Breath of the Wild Mysterious Rito(?) Friend of foe?

[hwrdjacob]

Friendly reminder that variants of the Fokka (Fokkeru) do in fact have wings in Zelda 2. That's specifically why I brought it up.

Fokka s also were NEVER bad guys, that being one of the primary reasons I connected these dots. They guard the Triforce of Courage under what seems to be direct orders from the King of Hyrule; a role very similar to the Shiekah in how they are subservient directly to the royal family.

You are COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY INCORRECT about them being monsters from Demise. In fact, the manual of AOL very explicitly states that enemies in dungeons are created by the King of Hyrule himself, with Ganon's monsters being just overworld enemies. This extends to the Fokka and considering they are ONLY found in the Great Palace where the King himself once was stationed, and they guard the Triforce, this makes the parallels to both the Shiekah and the symbolism of the Loftwing pretty damn direct. With the bird people in BotW seeming to use Shiekah technology and resemble Loftwings, this is exactly why I realized Fokkas are a dead ringer. The Fokkas retroactively seem very possible to be Loftwings either charged by the king to guard the palace or created on the spot as warrior guardians. With how it's worded they could even have been created by an ancient king (possibly explaining a TP appearance)

This is the fun part of having encyclopedic knowledge of Zelda, you can connect obscure things together

 

[Cfrock]

The phrase 'Friendly reminder' is such a good way to make people not like you. Not trying to be funny, mate, but you'll only *ahem* rustle feathers saying that all the time because it makes you sound like a sanctimonious fop.

Just say your piece. We're all friends here (mostly). Don't act like a jackass about it.

 

[Amy Lu Minati]

As far as I can see there's little logic to this. If they are evolved Ritos, shouldn't they be "better"? Evolution typically causes beneficial change, but as far as I can tell the Ritos are overall more advanced than Kass' race. Here's why:

1. Rito have actual hands in addition to their wings, which are undoubtedly more handy (no pun intended) than the wings of Kass' race.

2. Rito have a human-like mouth which is way more efficient for speech than a bird's beak is.

3. Rito have long visible ears which makes them able to hear better than Kass' race which I assume have only holes for ears.

Also, I don't buy your reasoning as to why it can't be the evolved Fokka instead. We've had enemies turn good in the past. Just look at the Zora in ALttP and ALBW for example. They act as enemies for the most part in ALttP, but in ALBW they're good guys and one of them is even a Sage. Even though I am of the opinion that Kass' race is probably a brand new one, I think that IF for some reason they are related to a previously known race, it's most likely the Fokka based on the striking resemblance (apart from the arms/wings).

Rito can't fly on their own. Since this new bird race can, isn't that alone 100 times better? And Kass plays an accordian (one of the most complex instruments) with his wings, so I'm sure they work just as well as hands. They also look like they'd be a little stronger than a WW Rito. Speech isn't all a mouth is used for, why do you think they started growing a beak in the first place? And the kind of ear a bird has helps it hear differently than we do, pointy ears aren't necessarily better.
The thing is, the Zora are a race created by Hylia, so they aren't actually monsters. Fokka are monsters right? The Zora attacked Link because they were monsters it was them defending their territory, we see the Gorons do the same thing in TP, except you can't kill them. But if the Fokka aren't monsters and actually are a race created by Hylia and not Demise, then it might be them. But since I'm pretty sure the Fokka are a monster race I find that to be unlikely.
to the other guy:
How can the king create monsters if "Demise is the source of all monsters?" And how come some enemies in dungeons are the same as ones in caves? Did the King create the Keese too?

 

[hwrdjacob]

Rito can't fly on their own. Since this new bird race can, isn't that alone 100 times better? And Kass plays an accordian (one of the most complex instruments) with his wings, so I'm sure they work just as well as hands. They also look like they'd be a little stronger than a WW Rito. Speech isn't all a mouth is used for, why do you think they started growing a beak in the first place? And the kind of ear a bird has helps it hear differently than we do, pointy ears aren't necessarily better.
The thing is, the Zora are a race created by Hylia, so they aren't actually monsters. Fokka are monsters right? The Zora attacked Link because they were monsters it was them defending their territory, we see the Gorons do the same thing in TP, except you can't kill them. But if the Fokka aren't monsters and actually are a race created by Hylia and not Demise, then it might be them. But since I'm pretty sure the Fokka are a monster race I find that to be unlikely.
to the other guy:
How can the king create monsters if "Demise is the source of all monsters?" And how come some enemies in dungeons are the same as ones in caves? Did the King create the Keese too?

