It's not really Ganondorf

[ThatCat]

Back to my “Demise wants the Triforce of POWER” theory.

Ganondorf from the start was destined to be the manifestation of Demise’s hatred. Unless that curse is broken Ganondorf will always be evil.

 

[Pokémaniac13]

Ganondorf from the start was destined to be the manifestation of Demise’s hatred. Unless that curse is broken Ganondorf will always be evil.

It isn’t that he HAS to be good. It is that he COULD be good.

 

[DJ Twitch]

So you think taking over Hyrule is A GOOD IDEA, huh? By any chance would you be the BotW 2 villain, because we have all been DYING to meet you and your friends, and it sounds like you enjoy tyranny and the like.

End joke.

Well, Ganondorf was a villain long before they came up with the Hyrule envy thing, so... yeah I think he's correct.

The way I see it, the real problem with Ganondorf's monologue at the end of WW was that it could have been a decent character motive. To my knowledge, however, it was never brought up again in any following game; it seemed like a quick line that could have been cut out as easily as it was thrown in.

 

[ThatCat]

It isn’t that he HAS to be good. It is that he COULD be good.

Not unless the curse was broken

 

[Pokémaniac13]

Well, Ganondorf was a villain long before they came up with the Hyrule envy thing, so... yeah I think he's correct.

The way I see it, the real problem with Ganondorf's monologue at the end of WW was that it could have been a decent character motive. To my knowledge, however, it was never brought up again in any following game; it seemed like a quick line that could have been cut out as easily as it was thrown in.

It wasn’t needed in any other game. Or, perhaps, his motivations were the TRUE reason for the timeline split.

 

[ThatCat]

It wasn’t needed in any other game. Or, perhaps, his motivations were the TRUE reason for the timeline split.

The timeline split has nothing to do with ganon‘s motivations, it was Zelda’s decision to send Link back in time to relive his childhood. And if your talking about the downfall timeline, that is most likely a seperate universe

 

[Pokémaniac13]

The timeline split has nothing to do with ganon‘s motivations, it was Zelda’s decision to send Link back in time to relive his childhood. And if your talking about the downfall timeline, that is most likely a seperate universe

Unless it is both, leading to a fourth timeline. Notice how Ganondorf isn’t in Phantom Hourglass or Spirit Tracks.

 

[ThatCat]

Unless it is both, leading to a fourth timeline. Notice how Ganondorf isn’t in Phantom Hourglass or Spirit Tracks.

Ganondorf isn’t in PH and ST because the Hero of Winds killed him and Ganondorf got washed under the ocean.

 

[DJ Twitch]

It wasn’t needed in any other game. Or, perhaps, his motivations were the TRUE reason for the timeline split.

I disagree. Ganondorf's desire to take over Hyrule because of the more hospitable conditions came before OoT; his inital motivation should be consistent regardless of the timeline.

 

[Pokémaniac13]

But the point is there is still evil, so perhaps the curse is manifesting itself elsewhere.

 

[Pokémaniac13]

I disagree. Ganondorf's desire to take over Hyrule because of the more hospitable conditions came before OoT; his inital motivation should be consistent regardless of the timeline.

Yeah, I know. I just wanted to say something thought provoking.

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

Where's the point of him suddenly turning good just for the sake of changing something? It is actually the very contrast from good writing of an antagonist, it is very bad writing. Just like you can't make Joker good, there are clearly levels to Ganondorf's nature as well. Sure, you can flesh his character out much more by giving him more motives, thoughts, screentime and so on. But turning a total 180° on his villainous side is nothing interesting. It seems like huge fanfiction tbh.

As for the "Evil because evil isn't interesting" is a statement which takes out the complete context of Ganondorf's entire characteristic. The eternal circle of hatred and evil incarnation, the latest version being Calamity Ganon, a hateful force of nature, works so well because Ganondorf is the perfect representation of the source of evil. Making him good destroys this very important portrayal of the biggest and most important antagonist of the Zelda series. Heck, his malice KILLED almost everyone Link and Zelda dearly loved! Think about this one...

Using Ganon's evil for being evil's sake to justify Ganon's lack of characterization is just using one bad characterization to justify another. Ganon is never given time to be anything other than a scary piece of cardboard menacing Link from atop a tall tower. You can write a character to be a villain while also giving them motivation outside of grr-I'm-the-bad-guy.

 

[Sentinel]

no one was asking for him to suddenly go from evil to good like a light switch, it was the idea of ganondorf not being evil anymore that seemed to bother you so much

This Ganondorf is the most malicious one of the entire series; so him turning good would mean that Ganondorf gets rid of every single negative emotion or malicious intent which was built so far - that's the thing which bothers me. It just doesn't go along with his entire portrayal throughout the series. Demise' curse is for all evil being the incarnation of his hatred as the japanese translation highlighted this. Getting rid of the curse means that you're getting rid of the entire monsters and enemies too, and I doubt the entire Zelda timeline ends with BotW2 tbh.

The monologue at the end of Wind Waker described how he wanted his people to live in a better environment. How would you feel if you lived in Gerudo desert? He just wanted those around him to be happy. But thanks to Demise’s curse, it become somewhat of a revolt. Revolts are frowned upon. Ganondorf gets labeled as evil, but really, I think, Denise was using Ganondorf as a vessel to get to the Triforce of Power. Then, he becomes strong enough to change Ganondorf’s physical appearanc, and Ganon is born.

That is just one of the reasons he wanted to rule over Hyrule. You forgot how Ganondorf dictated his own people to obey him? Because he wanted to control them and he did. Naboru was one of the few trying to disobey him but if it wasn't for Link, she would be still a slave to the Twinrova. Besides, do you think Ganondorf would be fine with the way how the Gerudo are currently living? Look how this folk managed to live in harmony with the Hylia without being a Ganondorf.
All in all, this is just extra fuel for Ganondorf's villainous intentions and it is definitely something I enjoyed seeing since it fleshed his character out much more. But it is not really a hint that Ganondorf can be turned good.

First of all, Demise is dead. His hatred is the source of the existing evil - and Ganondorf is a product of this hatred.
Secondly, I fail to see how this curse can be entirely broken, judging from the japanese that the hatred incarnation isn't just about Ganondorf but also about all other monsters, his army after all. And Ganondorf is the successor of Demise but he is a character of his own.

 

[Pokémaniac13]

Hence the whole “Demise is controlling me” bit. I think you are forgetting that Demise is sealed away. Not TECHNICALLY dead. But also living through Malice.

 

[Sentinel]

Using Ganon's evil for being evil's sake to justify Ganon's lack of characterization is just using one bad characterization to justify another. Ganon is never given time to be anything other than a scary piece of cardboard menacing Link from atop a tall tower. You can write a character to be a villain while also giving them motivation outside of grr-I'm-the-bad-guy.

So we're coming closer to an agreement. I agree that Ganondorf really needs to be fleshed out much more to be a more interesting antagonist, although I doubt it will satisfy your expectations. However, seeing more of a side of him of which we actually see whole reasonings besides "I'm doing it cuz I'm evil" is already the correct start. Who knows, we might see pieces of this direction in the sequel?

Bold part: Better than grr-I'm-the-bad-guy-but-since-you-lifted-my-curse-I'm-good-now-yeaaah