Item-Based Dungeons: A Tired Concept?

[Beauts]

I think that item-based dungeons are good as long as they incorporate some kind of strategy to do with said item. Also when subsequent dungeons still require items in previous dungeons in order to get through, it makes it more worthwhile as then no items are made redundant later on. I don't think the idea detracts from the game though because it gives you something to do that isn't just go in, kill boss, the end. It means you have a reason to explore.

 

[hylianordonlink]

You gave me an idea. The boss isn't the end of the dungeon. Similar thing was done at the end of Oot but you still have the REAL final boss to fight so it didn't really do it. What if the bane starts with a dungeon kill boss and leave,but the next is solve dungeon,kill boss,and have something happen,like link gets trapped underground and must escape?

 

[Tearbender]

I always thought Skyward Sword really improved on this as dungeons and many areas require you to use many of your items. Not just the slingshot/bow, hookshot. But many of ur items like the whip, beetle, blower, were used well. Dungeons implemented this pretty well.

 

[Ventus]

Item-based dungeons indeed are a tired concept. I myself do not know the reasoning behind fixating an entire dungeon on the usage of one measly item. Heck, it could be three items and I still wouldn't like it. A dungeon is supposed to be a test of all of your skills, from exploration to sword-play to magic-use to item-use. Not just one thing.

Another thing is that items shouldn't be one trick ponies. There shouldn't be a switch that says "shoot an arrow at me; it's the only way forward". There should be multiple applications to any one item, some having augmented effects in certain situations as compared to others, so as to promote scavenging your own arsenal. All of these things apply to dungeons because, face it, there's ALWAYS some kind of switch in a position that forces you to whip out that one specific item whether it's the Beetle, the Whip, the Bow, the Bombs etc. :I

 

[ZeldaFan11235]

I don't mind that dungeons use their items to an extent, but I do wish that they would use the other items from other dungeons too. There are a lot of items that I really like, but once you get out of that item's dungeon, you don't really ever use that item again.

 

[RegalBryant]

If the Spinner didn't have a dungeon for it, then it would have been nearly useless.

 

[JuicieJ]

If the Spinner didn't have a dungeon for it, then it would have been nearly useless.

Which is one reason it was a terrible item. Items should have practical use in situations besides the dungeons they're found in, which is something Twilight Princess in general failed at tremendously.

 

[Spirit]

I may be in the minority when I say this but i prefer the dungeons in Zelda to be based around the one item that you find in there. Now, I didn't always feel like this until i played SS. Dungeons like the Fire Sanctuary really annoyed me in SS because they felt empty and without character or focus, it took me a while to realise why this was but it was because the dungeon didn't have a gameplay theme. Dungeons like the Fire Sanctuary were just mix and match puzzles from everywhere else that stumbled through without focus. dungeons like Snowpeak Ruins in TP had great focus with the ball and chain which not only took down walls but enemies an made the dungeon a lot of fun, The Wind Temple in WW with the Deku Leaf was also a lot of fun to experience and of course the double Hookshots in The City in The Sky in TP was also a lot of fun. Without an item to be used in a dungeon i feel as if the dungeons begin to lack character and focus, the puzzles begin to feel out of place and even more repetitive than usual because there are no new ways to go about them.
So I for one would like to see the trend to continue.

 

[RegalBryant]

Which is one reason it was a terrible item. Items should have practical use in situations besides the dungeons they're found in, which is something Twilight Princess in general failed at tremendously.

The Spinner wasn't a terrible item, the game was just terrible at utilizing it correctly.

 

[Blu Ray]

I may be in the minority when I say this but i prefer the dungeons in Zelda to be based around the one item that you find in there. Now, I didn't always feel like this until i played SS. Dungeons like the Fire Sanctuary really annoyed me in SS because they felt empty and without character or focus, it took me a while to realise why this was but it was because the dungeon didn't have a gameplay theme. Dungeons like the Fire Sanctuary were just mix and match puzzles from everywhere else that stumbled through without focus. dungeons like Snowpeak Ruins in TP had great focus with the ball and chain which not only took down walls but enemies an made the dungeon a lot of fun, The Wind Temple in WW with the Deku Leaf was also a lot of fun to experience and of course the double Hookshots in The City in The Sky in TP was also a lot of fun. Without an item to be used in a dungeon i feel as if the dungeons begin to lack character and focus, the puzzles begin to feel out of place and even more repetitive than usual because there are no new ways to go about them.
So I for one would like to see the trend to continue.