They aren't called Monsters. They're specifically called guardians, the bosses are called Guardian Deities (same as MM). All are said to be made by the king. Overworld enemies are referred to as minions or "soldiers from hell", the word in question being rendered as "Dark Realm" in OoX (basically, overworld enemies in AoL come from the same place as Onox and Veran, and presumably the enemies in OoX as well, and Ganon is described as quite literally the ruler of hell in the Japanese NES manuals (or at least it's insinuated to the point of being a statement)). "Monsters" isn't used in AoL's Japanese manual, or really the NES games in general.

Also yes, logically the king based a few guardians here and there on Ganon's army, chiefly the Iron Knuckles which were originally the creations of Twinrova. The manual says they serve the king directly (thus NOT being evil). However we know for a fact the bosses were made pretty directly by the king (meaning the King likely resurrected Volvagia instead of Ganondorf, insinuating Volvagia was never resurrected in AoL's timeline due to Link destroying Volvagia completely in future OoT), and Fokka/Fokkeru seem very strongly related to the Thunderbird, the final guardian aside from Shadow Link. Fokka/Fokkeru also appear EXCLUSIVELY in the final, Grand Palace and NO WHERE ELSE, making the connection to the King much, much stronger (and thus, the Loftwing symbolism sticks even more than it already does. Compounding this is the fact a statue of Hylia appears as an item called "Goddess Statue" in AoL, making BotW's placement of being after AoL all the more plausible)

Also for what it's worth, the Zoras grow to loathe Hylians so much that they eventually become loyal servants of Ganon in the NES games and seek to kill and destroy Hylians. This is insinuated that's where they're going in the series with TP, FSA/ALttP, and ALBW, but the NES games portray Zoras pretty directly as being violent minions of Ganon. PH shows the Zoras that didn't become Rito turned into plain Feral monsters not physically unlike their ALttP/ALBW counterparts.

 

[Amy Lu Minati]

Also for what it's worth, the Zoras grow to loathe Hylians so much that they eventually become loyal servants of Ganon in the NES games and seek to kill and destroy Hylians. This is insinuated that's where they're going in the series with TP, FSA/ALttP, and ALBW, but the NES games portray Zoras pretty directly as being violent minions of Ganon. PH shows the Zoras that didn't become Rito turned into plain Feral monsters not unlike their ALttP/ALBW counterparts.

have we been mixing up Zora and River Zora? What are they in the manual. Zelda 2 is such an abstract game tbh. Everything about it is crazy weird, but if that's what it says in the manual it must be true. :/
Alright I guess. I suppose if all of that logically makes sense to you that the Fokka are the best candidate then roll with it. I would rather it was the Fokka than the Rito because I like the Zora as a species better, and I'd love to see a BOTW Zora, but I still think it's the Rito regardless. But if the King can only create the guardians in the dungeons, if they came out and built their own cultures and stuff and are Kass's race, the king would actually be a god wouldn't he? Can his creations do stuff like that or are they more like Robots? How else would they live in temples all day without food? :/ It's still a little weird.

 

[hwrdjacob]

have we been mixing up Zora and River Zora? What are they in the manual. Zelda 2 is such an abstract game tbh. Everything about it is crazy weird, but if that's what it says in the manual it must be true. :/
Alright I guess. I suppose if all of that logically makes sense to you that the Fokka are the best candidate then roll with it. I would rather it was the Fokka than the Rito because I like the Zora as a species better, and I'd love to see a BOTW Zora, but I still think it's the Rito regardless. But if the King can only create the guardians in the dungeons, if they came out and built their own cultures and stuff and are Kass's race, the king would actually be a god wouldn't he? Can his creations do stuff like that or are they more like Robots? How else would they live in temples all day without food? :/ It's still a little weird.

Well I mean the King and the Royal Family did have the full unbridled might of the Triforce, which made Ganon a literal deity for a time in ALttP before Link claimed the Triforce from Ganon. The Royal Family also had the Triforce shortly after SS.

If the Fokka are the race we see in BotW, they could have easily been made post SS with the Triforce to guard the Royal Family and/or various artifacts. I mean the Shiekah up and vanished, and considering the race seems to be closely connected to them it'd make sense for our little bird friends to get in on the vanishing act with the Shiekah and make like a timeline (and split).

