Is the Master Sword Zonai made?

[Ashley the Witch]

There's a problem with your last point, we don't ever see the Master Sword, we only see the transformation of the Goddess Sword into the Master Sword. We also don't know the time in which the Goddess Sword was created. The Master Sword and in turn the Goddess Sword was made with the help of the Ancient Sages, Rauru could have easily been alive to help create the Goddess Sword, and still be the first King of Hyrule. His life span as a Sage has survived through millennias at this point.

Then I believe we have a misunderstanding here, I wasn't talking about who forged the Master Sword, I was talking about who made the material that ended up becoming the Master Sword, i.e the Goddess Sword. We know it was Hylia, along with the Ancient Sages, It's not unreasonable to assume Rauru is involved in that development. He is a very important figure in Hyrule's history, Not only as the first King of Hyrule, but also as an ancient Sage who played a huge part in a lot of Hyrule's history.

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

Then I believe we have a misunderstanding here, I wasn't talking about who forged the Master Sword, I was talking about who made the material that ended up becoming the Master Sword, i.e the Goddess Sword. We know it was Hylia, along with the Ancient Sages, It's not unreasonable to assume Rauru is involved in that development. He is a very important figure in Hyrule's history, Not only as the first King of Hyrule, but also as an ancient Sage who played a huge part in a lot of Hyrule's history.

Fair enough. It can't really be said whether or not the metal from which the Master Sword was forged has any sort of ties to the Zonai, just that the forging of the blade itself didn't involve anything goat adjacent.

 

[Ryuu Kage Desu]

But the game treats the blades as distinct entities. It isn't the Master Sword until it's finished, it's the Goddess Sword.

I would suggest that the Goddess Sword is more of an unfinished Master Sword. The abilities do not change, only get built upon. Fi is also the literal spirit/user-interface of the blade, and she does not change. The core of the weapon was there to begin with, and the part we see in SS is the final tempering process.

We know for a fact that Rauru was the first king of Hyrule because he says it in Tears of the Kingdom. Hyrule's a pretty specific name.

I am completely fine with this, and I also agree that the name is very specific, like the name originated from an important person. The very individual, in fact, that the nation in the past of Skyward Sword was centered around; much in the same way that we see it in later games.

1) The Zonai aren't in Skyward Sword even though they would be active act that time.

If we see evidence of activity, we don't need to see the individuals.

2) Rauru just straight up says he's the first king of Hyrule, a kingdom not established until after Skyward Sword.. To assume he's talking about some other Hyrule in the way distant is to write fanfiction. There's nothing wrong with it, but it's fanfiction.

Theories other than yours are not "fanfiction." Saying it like that is basically an insult. When insults are thrown out, it generally means that the point is empty. Unfortunately, this is an empty point; for two reasons.

1) The person holding the memories of Hylia rebuilding after SS, and naming the nation "Hyrule," does not preclude the nation from before SS also being called the same thing. I am all too happy to go into this further, here: https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/threads/the-case-for-raurus-early-reign-before-skyward-sword.75927/ . I really do want to hear your thoughts on this, but I already have a separate discussion for it.

2) It says nothing about the technology present in the past of SS.

3) We see the Master Sword made in Skyward Sword and there ain't anything Zonai about it.

As I said above, We don't see the whole creation process. We only see the last steps. On top of that, Placing a spirit inside of an item seems on brand for a particular Zoni sage we have seen.

Then I believe we have a misunderstanding here, I wasn't talking about who forged the Master Sword, I was talking about who made the material that ended up becoming the Master Sword, i.e the Goddess Sword. We know it was Hylia, along with the Ancient Sages, It's not unreasonable to assume Rauru is involved in that development. He is a very important figure in Hyrule's history, Not only as the first King of Hyrule, but also as an ancient Sage who played a huge part in a lot of Hyrule's history.

I think most of us have been talking about the Goddess Sword as a stage in the Master Sword's creation, form the start of the discussion, and I thought it was clear from the first mention of it. I also think your point about Rauru is very reasonable.

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

I would suggest that the Goddess Sword is more of an unfinished Master Sword. The abilities do not change, only get built upon. Fi is also the literal spirit/user-interface of the blade, and she does not change. The core of the weapon was there to begin with, and the part we see in SS is the final tempering process.


I am completely fine with this, and I also agree that the name is very specific, like the name originated from an important person. The very individual, in fact, that the nation in the past of Skyward Sword was centered around; much in the same way that we see it in later games.


If we see evidence of activity, we don't need to see the individuals.


Theories other than yours are not "fanfiction." Saying it like that is basically an insult. When insults are thrown out, it generally means that the point is empty. Unfortunately, this is an empty point; for two reasons.