I have no idea why an dungeon focusing on one specific item is a good thing, that isn't, It grealty harms the puzzle making them easier then what they're supposed to be. An item shouldn't be extremely useful in one dungeon, It should be extremely useful for the whole game, make It required for multiple dungeons/sidequests, Twilight Princess failed at doing that, terribly, as people already have mentioned.

 

[Curmudgeon]

Item-based dungeons indeed are a tired concept. I myself do not know the reasoning behind fixating an entire dungeon on the usage of one measly item. Heck, it could be three items and I still wouldn't like it. A dungeon is supposed to be a test of all of your skills, from exploration to sword-play to magic-use to item-use. Not just one thing.

Another thing is that items shouldn't be one trick ponies. There shouldn't be a switch that says "shoot an arrow at me; it's the only way forward". There should be multiple applications to any one item, some having augmented effects in certain situations as compared to others, so as to promote scavenging your own arsenal. All of these things apply to dungeons because, face it, there's ALWAYS some kind of switch in a position that forces you to whip out that one specific item whether it's the Beetle, the Whip, the Bow, the Bombs etc. :I

I had suggested in another thread that a future Zelda could incorporate the concept of variable equipment found in OoS and OoA (eg Roc's feather vs Roc's cape). Based on the types of gear you chose throughout the game, it might radically affect how you tackle problems. It would also give the game a certain level of replay value going back through and trying various combinations.

The Spinner wasn't a terrible item, the game was just terrible at utilizing it correctly.

Outside of the boss fight anyway. I thought that was tremendously fun.

 

[JuicieJ]

I have no idea why an dungeon focusing on one specific item is a good thing, that isn't, It grealty harms the puzzle making them easier then what they're supposed to be. An item shouldn't be extremely useful in one dungeon, It should be extremely useful for the whole game, make It required for multiple dungeons/sidequests, Twilight Princess failed at doing that, terribly, as people already have mentioned.

When used in a very formulamatic and predictable way, yes, but it's actually possible for a dungeon to revolve around an item and be really good. Case and point, the Goron Mines. Funny that my example is coming from a game that used items in a very formulamatic and predictable way, but it's true. The Iron Boots and Bow flowed seamlessly with the dungeon's design, which made taking them out not feel forced. They weren't used that well after that, yeah -- good job calling that out, by the way -- but my point is it's absolutely possible for a item-based dungeons to be great. They just need to be scarce and fluent with the rest of the gameplay.

 

[Terminus]

If this got axed it would make it a bit more challenging since you wouldn't be as certain what to use. Besides, the Girahim fights showed us we don't need to use the dungeon item for the boss fight.

In all honesty, I'd like to see something like the bombs, where they get prominently featured in their dungeon but still get used a LOT.

 

[Ventus]

I had suggested in another thread that a future Zelda could incorporate the concept of variable equipment found in OoS and OoA (eg Roc's feather vs Roc's cape). Based on the types of gear you chose throughout the game, it might radically affect how you tackle problems. It would also give the game a certain level of replay value going back through and trying various combinations.

That's...a surprisingly great idea that i haven't thought of before. I never noticed the varying uses of the Feather versus the Cape, only that the Cape had longer range on average. Hah, and I love the Oracle games ;p

Heck, that concept could even be applied to the Upgrade System in a way; if you upgrade certain items, puzzles get switched around and possibly even harder than they usually are. This wouldn't be too hard of a concept to grasp; if you level up in an RPG, you can stay in your starting area where it's easy-breezy, but things WILL get harder as you venture out into the higher level areas, right?