Considering Impa is the one who guards the knowledge of the "long lost" dungeons from the NES games, it's entirely possible the dungeons in both NES games are now supposed to be Shiekah Shrines (hence why you go underground in all of them. Yes I'm including Zelda 2; Link always descends in an elevator, as in BotW, in AoL).

Alternatively, they were made by the king from AoL's manual using the might of the Triforce in his time (rather than repurposing/making more of the older Fokka that don't exist in this possibility).

Making machinations isn't really far fetched since we see random baddies do it very frequently in Zelda, but if it helps you do keep in mind the Royal Family had the full might of the Triforce when the King did all this pre NES games. So for all intents and purposes, yes, the King sort of is a god (but isn't literally one) due to having the full Triforce.

Tl;dr, the Triforce is the most OP piece of **** in the universe and the AoL King can do basically whatever the hell he wants.


As for Zoras, it's made clear by PH, TP, and the 2D games that the Zoras from the 3D games that remained in Hyrule all evolved into the river Zoras, with the catalyst for this evolution strongly alluded to being the Zoras in Hyrule becoming militarized between OoT and TP. ALBW makes this also pretty clear with Oren being descended from Queen Ruto. "Sea" Zoras just outright don't exist any more in Hyrule in the 2D games; there's only one kind of Zora in Hyrule at a time. And the Zoras eventually become so averse to Hylians and apparently distrustful/hateful towards them that they side with Ganon and kill Hylians on sight, going so far as to work towards resurrecting Ganon along with the other legions of hell/the Dark Realm in AoL. I stand by what I said in another thread; a sidequest involving Link having to go into an extremely hostile Zora's Domain (as in ALttP) and finally bring peace between Hylians and Zoras once again would be a pretty amazing sidequest and have Zoras as both enemies and eventual allies in the game.

And yes, they're just "Zoras" in the manual. They're just "Zoras" in every game, 2D or 3D, except for PH and OoX. In PH they're called Zora Warriors and in OoX a distinction between River and Sea Zoras exists, but in Hyrule there's just Zoras since there's only one kind at any given time.

 

[Amy Lu Minati]

Well I mean the King and the Royal Family did have the full unbridled might of the Triforce, which made Ganon a literal deity for a time in ALttP before Link claimed the Triforce from Ganon. The Royal Family also had the Triforce shortly after SS...

Alright, cool insights there my dude. I never really thought about the triforce having the power to create a full new species before, but I suppose it could be possible since it grants desires.
So if i'm right and Kass's race is the Rito, that means if we see Zora, they will probably try to kill us... :/ Dang, that's sad, I love the Zora. It might be nice if it was the Fokka because we could have nice Zora and nice Bird people at the same time. That'd be great. :/ but that still seems less likely to me, we have the presence of Koroks, sea salt left from a great flood and the old man could possibly be the King of Hyrule... I feel like the more obvious fingers point to the Rito and then we have some less obvious fingers pointing at the Fokka. But maybe I'll be surprised.

 

[hwrdjacob]

Alright, cool insights there my dude. I never really thought about the triforce having the power to create a full new species before, but I suppose it could be possible since it grants desires.
So if i'm right and Kass's race is the Rito, that means if we see Zora, they will probably try to kill us... :/ Dang, that's sad, I love the Zora. It might be nice if it was the Fokka because we could have nice Zora and nice Bird people at the same time. That'd be great. :/ but that still seems less likely to me, we have the presence of Koroks, sea salt left from a great flood and the old man could possibly be the King of Hyrule... I feel like the more obvious fingers point to the Rito and then we have some less obvious fingers pointing at the Fokka. But maybe I'll be surprised.

The way it's set up if BotW takes place after AoL, Zoras are going to try to kill you. If it takes place after ST (honestly fat chance at this point tbh), Zoras will try to kill you, and will be tormented feral monsters to boot. Regardless if Rito show up. (At least with BotW being Zelda 3 Zoras are apparently sane and rational and weren't damned by the goddesses lol) and if somehow the game takes place sometime after TP and before ALttP- Zoras will try to kill you. The result of the Zoras in literally every scenario is they become either Rito or common enemies. The only way around that is if BotW's overworld goes beyond Hyrule and into other countries where Sea Zoras exist still. Which honestly I'm hoping for Zoras being enemies with a hostile Zora Domain like in ALttP, because that means Link might have to become a peacekeeper and try to mend old scars with the Zoras- something we've never seen done before by Link, even with the Gerudo- and makes Zoras enemies at first and NPCs later on.