1) The person holding the memories of Hylia rebuilding after SS, and naming the nation "Hyrule," does not preclude the nation from before SS also being called the same thing. I am all too happy to go into this further, here: https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/threads/the-case-for-raurus-early-reign-before-skyward-sword.75927/ . I really do want to hear your thoughts on this, but I already have a separate discussion for it.

2) It says nothing about the technology present in the past of SS.


As I said above, We don't see the whole creation process. We only see the last steps. On top of that, Placing a spirit inside of an item seems on brand for a particular Zoni sage we have seen.


I think most of us have been talking about the Goddess Sword as a stage in the Master Sword's creation, form the start of the discussion, and I thought it was clear from the first mention of it. I also think your point about Rauru is very reasonable.

The Master Sword is only ever referred to as such in Skyward Sword after it is specifically forged during the events of that game. Since The Zonai don't appear at all in Skyward Sword, it seems a reasonable assumption to say that they weren't at all involved in its construction.

Assuming that there was some far early nation named Hyrule that Rauru was allegedly the ruler of is fanfiction, since it isn't supported by the facts introduced in the game. As hard as I am on the ass-pulling nature of stuff like Skyward Sword and Tears of the Kingdom, the series has maintained that Hyrule only became a thing after the events of Skyward Sword. Since the series has only ever shown a Hyrule to exist after Skyward Sword, and since Rauru specifically states that he is the first king of Hyrule, it isn't much of a leap to say that his reign took place after that game.

I don't mean for fanfiction to be a derogatory term, but rather a statement about what the idea of a proto-Skyward Sword Hyrule is: a novel idea put forward that isn't supported by anything present in game. To be fair, TotK is a hard narrative to qualify. It's a story that pulls its pants down and takes a dump all over the established timeline, leaving fans to pull out a mop and explain how that dump was actually significant the whole time.

 

[Ashley the Witch]

I have to agree that Rauru didn't become the first king of Hyrule until after the Kingdom was established, but I'm also willing to bet that he might have done some important things before the kingdom was it ever established. After all, he did build the Temple of Time. So he knows a lot about the the Master Sword itself. Not to mention, he knows the ins and outs of the Master Sword's powers. As seen in Ocarina of Time.

 

[Ryuu Kage Desu]

Assuming that there was some far early nation named Hyrule that Rauru was allegedly the ruler of is fanfiction, since it isn't supported by the facts introduced in the game. As hard as I am on the ass-pulling nature of stuff like Skyward Sword and Tears of the Kingdom, the series has maintained that Hyrule only became a thing after the events of Skyward Sword. Since the series has only ever shown a Hyrule to exist after Skyward Sword, and since Rauru specifically states that he is the first king of Hyrule, it isn't much of a leap to say that his reign took place after that game.

I don't mean for fanfiction to be a derogatory term, but rather a statement about what the idea of a proto-Skyward Sword Hyrule is: a novel idea put forward that isn't supported by anything present in game. To be fair, TotK is a hard narrative to qualify. It's a story that pulls its pants down and takes a dump all over the established timeline, leaving fans to pull out a mop and explain how that dump was actually significant the whole time.

Spoiler - The case for Rauru's early reign; before Skyward Sword

At this time, as far as I have found, there are a number of problems with the past that Zelda was sent to, in Tears of the Kingdom, taking place after Skyward Sword. Why after Skyward Sword does not work. * There is no recognition of the Master Sword, when Zelda talks about it, and her only...

zeldadungeon.net

The Master Sword is only ever referred to as such in Skyward Sword after it is specifically forged during the events of that game. Since The Zonai don't appear at all in Skyward Sword, it seems a reasonable assumption to say that they weren't at all involved in its construction.

There is quite a lot we don't see throughout the series. It is not actually reasonable to simply assume that by not seeing a group of people during one time period, that they did not exist before that moment. As I have established here: https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/thre...-tears-of-the-kingdom-to-skyward-sword.75660/ , there is plenty of evidence to suggest that Zoni technology was present before Skyward Sword.

I mean Hidemaro Fujibayashi even stated:

I kind of want to pose the idea that, like in real-life history, you define by the artifacts and by the data that you currently have.

when asked about time placement in relation to SS.

And, ultimately, in the end, all I am really saying is that it is a possibility that Zoni tech was involved with the creation of the Master Sword, at some point.

 

[Lambsquirt]

Heres a Curve Ball ,
The Godesses Din Nayru and Farore are Zonai.......

1 Million % Conjectire

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

Spoiler - The case for Rauru's early reign; before Skyward Sword

At this time, as far as I have found, there are a number of problems with the past that Zelda was sent to, in Tears of the Kingdom, taking place after Skyward Sword. Why after Skyward Sword does not work. * There is no recognition of the Master Sword, when Zelda talks about it, and her only...

zeldadungeon.net

There is quite a lot we don't see throughout the series. It is not actually reasonable to simply assume that by not seeing a group of people during one time period, that they did not exist before that moment. As I have established here: https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/thre...-tears-of-the-kingdom-to-skyward-sword.75660/ , there is plenty of evidence to suggest that Zoni technology was present before Skyward Sword.

