New timeline dropped

[Somasoa]

Ah, I see the fresh blood likes a bit of sport. Aside from the connections each game has to the others, the order of games has been changed and contradicted on so many occasions that it would be intellectually dishonest to pretend that there was ever anything more than a "this game came after this game" at a few points in the series' history. Of late, to their detriment, Nintendo has retroactively arranged the Legend of Zelda games into a timeline or apparently a "trimeline" as a way of throwing meat to Zelda fans. If you buy the "This is the timeline for when you got a game over" as being a detailed scheme years in the making, you deserve your timeline.

The point is not that a graphic of a Zelda timeline that's been officials recognized by Nintendo doesn't exist, it's that there never was a Zelda timeline. The legend of Zelda is a legend. When one generation tells a story of Zelda, it's about Link traveling to death mountain and Zora's domain and collecting cuccos and welding the hook shot and fighting Ganondorf. Another generation remembers the hookshot looking differently and Link collecting cuccos but not going to Zora's domain- wait, actually the Zora were enemies the way I heard it! And Ganondorf was actually a pig-looking guy. But another storyteller remembers that after that story, Link didn't defeat Ganondorf when he rose again and the next hero lived on Hyrule's mountaintops and sailed the seas but another storyteller says Link actually had a sword that split him into four.


It's a legend, not an exact accounting. Also, welcome to ZD-i.

The literal legend theory has been disproven more than once by the developers explicitly saying that individual games are connected to each other. This is also explicit to anybody paying attention to the stories of the games themselves. The Wind Waker isn’t a retelling of Ocarina of Time because The Wind Waker explicitly places itself AFTER Ocarina of Time. Couple this with every other game in the series that is a direct prequel or sequel (or even a distant prequel or sequel) and this narrative completely falls apart, further reinforced by the fact that each game simply doesn’t fit the “legend” narrative. “The Hero goes to Kakariko Village and chops up some grass for rupees and the gets 4 of the Cuccos necessary for the Magic Bottle but then forgets and goes to Kakariko Graveyard and tries to push a gravestone but is told off by a child and can’t push the gravestone so then he goes back to Kakariko and has to start over on the Cucco quest and-“ etc. It just simply doesn’t suffice as an explanation for the series explicitly going out of its way to connect itself. Does Ocarina of Time directly connect itself to The Minish Cap? No, but Ocarina of Time directly connects to Majora’s Mask which connects to Twilight Princess and etc. When breaking the series down into individual arcs, this chronology becomes apparent:

SS > OoT

OoT > WW > PH > ST

OoT > MM > TP

MC > FS > FSA

aLttP > LA > aLBW > LoZ > AoL

BotW > TotK

There were some specific games I omitted as the connections aren’t immediately clear from a surface glance, but the arcs that I’ve described are very explicit and air tight. Observing the series’ chronology is merely a matter of determining how these arcs fit. This is a conversation I’d be willing to have, but I don’t think you’d be interested to be blunt.

And no, I certainly don’t follow the Hyrule Historia timeline. It’s explicitly created by “fans” of the series and had nothing to do with Zelda Team, as described by Aonuma. It’s effectively Nintendo’s marketing team glorifying a fan theory, no better than anything we could come up, especially given the explicit fictions that Ambit creates that are unsupported by the game.

 

[Ryuu Kage Desu]

I was thinking about posting about this, as well. Beat me to it.

From what little solid information I have been able to gather, the "new" timeline doesn't actually change anything. It doesn't actually show a relation to any particular timeline, or indicate an offshoot, as many are calming. The timeline simply looks, to me, like a compacted version of the same thing we've seen before. From what we see in game, which I always look to first, the games are indeed connected. From what we have read from countless interviews, the games are stated to be properly connected, as well. I'll take in game content, and interviews, over an easily misinterpreted image any day.

I think the media might be stirring the pot.

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

I was thinking about posting about this, as well. Beat me to it.

From what little solid information I have been able to gather, the "new" timeline doesn't actually change anything. It doesn't actually show a relation to any particular timeline, or indicate an offshoot, as many are calming. The timeline simply looks, to me, like a compacted version of the same thing we've seen before. From what we see in game, which I always look to first, the games are indeed connected. From what we have read from countless interviews, the games are stated to be properly connected, as well. I'll take in game content, and interviews, over an easily misinterpreted image any day.

I think the media might be stirring the pot.

Counterpoint: if the chronology of your games isn't self-evident and needs to be clarified through interviews decades later then it's bad.

 

[Mikey the Gengar]

I don't envy the excessive naivety that it takes to believe that Miyamoto had a secret plan from the very beginning to file all of the games into a predetermined timeline. Those of us who were theorizing before Dark Horse created a timeline that was retroactively adopted by Nintendo are perfectly aware of it but plenty of kids are unfortunately subject to the historic revisionism pushed by some vocal individuals. In fact, it never mattered how the games were connected to each other but unfortunately the truth doesn't give the fans much to argue about. The very name of this thread is absolute proof there never was a master plan. By all means though, enjoy the struggle.