Also the sea salt does not say it comes from a flood. It says it comes from an ancient sea that once covered areas of Hyrule. That makes it much less likely to be a connection to WW and more a connection to AoL that they can milk for a few WW nudges and nods. (The overworld in AoL was covered by a sea an unknown period of time prior to the game's events as we can see in FSA and infer from SS and the GBC games). Nintendo even drew explicit attention to the fact BotW brings back the raft from LoZ and AoL... I also want to point out the old man in BotW looks pretty damn identical to the Old Man Sprite from OoX, which is yet another point for being Zelda 3. Literally the only true, conclusive connection to the AT are the Koroks as it stands, since the "ancient sea once covering the land" can apply equally to the era in AoL and to Post SS. And even then koroks Cameoed in ALBW and can be handwaved by the Deku Tree's death

To be completely fair we're nearly discounting the possibility they'd be Fokkas in everything but name and be a "new" race altogether, lol

 

[Amy Lu Minati]

Also the sea salt does not say it comes from a flood. It says it comes from an ancient sea that once covered areas of Hyrule. That makes it much less likely to be a connection to WW and more a connection to AoL

But if you find the sea salt up on top of the great plateau which isn't really close to the ocean and is really high above sea level, doesn't that infer that there was a flood at some point? :/

 

[DeactivatedUser2]

But if you find the sea salt up on top of the great plateau which isn't really close to the ocean and is really high above sea level, doesn't that infer that there was a flood at some point? :/

There were lots of mountainous regions in AOL's overworld, meaning heights that were much greater than the Great Plateau could have easily been submerged as well.

 

[Delsait]

Come on guys! It's finals week, 3v1 now?

Alright, here is why it can't be the Fokka. The Fokka are monsters which all come from Demise. :/ Why would a monster ever help you without being threatened or by bribing you to leave them alone? (Link's awakening was all a dream, so that Goriya never actually gave you a boomerang because he didn't exist) Can't we all just assume at this point that whatever these bird people are, they are probably from one of the "free peoples" so to speak, of Hylia? Just look at Kass! Is he a monster? The guy has sheet music and he points you in the right direction. They are most likely a species created by Hylia at the least. :/ But maybe people will make peace with some of the bad guys. That just seems unlikely.

Peaceful, and helpful monsters are encountered loads of time.

The Fokka even work directly for the Kingdom of Hyrule, guarding the Triforce of Courage from those who aren't worthy.

 

[Amy Lu Minati]

There were lots of mountainous regions in AOL's overworld, meaning heights that were much greater than the Great Plateau could have easily been submerged as well.

Yeah, could be.

Peaceful, and helpful monsters are encountered loads of time.

The Fokka even work directly for the Kingdom of Hyrule, guarding the Triforce of Courage from those who aren't worthy.

That's yesterdays news... But thanks anyway.

 

[Delsait]

That's yesterdays news... But thanks anyway.

Stalfos are also among the King's guardian forces in Zelda II.

 

[hwrdjacob]

Peaceful, and helpful monsters are encountered loads of time.

The Fokka even work directly for the Kingdom of Hyrule, guarding the Triforce of Courage from those who aren't worthy.

Hyrule seems to be some kind of Empire by that point (Hyrule is not one, but several kingdoms in the NES games for reasons not entirely elaborated; the kingdom where the rest of the series took place is seemingly the area south of Death Mountain in AoL and likewise presumably the setting of NES LoZ), but tomato, Tomato. They work for specifically the King at any rate.

 

[hwrdjacob]

Peaceful, and helpful monsters are encountered loads of time.

The Fokka even work directly for the Kingdom of Hyrule, guarding the Triforce of Courage from those who aren't worthy.

Hyrule seems to be some kind of Empire by that point (Hyrule is not one, but several kingdoms in the NES games for reasons not entirely elaborated; the kingdom where the rest of the series took place is seemingly the area south of Death Mountain in AoL and likewise presumably the setting of NES LoZ), but tomato, Tomato. They work for specifically the King at any rate.

 

[Delsait]

Hyrule seems to be some kind of Empire by that point (Hyrule is not one, but several kingdoms in the NES games for reasons not entirely elaborated; the kingdom where the rest of the series took place is seemingly the area south of Death Mountain in AoL and likewise presumably the setting of NES LoZ), but tomato, Tomato. They work for specifically the King at any rate.

We've also seen stuff like Moblins, and Dodongos side with Link.