I mean Hidemaro Fujibayashi even stated:

when asked about time placement in relation to SS.

And, ultimately, in the end, all I am really saying is that it is a possibility that Zoni tech was involved with the creation of the Master Sword, at some point.

There might be the possibility, but there's nothing to suggest that it was. At the moment there is no actual evidence suggesting that the Zonai were involved with the Master Sword, nor that Rauru's kingdom existed before Skyward Sword. The evidence suggesting otherwise is that both source books and Skyward Sword itself indicate that Hyrule did not exist until after that game. Since Rauru is a king of Hyrule that means his species must have been active during the events of Skyward Sword.

All the tech we encounter is old, abandoned, and often rusted into non-functionality. Unless the Zonai people are chucking out their garbage like cell phone users dumping old iPhones before hiding just off screen I don't see how they can be made to exist in the world of SS.

As a more meta counterargument: Nintendo never puts this much thought into continuity. Even if there were any evidence to suggest that the Zonai were retconned into Skyward Sword's past they would absolutely just make it yet another ancient species totally unrelated to the Zonai. It'd be another Interlopers/Twili/Dark World/Lorule/Sheikah/Majora's Mask sealers situation where they refuse continuity.

 

[Ryuu Kage Desu]

Heres a Curve Ball ,
The Godesses Din Nayru and Farore are Zonai.......

1 Million % Conjectire

I don't think it's as far of a stretch as many make it out to be. I personally don't want it to be the case, but the possibility is there.

There might be the possibility, but there's nothing to suggest that it was. At the moment there is no actual evidence suggesting that the Zonai were involved with the Master Sword, nor that Rauru's kingdom existed before Skyward Sword. The evidence suggesting otherwise is that both source books and Skyward Sword itself indicate that Hyrule did not exist until after that game. Since Rauru is a king of Hyrule that means his species must have been active during the events of Skyward Sword.

I see you are ignoring the threads where I go in depth to your assertion here.

Architectural History, from Tears of the Kingdom to Skyward Sword

I am personally a fan of the idea that the past of Tears of the Kingdom is the time before Skyward Sword. To this end, I went through both games, comparing features of the structures. I originally grabbed screenshots from both games, with the intent of posting comparisons. Instead, to make this...

zeldadungeon.net

Spoiler - The case for Rauru's early reign; before Skyward Sword

At this time, as far as I have found, there are a number of problems with the past that Zelda was sent to, in Tears of the Kingdom, taking place after Skyward Sword. Why after Skyward Sword does not work. * There is no recognition of the Master Sword, when Zelda talks about it, and her only...

zeldadungeon.net

Is that because interacting with those threads would destroy your arguments here?

All the tech we encounter is old, abandoned, and often rusted into non-functionality. Unless the Zonai people are chucking out their garbage like cell phone users dumping old iPhones before hiding just off screen I don't see how they can be made to exist in the world of SS.

This completely ignores the war with Demise. We are literally told, and shown, that the ruins left behind in SS were due to that very conflict.

As a more meta counterargument: Nintendo never puts this much thought into continuity. Even if there were any evidence to suggest that the Zonai were retconned into Skyward Sword's past they would absolutely just make it yet another ancient species totally unrelated to the Zonai. It'd be another Interlopers/Twili/Dark World/Lorule/Sheikah/Majora's Mask sealers situation where they refuse continuity.

That old argument doesn't really hold water. While some fans try to poke holes in the continuity, and the creators have stated that they put game play over continuity; there is far too much attention to detail for the creators to not care about continuity at all. We also see a recurring theme of a sky people through many games, all having cohesive elements. The people from the past of Skyward Sword, the Twili, the Tower of the Gods in Wind Waker, the old Minish technology in Minish Cap, the Ancient Sheikah from BotW/TotK (Who obviously learned their tech secrets from the Zoni tech). The technology, the styling, the architecture, the history; it all fits. We aren't seeing new people being created to fill the same spot, it one story that we are only seeing parts of, which as been building for a while. And, I don't care if the robot people from SS don't visually match the robot people from TotK exact enough for your likeing (as only one example of my larger statement). A flip phone and a touch screen are both cellphones; just because they look different on the out side doesn't mean that they don't have the same tech on the inside.

The evidence suggesting otherwise is that both source books

Are you talking about the books that many people have pointed out errors in, that were not made by the developers, that offer many of their statements as just theories, and that are subordinant to what we see in game? Are you reffering to the part in the timeline that states that, "Hyrule was founded here," inbetween SS and MC? I don't mind that being there. That's when the Hyrule (Kingdom of Hylia's rule) we are familiar with was founded. We are not familiar with Rauru's Hyrule. Those source books say nothing about what the nation before SS was called. Again, follow the artifacts.

