Is the reliance on Cel Shading dampening series sales?

[Spirit]

The Cel Shading probay has very little to do with the sales of the series (thats down to hardware sales).

But i know a lot of people who still hate the Wind Waker despite it being a solid Zelda game. I know a lot of people who were hard on Skyward Sword (because it sucked) but some of the people who complain about these games are people who never played the games because of the way they looked...

I cant help but think if those two games looked more like OoT and TP, that more people would have played them and been less critical.

Now BoTW is coming and im seeing the same thing happen, a lot of people i know just dont care because they have Skyrim and Witcher 3, Zelda seems to be lesser because of the way it looks (and because Nintendo?).

I cant help but imagine if the last 3 3d Zelda games looked like Witcher that there'd be a lot more interest (outside of those of us who know its going to be a high quality product regardless of visual style).

What say you?

 

[Feverish]

Having a Zelda be as realistic as it can would be great, and I think interest would be really high. A lot of the popular games are trying to be super realistic, but then again, quite a few of them weren't too great. *cough* tomb raider and uncharted *cough*

 

[BoxTar]

Now BoTW is coming and im seeing the same thing happen, a lot of people i know just dont care because they have Skyrim and Witcher 3, Zelda seems to be lesser because of the way it looks (and because Nintendo?).

I think "and because Nintendo" is the bigger factor rather than graphics, honestly, but I'll get to that in a sec.

I think the cel shaded graphics look fine. They suit the kind of game that Zelda is. And if graphics are the thing that's keeping you away from video games, then I dunno what to say. Its just silly. I mean, no, the game shouldn't look like garbage or have prehistoric N64 graphics, but if its presentable and doesn't make your eyes bleed or flash lights or whatever, then its fine.

Now as for the Nintendo stigma...that's always sorta been there. Its always been the "Nintendo is the babby game company. They only make babby games. I dont wanna play babby games cuz ___". Its really ****ing stupid, but its the way its been since gaming got its foothold. Hell, its been that way ever since Sega got involved and threw its hat into the arena. Of course, this is a completely different topic entirely, but I feel like cel shaded graphics and the "babby game" stigma tie in directly. People link "babby games" with brighter, more colorful graphics. Kinda like a cartoon. So they see it and go "ugh, no thanks, I'm gonna play something that was made for ADULTS, tyvm."

Is it a stupid attitude? Yes. Yes it is. Now if its an argument about immersion and not being able to actively get involved into the game because of how it looks, now THAT can be an interesting topic to debate and dissect. But as for the game looking different and more stylistic, or more "babbyish", and not playing it for that? Weak, weak argument.

 

[Dio]

The Cel Shading probay has very little to do with the sales of the series (thats down to hardware sales).

But i know a lot of people who still hate the Wind Waker despite it being a solid Zelda game. I know a lot of people who were hard on Skyward Sword (because it sucked) but some of the people who complain about these games are people who never played the games because of the way they looked...

I cant help but think if those two games looked more like OoT and TP, that more people would have played them and been less critical.

Now BoTW is coming and im seeing the same thing happen, a lot of people i know just dont care because they have Skyrim and Witcher 3, Zelda seems to be lesser because of the way it looks (and because Nintendo?).

I cant help but imagine if the last 3 3d Zelda games looked like Witcher that there'd be a lot more interest (outside of those of us who know its going to be a high quality product regardless of visual style).

What say you?

I agree if the new Zelda looked more like Witcher there would be more interest and had SS looked like TP more people would have experienced the ****ty feeling from playing it.

I dont know why the Zelda team dont often cater to the mainstream in terms of the way their games looks but I am certain their sales suffer as a result.

 

[Zora the Greek]

And long may it continue! I love the Zelda games because of what they are. Changing the games to look like other games? On one side would be cries of "selling out" and on the other side cries of "too little, too late."

 

[Terminalprp]

I think it depends on the audience. Like, old school Zelda fans probably don't care because 1) new Zelda and that's what matters and 2) Cel-shading just hardens back to other classics like ALTTP in the sense of cartoony graphics (they didn't have a choice then but that didn't make it a bad game in the slightest). Newer fans who are used to super realistic games on other consoles are the ones probably against it. But idk, to me Nintendo thrives as the one with whimsy, be it graphics or the stories within the games, and that always engaged me way more than realistic looking games with no real substance.

 

[AncientPoe]

Well, when you think about it the Zelda series has been a bit of an odd beast since its inception. As avid fans, we're all well aware of Miyamoto's Western influences when creating the game, from Peter Pan to the wife of famed American author F. Scott Fitzgerald. Additionally, many of its locations and monsters are taken from decidedly non-asian sources as well: European looking dragons for bosses like Aquamentus and Gleeok, roving Darknuts and Armos Statues modeled from Western armor, the use of sword and shield weapons instead of katanas, decidedly western-style fairies in place of something more traditionally Japanese like Kami... it seems the early entires in the series had a lot of Western aesthetics. So on its face, the series looks like something that would be more popular with Western audiences.

However, in recent years they began to bring the cartoony look to their games and thus they started to alienate Western audiences in general and American ones in particular, because as a whole our culture looks much less favorably on cartoons as a serious medium of expression and entertainment in adulthood. This perspective is of course shifting, but not fast enough. Consequently, you see a drop in sales in the west for the games that look "kiddy". That is not to say that Japanese sales outpace those in NA and PAL regions, but the percentages shift in terms of who is buying what and where. Nowhere is this more evident than in the comparison between Skyward Sword's and Twilight Princess' sales figures. Skyward Sword sold approximately 2.03 million copies in the US and 1.16 million in Europe, compared to only about .37 million in Japan. But if you drop the cel shading and look at Twilight Princess, those numbers* shoot up to 3.74, 2.13, and .6 million copies sold for the US, Europe, and Japan regions, respectively. And while those numbers seem to show that people don't seem to go for cel shading as much as more realistic graphics, I'd just like to point out that Japan made up a slightly higher percentage of the consumer base for SS as it did for TP, consisting of roughly 9.3% of Skyward's worldwide sales, but only about 8% of Twilight Princess's.

