consolas portátiles están lejos de morir, de hecho cuentan con un mejor estado de salud que las domésticas. Por ello, es importante para nosotros mantener lo mejor posible la comunicación, ese medio por el que la gente se una y se junte para jugar.

Masuda: For Pokemon, communication is very important. Where and how players play our games is something crucial. For example, in Japan kids tend to play in the park, in one another's house, together with their [handhelds]. In Japan, [handhelds] are far from dead, in fact they have better health than the domestic. Because of that, it's important for us to maintain the best possible communication, the medium by which people get together to play.

Sin duda, Nintendo Switch es el futuro, pero tendremos que esperar a que salga al mercado y estudiar cómo puede beneficiarse de Pokémon. Cuando la gente la tenga, tendremos que ver y estudiar profundamente cómo la utilizan para entonces pensar cómo serán las próximas entregas de Pokémon y cómo la saga se podría beneficiar de esta nueva consola.

Masuda: Without a doubt, the Nintendo Switch is the future, but we have to wait until it comes to market and study how it could benefit from Pokemon. When people get it [the Switch], we have to profoundly study how people use it to then think how the next entries of Pokemon would benefit from the new console.

Less powerful does not mean capable of less. The Switch will be capable of great fun games. That's all that matters at the end of the day.

See, it would be nice if that were true. Because I really enjoyed the Wii and the Wii U, but (despite the massive Wii sales), the market has spoken, and you and I and all the people that just want games and actually like video games are in the minority.

It really sucks, but it's true. People will play a worse game with better graphics than a better one with lesser ones. That's the current state of the gaming market.

If the Nintendo flops because people don't get it because it isn't powerful enough, we will lose Nintendo. This is Nintendo's last chance to create a product that the masses will want. So no, it does matter that the thing is powerful. Because if this thing tanks, Nintendo is through, and people like you and me that actually like games will be short of a company that we love.

 

[the8thark]

you and I and all the people that just want games and actually like video games are in the minority.

Unfortunately we are in the minority. Shiny HD is all that most people (and critics) want. Doesn't do much for the industry because those pretty buy shallow games do sell well, prompying others to keep making the same for the sales.

This is Nintendo's last chance to create a product that the masses will want. So no, it does matter that the thing is powerful. Because if this thing tanks, Nintendo is through, and people like you and me that actually like games will be short of a company that we love.

I don't know about that but if the Switch tanks then I think Nintendo will really have to re-evaluate things and it won't ever be the same Nintendo we know today. So it terms of keeping Nintendo as it is today I agree with you.