Mafia 7: Star Trek - Replacement Thread

[Kybyrian]

Three mafias does seem like a little much... it seems even with me lynching mafia left and right that the town's chances of winning this game are slim to none.

I retract my vote on TreeHuggerPanda. The day was really short. I do expect to hear back from you, though. You said you were reading the thread through.

I love it how I have to constantly spell this out. Claims (of any kind) are good as supplementary evidence, not primary evidence. What is this fascination with entirely circumventing the basic nature of the game (analyzing behavior and reactions) and looking for something that isn't even a natural part of the process?

Better question, is where did we get the notion that it's effective? I can't believe how many times I've had to state this. In Castlevania Mafia, the Town died because of claims. There were more than two cases of completely bull**** claims that were believed. Ultimately, when taken seriously, claims become a distraction. When used as supplementary evidence to an already underway investigation, they can prove useful, but are NOT absolute. Furthermore, there's the problem of fakeclaims. In the presence of those, mass claiming accomplishes little for the Town, as the scum are obviously lying. Yet simultaneously, the scum have everything to gain, as the town reveal all their power roles.



tl;dr: What is wrong with you?

Unvote
Vote: TheGreen

 

[link to present]

Seeing as I'm still in the game, can someone give me a recap on what happen before the other thread disappeared?

 

[Keyshe]

Sorry I haven't been on the last two day been caught up in my garden and had no extra energy to think straight for this thread. I have saved all the cached pages so if/when they ever go down I will upload them so they aren't lost. Though for now I don't want to bother figuring out how to get them uploaded as they are not needed just yet.

I feel I need to say I am not one for the play style tacit of mass claiming as it hurts and goes against the of sprite of Mafia, it takes out the investigation element an put in it's place mass information sharing of PMs. :/


@link to present, ... right now it wouldn't help you much giving a recap you really just need to go through the backup of the thread on your own that HoM linked to it has most of the pages from 1-28. Just copy the first part of the link (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache) and post it onto the ZD url for the other pages. Day three was lost though and basically Kybyrian launched another speed lynch on scum illmatic and the day ended in a very short amount of time with illmatic being the Romulan Godfather. Ky also claimed roleblocker. I can't remember who voted and posted very well though... some didn't even make it into the thread I think. I manged three posts: my shock of the speed-lynch, an evaluation/analysis of illmatic and whining about a speed lynch, and last my surprise by him announcing he was godfather. He also stated his suspicion on who the other mafia team are (people voting on him) and said I seemed scummy to him too. He also suggested/confirmed there was still a Romulan Traitor still alive to keep his team going.

I had thought there was only two mafia groups both with the max three members. With Ky being so uncanny good at finding three of them and the team shrinking fast I was starting to doubt SOl, THP and Ninten were all scum working together. Though this last night shed on things a new light. I had been on SOL, seemed to look off with her tunneling/focus on link to present based only on him defending Jo's worth as a player as scummy. I found it odd much like illmatic's only real suspicion was his original RVS. It comes off odd like a player who is ether not thinking/trying or look scum hunting with out wanting to stand out too much.

I see Ninten* claim eda big name and I am seeing little to no countering of it. Two big names have been pulled out of players who are now prime targets for the remaining scum... which was a bad move and reckless. Ky's not as much as he had already given away his role to lynch a scum. But unless Ninten* is lying he's made a bad move :/ giving into Green's lazy player's peer pressure. Far as we know there is still a doc/bodyguard but that person would only be able to protected one person... :/


Jedizora and THP are my main suspects right now. I'll get some quotes to illustrate why.
There are should be two Klingon's left, one Romulan Traitor and at least two(?) Borg. I'll post then a little later to keep this post from getting too long. Also should we be asking for an extension?:/


Updated scum list and what not:
Town:
Hero of Time(Wesley),
Austin(Deanna/Empath),
Zenox (Data),
Djinn (Town Commuter/Miles O'Brian)

Leaning town:
Kybyrian (Role blocker/Picard), Ninten* (Commander Worf), Axle

Scum:
SoL (Borg)
illmatic (Romulan)
Justeazy (Romulan),
jdenicholls (Klingon)

Leaning scum:
THP, Jedizora

No clue:
MeegoDekuNut, Josh, Green Goron, TheGreen, Durion, link to present, Go_Dark_Link,

 

[dur.i.am]

Sorry I haven't been on the last two day been caught up in my garden and had no extra energy to think straight for this thread. I have saved all the cached pages so if/when they ever go down I will upload them so they aren't lost. Though for now I don't want to bother figuring out how to get them uploaded as they are not needed just yet.