*sales figures for Wii version only, I could not find a regional breakdown that incorporated both Wii and GCN figures

One last thing worth pointing out is this graph.

It shows the comparison of consoles/units sold, or rather, what percentage of console owners bought a copy of the game. You can see that Twilight Princess dominates Skyward Sword in reach, as both the Gamecube and Wii versions sold to a higher percentage of that console's user base.

So in closing, not only would it seem that yes, cel shading does hurt the sales figures, but the popularity of the console doesn't appear to factor in (as you suggested it did) because both Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess were essentially playing on the same field (the Wii).

I suppose the most interesting question for Breath of the Wild will be "do people consider this cel shading?" Or rather, will people that tend to discriminate against 'cel shaded' games decide that this gouache art style trumps the more realistic proportions, grand imagery, blooming explosions, and more dangerous pacing seen so far in BotW in terms of whether or not they perceive this upcoming iteration as "cartoony" and therefor hold it in disdain?

 

[Guest-2]

Bottom line yes there're killing sales but I wish they wouldn't.

 

[Castle]

If BotW's sales figures establish a pattern, then I think we can safely say 'yes'. But yeah, if the last two cel games are any indication then the style does hurt sales.

 

[CrimsonCavalier]

I think it does, and it's stupid. Anyone who has watched a good animated film, or a solid anime like Cowboy Bebop knows that the look of the thing doesn't necessarily give you an indication of the quality of the thing. And the sad thing is that I was among those people that didn't care for The Wind Waker's look at first, but after playing it, I was completely sold. It was and is a gorgeous game, and especially in HD.

That said, there can be a balance. If you look at Xenoblade X, something it did well was mix anime-esque character design with "realistic" world design, and I think it worked. For all my complaints about that game, the game is incredibly stunning in the visual department.

That said, it shouldn't make a difference. People should be intelligent enough—and mature enough—to be able to enjoy a game notwithstanding the art style.

 

[Guest-2]

Cp

I think it does, and it's stupid. Anyone who has watched a good animated film, or a solid anime like Cowboy Bebop knows that the look of the thing doesn't necessarily give you an indication of the quality of the thing. And the sad thing is that I was among those people that didn't care for The Wind Waker's look at first, but after playing it, I was completely sold. It was and is a gorgeous game, and especially in HD.

That said, there can be a balance. If you look at Xenoblade X, something it did well was mix anime-esque character design with "realistic" world design, and I think it worked. For all my complaints about that game, the game is incredibly stunning in the visual department.

That said, it shouldn't make a difference. People should be intelligent enough—and mature enough—to be able to enjoy a game notwithstanding the art style.

Couldn't have said it better myself. It's also nice to see a fuzzy pickles on these boards.

 

[Inujake7]

The Cel Shading probay has very little to do with the sales of the series (thats down to hardware sales).

But i know a lot of people who still hate the Wind Waker despite it being a solid Zelda game. I know a lot of people who were hard on Skyward Sword (because it sucked) but some of the people who complain about these games are people who never played the games because of the way they looked...

I cant help but think if those two games looked more like OoT and TP, that more people would have played them and been less critical.

Now BoTW is coming and im seeing the same thing happen, a lot of people i know just dont care because they have Skyrim and Witcher 3, Zelda seems to be lesser because of the way it looks (and because Nintendo?).

I cant help but imagine if the last 3 3d Zelda games looked like Witcher that there'd be a lot more interest (outside of those of us who know its going to be a high quality product regardless of visual style).

What say you?

Skyward Sword sucks? You meanie! It's one of my favorites! But to be serious, I remember being in GameStop before Skyward Sword came out and asking an employee if they were excited for it and they told me no, because they didn't like the art style and to that day they had still not played Wind Waker.

 

[CM30]

Kind of.

I'd say people were more tolerant of it with Wind Waker, cause it was seen as an interesting change for the series.

However, I feel have similar graphics in Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks and (arguably) Skyward Sword then kind of put people off. You had an art style that was very divisive, then had it reused to hell and back within the franchise, and even more so if you count some of the later handheld games and Four Swords Adventures as taking inspiration from said style.

Either way, I think it'd be good if they let cel shading go away for a few generations or so.

 

[Spamomanospam]

I'll be honest, I don't care as much for the cel shaded art as it appears in Breath of the Wild and Skyward Sword. I think it suits the style of Wind Waker and the like, since Toon Link's aesthetically more suited to it, I think. I don't hate the art direction for the last couple games, by I would have rather seen it in an art style akin to Twilight Princess. I loved the more realistic take on Zelda, and I thought it fit the world of Hyrule incredibly well as it was presented in that game. I think Toon Link fits one style and the semi realistic Link fits another. Combining them is where I get my beef. That said, I actually liked Skyward Sword and am incredibly excited for Breath of the Wild. Personally I don't let the art style ruin a game for me, I'd rather at least see if it's fun and unique before judging it, and the Zelda series has always kept my attention for those reasons.

 

[Adventurer of Hyrule]

I dont think so, but i would like to see a different direction for the next game. Skyward Sword is a gorgeous looking game, as is Wind Waker, those visual styles may not appeal do certain demographics, but thats ok.. normally people who don't play games just because they are not hyper realistic are not really appreciatively of the brilliance of these games. I say this because i have close friends who are like this, regrettably.