The most psychotic thing in this psychotic rant is the equivocation on display stubbornly insisting that a timeline can only exist if it's planned out ahead of time as a master plan

Did you know that if I relayed the events to you of my morning getting ready for school, they would exist on a timeline of loose chronology even if I didn't plan it ahead of time? Cause it sounds like you can't understand something like that

 

[Somasoa]

Counterpoint: if the chronology of your games isn't self-evident and needs to be clarified through interviews decades later then it's bad.

Most of the series is quite clear in its chronology. The main thing that needed clarification was the ending of Ocarina of Time, which, while slightly confusing, is still self evident with analysis.

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

Most of the series is quite clear in its chronology. The main thing that needed clarification was the ending of Ocarina of Time, which, while slightly confusing, is still self evident with analysis.

If you have to write fanfiction to explain your series' chronology then it's probably bad.

 

[Daku Rinku]

If you have to write fanfiction to explain your series' chronology then it's probably bad.

The Disney model, write books to ecplain their incoherent Star Wars.. when better writers explained all you needed to know before in the media you played or watched.

This is a trend in entertainment, no one paying attention to the story archs snd then patching later when they contradict something of worse retconning.

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

The Disney model, write books to ecplain their incoherent Star Wars.. when better writers explained all you needed to know before in the media you played or watched.

This is a trend in entertainment, no one paying attention to the story archs snd then patching later when they contradict something of worse retconning.

I dunno if I'd necessarily agree with the Star Wars comparison. Current Star Wars chronology is pretty self-evident within the stories themselves (with stuff like Mandalorian openly taking place about five years after the original trilogy) or acknowledged as part of the premise (the High Republic stuff saying right in the tin that it takes place one hundred years before the prequel trilogy).

Chronological confusion is certainly a risk of helming something so lore heavy and the big reason DC has taken to rebooting things every few decades: the silly string gets all tangled and it becomes difficult to write stories without tripping over the hundreds of strings rigged up decades earlier. The big difference is that Zelda really doesn't have complicated lore necessitating some grand reboot. The franchise has been around for almost forty years, but it tends to stray away from fleshing out its universe in favor of retreading safe ground.

 

[Somasoa]

If you have to write fanfiction to explain your series' chronology then it's probably bad.

If you refuse to put in the bare minimum required to understand a chronology then that’s on you. I echo my sentiments from earlier regarding an active culture of permeating laziness and self inflicted ignorance.

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

If you refuse to put in the bare minimum required to understand a chronology then that’s on you. I echo my sentiments from earlier regarding an active culture of permeating laziness and self inflicted ignorance.

You know, I've played a lot of video games. Heck, I've played a lot of extended series, some of which have upwards of fifteen-ish mainline entries. I've been playing Zelda games since around 1999. There was a time when I'd have touted it as my favorite video game franchise.

None of those series struggle with chronology the same way Zelda does, and telling someone that they should just do the homework about the video game timeline keep failing to establish isn't exactly an "Aha!" moment.

 

[Mikey the Gengar]

You know, I've played a lot of video games. Heck, I've played a lot of extended series, some of which have upwards of fifteen-ish mainline entries. I've been playing Zelda games since around 1999. There was a time when I'd have touted it as my favorite video game franchise.

None of those series struggle with chronology the same way Zelda does, and telling someone that they should just do the homework about the video game timeline keep failing to establish isn't exactly an "Aha!" moment.

Without looking it up please tell me the chronology of the metroid, pokemon, and final fantasy series

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

Without looking it up please tell me the chronology of the metroid, pokemon, and final fantasy series

I don't play Pokemon, I only bother with the Prime games (and those are sequential), and every Final Fantasy game is standalone unless otherwise specified, but have a few Final Fantasy timelines:

The Final Fantasy X timeline: FFX -> FFX-2.
The Final Fantasy XIII timeline: FFXIII -> the second game -> the third game.
The Final Fantasy IV timeline: FFIV -> FFIV The After Years.

 

[mαrkαsscoρ]

Without looking it up please tell me the chronology of the metroid, pokemon, and final fantasy series

of all examples, why final fantasy? it's like a different universe each time

 

[Mikey the Gengar]

of all examples, why final fantasy? it's like a different universe each time

It was just one that came to mind because there are like 30 games in the ff universe, including kingdom hearts and such

I picked three series that I know have loosely interconnected games and that I don't know the exact timeline of

 

[mαrkαsscoρ]

It was just one that came to mind because there are like 30 games in the ff universe, including kingdom hearts and such

I picked three series that I know have loosely interconnected games and that I don't know the exact timeline of

kingdom hearts is a better pick since it's an actual ongoing story that you have to kind of work to follow, FF games have basically nothing to do w/ each other story-wise, aside the obvious direct sequels