I feel I need to say I am not one for the play style tacit of mass claiming as it hurts and goes against the of sprite of Mafia, it takes out the investigation element an put in it's place mass information sharing of PMs. :/


@link to present, ... right now it wouldn't help you much giving a recap you really just need to go through the backup of the thread on your own that HoM linked to it has most of the pages from 1-28. Just copy the first part of the link (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache) and post it onto the ZD url for the other pages. Day three was lost though and basically Kybyrian launched another speed lynch on scum illmatic and the day ended in a very short amount of time with illmatic being the Romulan Godfather. Ky also claimed roleblocker. I can't remember who voted and posted very well though... some didn't even make it into the thread I think. I manged three posts: my shock of the speed-lynch, an evaluation/analysis of illmatic and whining about a speed lynch, and last my surprise by him announcing he was godfather. He also stated his suspicion on who the other mafia team are (people voting on him) and said I seemed scummy to him too. He also suggested/confirmed there was still a Romulan Traitor still alive to keep his team going.

I had thought there was only two mafia groups both with the max three members. With Ky being so uncanny good at finding three of them and the team shrinking fast I was starting to doubt SOl, THP and Ninten were all scum working together. Though this last night shed on things a new light. I had been on SOL, seemed to look off with her tunneling/focus on link to present based only on him defending Jo's worth as a player as scummy. I found it odd much like illmatic's only real suspicion was his original RVS. It comes off odd like a player who is ether not thinking/trying or look scum hunting with out wanting to stand out too much.

I see Ninten* claim eda big name and I am seeing little to no countering of it. Two big names have been pulled out of players who are now prime targets for the remaining scum... which was a bad move and reckless. Ky's not as much as he had already given away his role to lynch a scum. But unless Ninten* is lying he's made a bad move :/ giving into Green's lazy player's peer pressure. Far as we know there is still a doc/bodyguard but that person would only be able to protected one person... :/


Jedizora and THP are my main suspects right now. I'll get some quotes to illustrate why.
There are should be two Klingon's left, one Romulan Traitor and at least two(?) Borg. I'll post then a little later to keep this post from getting too long. Also should we be asking for an extension?:/


Updated scum list and what not:
Town:
Hero of Time(Wesley),
Austin(Deanna/Empath),
Zenox (Data),
Djinn (Town Commuter/Miles O'Brian)

Leaning town:
Kybyrian (Role blocker/Picard), Ninten* (Commander Worf), Axle

Scum:
SoL (Borg)
illmatic (Romulan)
Justeazy (Romulan),
jdenicholls (Klingon)

Leaning scum:
THP, Jedizora

No clue:
MeegoDekuNut, Josh, Green Goron, TheGreen, Durion, link to present, Go_Dark_Link,

I think it is safe to say that Kybyrian is a townie, as Picard is one of the most important characters to exist in the Star Trek universe to my knowledge. The same goes for Ninten*, Commander Worf is a character that I understand to be rather important to Star Trek. I can at least say that Kybyrian is definitely Town. I don't think many Mafia games would allow a fakeclaim that uses a good power role and a very important character to the theme, as it would be rather unfair to do so.

I've not been very sure about what I think about TheGreen, that attempt to cause a massclaim is both pro-town and pro-mafia in many ways. I was going to vote for THP due to the fact she's been rather this quiet this round, and in my past experience with her she's been quiet whilst she was Mafia. I'll have to think this one over some more before voting.

Also, can we get a date for when this day will end? I don't think I've seen one for this day.

EBWODP

Nevermind, I missed that entirely.

Since the day will be ending today, I'll go ahead and vote.

Vote: TheGreen.

 

[DeletedUser9]

THP is usually inactive in Mafia. I don't see why people are voting for her. But I haven't seen link to present post for a while. Maybe he did and I missed it. But it's hard for me to trace it.

Inactivity is used as a cover, and 90% of the time the Mafia are hidden among the inactives rather than the active players. Again, I'm repeating myself but: If you end up only lynching the "omfg obvious scum" people, you're going to kill off all the active Townies and the Mafia wins. Inactives are almost always more scummy than those who are out in the open.

THP is regularly inactive, yes. That's not always an excuse, but it's relevant here considering how quickly the Days have gone (which needs to stop by the way). That said, my reasons for suspecting her way back at the beginning of the game have nothing to do with her activity. It's because of her weird targeting of... I forget who it was, I think Link to Present, and going as far as putting words in his mouth. It was a weirdly unprovoked attack.

If you combine that with her inactivity, regardless of the reason for it, she winds up being a better lynch than TheGreen, who is certainly scummy at the moment, but I don't think it's smart to lynch him right now; he can be useful if he's Town.

Still, wouldn't that leave us town at a huge disadvantage? I have to agree, it would be too much to have 3 mafias. Anyways, THP doesn't seem very scumish to me, no one really does actually. I am beginning to believe I am too naive...

I've played fairly well balanced games with 3 Mafia before. Usually their number is small, like 2-3 members each. Add two together and you have the size of a normal single Mafia, so no issue. The third Mafia ups the scum number, but remember the scum are now killing each other. It evens out. We're not that bad off.

 

[dur.i.am]

I've played fairly well balanced games with 3 Mafia before. Usually their number is small, like 2-3 members each. Add two together and you have the size of a normal single Mafia, so no issue. The third Mafia ups the scum number, but remember the scum are now killing each other. It evens out. We're not that bad off.

Adding on to that, the fact there are 3 seperate Mafias instead of 1 large one means that if the wincon is a standard wincon, it is much harder to achieve as they will have more people to lynch than the standard Mafia would. For a Mafia of 3 people in this game to win they'd need to kill 15 people including all killing roles that don't belong to their Mafia to win, that is if they don't lose one of their own along the way.

 

[DeletedUser9]

Adding on to that, the fact there are 3 seperate Mafias instead of 1 large one means that if the wincon is a standard wincon, it is much harder to achieve as they will have more people to lynch than the standard Mafia would. For a Mafia of 3 people in this game to win they'd need to kill 15 people including all killing roles that don't belong to their Mafia to win, that is if they don't lose one of their own along the way.

Yeah and then you even have the fact that they don't have any kind of numbers advantage. A full Mafia would probably have about 5-6 people on average, and that's a lot of voting power. Especially if they manage to survive while whittling the Town. With 3 Mafias, their influence is very diminished. Bottom line is we can still pull this off. I'm not saying it's going to be hard, but I will say that it's probably not helping having only about 4 pages of posts in one day. :/



Anyway.

Despite my statements about inactivity, I have also been inactive. I guarantee you I will be around a lot the next Day. That said, since I need to vote for someone, and I don't think TheGreen is a good lynch (yet), I'm going to do this...

Vote: TreeHuggerPanda

EBWODP:

I'm not saying it's going to be hard,

*I'm not saying it isn't going to be hard,

 

[Go_Dark_Link]

Woah just realized I haven't met the post cuota. Anyways, at what time is the day ending? And could we get a formal vote count? I believe there is a tie between THP and TheGreen with 2 votes each, but I'm not sure. Again, there hasn't been that many posts, so I can't make up my mind on who is scum and who isn't. Once HoM answers the when exactly the day is ending I will choose whether to vote or not. So for now, yeah.

 

[green goron]

I agree Jedi is suspcious and both of his post of the day contain nothing but complaining of there being three mafias and saying who Jake and David are. Ky roleblocked him the past few nights and the last two nights only had one kill go through.

Wait. We have 3 Mafia's then? (Borg, Kingon, and Romulan) That is rather annoying.

Jake is thegreen, David is hero of music.

Still, wouldn't that leave us town at a huge disadvantage? I have to agree, it would be too much to have 3 mafias. Anyways, THP doesn't seem very scumish to me, no one really does actually. I am beginning to believe I am too naive...

It's not a big disadvantage. The scum all together is 9 now 6. That would leave about 11 town. All 3 mafias are trying to kill each other so mafia will want to lynch and nightkill other mafia. That helps us out. I pretty sure mafia nightkilled SoL since they found her scummy and want to get rid of the other mafias.

Axle's opinion on inactivities is true and since jden and Justeazy were scum and active I recon the rest are inactivities except for maybe 1.

Mass roleclaiming is a bad idea since it narrows down the list of targets for the mafia. THP is always inactive but if she is town or scum I think she will be inactive. The thing that makes her scummy is that she doesn't contribute and went after Link trying to make him suspicious over nothing when others agreed with him.

VOTE:Treehuggerpanda

 

[Keyshe]

@Durion,
I agree with you that Ky is very, very likely town, he's got a role and a name + pro-town behavior to back it all up. I'll be shocked if he isn't. I just didn't put him under as town, as it's not confirmed.

@Go_Dark_Link,
The day is ending some time today, any time in fact. I can get you an unofficial tally --
THP-3 (Josh, Axle, green goron)
The Green-2 (Kybyrian, Durion)
Keyshe-1 (TheGreen)

Jedizora and THP are my main suspects right now. I'll get some quotes to illustrate why.

Okay here they are as promised:

]I'd like to point you to this post of THP's --(#267 page 18)--. Look at what she says, nowhere does she indicate any scummy connotations but talks about a implied intention on LoP's part that wasn't in his posts; And goes on that trusting and not trying to play on your own is a bad play. Her suspicions are personal opinion, or she is scum being manipulative. Go look at her first post against LoP--(#13 page 1)--. . Same tone and intention. I also recommended you look at Axle's vote and his response to her--(#265, #269 page 18)--. They echo what I've been saying for a while now about her and SoL.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...showthread.php?20817-Mafia-7-Star-Trek/page18
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c.../forum/showthread.php?20817-Mafia-7-Star-Trek
(Links for the lazy)
THP has acted like SOL in thread, neither of them suspected each another and both have done little to no scum hunting.

I think you're being a tad rash, although, not as rash as HoT. Someone already mentioned that HoT probably could have claimed to clear his name early on, seeing as, due to his scummy meta, he always seems to be lynched early on. I don't know whether that is true or not, just as I wouldn't cross off the possibility that it is a clever ruse being pulled on HoT's part (see WIFOM).

I believe you. You aren't the type to claim under no circumstances and make a bold move like this with no pressure on you (well, in Mafia 6, you cracked under pressure and role claimed Jack-of-all-trades... I really wanted to slap you across the face then >_<). It's possible that you are scum with a scum name claim, but I'm not going to dwell upon that just yet.

THP did make a small analysis post on page 27 post #396 however it was light and didn't seem very thought out.

And there is this from this day:

I would like to make a comment on Kybyrian and on his effectiveness on his scum hunting. It's interesting that he's been targeting (from what I can recall) illmatic and Justeazy, who were both Romulans/scum. And Kyby, would you mind if you post a list of people you've roleblocked?

(Never minding that Ky is the closest thing we have to a confirmed town.) While I don't think this is the worst observation she could have made and could be legitimate, I think it also looks like what illy tried on Ky subtly putting doubt and scummy connotations on Ky. It wouldn't mean much alone but adding it with my other suspicions and what not, I don't feel too strong on her being town.

-------------------------

3 pages? Already? Since HoT already claimed, After not even a igmeoy on him, I don't belive him.
Vote: HoT

Claiming early hasn't really ever turned out to be scummy, let alone claiming something believable. Though the real issues here was this:

Actually, its my twisted version of a RVS. In the first few pages, find the most unusual thing that someone does, and vote for that person.Claiming that early, well, Isn't that usual.

The above vote looked somewhat serious, but right after he said (when confronted by Ky with something that seemed off) that is was only a RVS.

Unusual doesn't make it scum.

Note this and the bold Jedi quote.

Its A RVS. Does it have to follow the rules of Random.org? Or can I use my own way?

Jedi seems to be trying too hard to defend that it was an RVS. From he had something scummy to vote for then to being an RVS, back to the claim was odd, right back to it being an RVS when Ky said it wasn't scummy.

I don't have alot to go on, and for all we know they could have been masons.
Vote: Djinn

He voted loosely out of the blue on little, not too scummy for him however I remember he clearly said day 3 (lost as well as my addressing this) that was just to make 3 posts. There was other things he could have posted then to make a un-serious vote that causes confusion. Adding that with his other posts and inactive behavior he leans scum to me.

Other then those quotes Zedi has been inactive or saying he has nothing to say really... :/

Vote:THP
I have little opinion on the Green right now, he's been inactive and and carefree not too serious with the game. Vote wise it's as I've seen from him as town. Going with his own suspicions first not really bandwagoning. Given I never seen his scum meta other then that one time as serial killer.

EBWODP: Wow... so sorry for how long that post was... T_T (Getting my third post in here.) This day has gone rather slow I am sorry for my own in-activeness that contribute, to this but you guys are starting to scare me. Some of you if you don't get in here and post I do think there are modkills in order D: Jedizora, Go_Dark_Link, TreeHuggerPanda, link to present,

 

[Go_Dark_Link]

Oh I'm still missing one post? Well anyways, just here to reach the limit. Oh and, may I ask why everyone posts suspicions on Jedizora? Yet everyone is voting for THP? I was just wondering...

 

[Ninten*]

TheGreen, why exactly were you asking people to roleclaim? The Mafia could obviously just lie about it. Maybe to weed out all of the power roles.
VOTE: TheGreen
btw, for those who don't know, you don't need a fake claim from the game mod. You can just come up with one yourselfself.

 

[Keyshe]

Ah I can't speak for others but I had to pick from one or the other and I thought I had a little more on THP.

With Ninten making the vote even... there will be no lynch unless some one come in here or changes their mind.

EBWODP: wait no, it's 4 to 3 never mind :/ God I'm out of it...

 

[Ninten*]

EBWODP:
Unofficial Vote Tally:
TreeHuggerPanda (4)-Josh, Axle, green goron, Keyshe
TheGreen (2)- Kybyrian, Durion, Ninten*
Keyshe (1)-TheGreen
Yet to vote:
TreeHuggerPanda
link to present
DekuNut
Go_Dark_Link
Jedizora
Did I miss anyone? I thought we might need it just in case.

EBWODP: Dammit! I made a mistake. I'm a failure at vote tallying.
THP-4
TheGreen-3
Keyshe-1

 

[Keyshe]

No that looks right, unless there are any special roles in play that should be correct. Thanks Nin.