Where I would love to bring back around to the actual topic here, where you provide one useful statement.

There might be the possibility, but there's nothing to suggest that it was.

I am literally going to point you back to the origional post. The way the Master Sword interacts, and reacts to a Zoni ability being used on it. It literally glows with Zoni text.

Everything else is just a discussion where you have tried to somehow prove that the technology wasn't present, despite also try to prove that it should be present.

It's not about the placement of Rauru's reign. It's a moot point in this discussion. No mater where you place that on the timeline, the technology in question would have to exist well before that. If you want me to properly interact with your criticisims about my placement over yours, feel free to hit up thoose threads. Seriously, I've even tee'd up the ball for you.

---------------------------
As far as the text on the blade, Iv'e only managed to find a little, and it's not very definitive.

One translator, in Bandit's hideout Discord, (The Collector of Tears) gives this translation:
CHCMF, and stated that:

it is unique and does not show up anywhere else in my notes, although "CMF" appears at the ends of 8 random things (seems just like a semi normal ending bit).

One discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/TOTK/comments/143yr4l/anyone_nerdy_enough_to_translate_this_zonai_text/

,suggests something like "White Dragon."

if we take some liberty, it could be two words. rhyu is pronounced like ryu, meaning dragon in japanese, and istak meaning white in nahuatl.
White Dragon.
Two languages could also be a reference to the union of hylian and zonai as well.

Then there's this statement further down.

The folks who made the cipher online also did this translation of a Zonai Monument in the art book, which contains the phrase "Ryouitaseya" which they translate as "The miracle of Righteousness who is." If the text on the sword can be read as "rhyuista" then I think it's reasonable that the terms/phrases are related? So my assumption is that the sword has written on it a name, Rhyuistad/Rhyuistak - "The Miracle of Righteousness." Which makes a lot more sense as a fantasy sword name than "The sword that seals the darkness" or "The master sword."
I don't speak japanese and am purely making assumptions based on other translations so take with a grain of salt.

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

I don't think it's as far of a stretch as many make it out to be. I personally don't want it to be the case, but the possibility is there.


I see you are ignoring the threads where I go in depth to your assertion here.

Architectural History, from Tears of the Kingdom to Skyward Sword

I am personally a fan of the idea that the past of Tears of the Kingdom is the time before Skyward Sword. To this end, I went through both games, comparing features of the structures. I originally grabbed screenshots from both games, with the intent of posting comparisons. Instead, to make this...

zeldadungeon.net

Spoiler - The case for Rauru's early reign; before Skyward Sword

At this time, as far as I have found, there are a number of problems with the past that Zelda was sent to, in Tears of the Kingdom, taking place after Skyward Sword. Why after Skyward Sword does not work. * There is no recognition of the Master Sword, when Zelda talks about it, and her only...

zeldadungeon.net

Is that because interacting with those threads would destroy your arguments here?


This completely ignores the war with Demise. We are literally told, and shown, that the ruins left behind in SS were due to that very conflict.


That old argument doesn't really hold water. While some fans try to poke holes in the continuity, and the creators have stated that they put game play over continuity; there is far too much attention to detail for the creators to not care about continuity at all. We also see a recurring theme of a sky people through many games, all having cohesive elements. The people from the past of Skyward Sword, the Twili, the Tower of the Gods in Wind Waker, the old Minish technology in Minish Cap, the Ancient Sheikah from BotW/TotK (Who obviously learned their tech secrets from the Zoni tech). The technology, the styling, the architecture, the history; it all fits. We aren't seeing new people being created to fill the same spot, it one story that we are only seeing parts of, which as been building for a while. And, I don't care if the robot people from SS don't visually match the robot people from TotK exact enough for your likeing (as only one example of my larger statement). A flip phone and a touch screen are both cellphones; just because they look different on the out side doesn't mean that they don't have the same tech on the inside.


Are you talking about the books that many people have pointed out errors in, that were not made by the developers, that offer many of their statements as just theories, and that are subordinant to what we see in game? Are you reffering to the part in the timeline that states that, "Hyrule was founded here," inbetween SS and MC? I don't mind that being there. That's when the Hyrule (Kingdom of Hylia's rule) we are familiar with was founded. We are not familiar with Rauru's Hyrule. Those source books say nothing about what the nation before SS was called. Again, follow the artifacts.

Where I would love to bring back around to the actual topic here, where you provide one useful statement.

I am literally going to point you back to the origional post. The way the Master Sword interacts, and reacts to a Zoni ability being used on it. It literally glows with Zoni text.

Everything else is just a discussion where you have tried to somehow prove that the technology wasn't present, despite also try to prove that it should be present.

It's not about the placement of Rauru's reign. It's a moot point in this discussion. No mater where you place that on the timeline, the technology in question would have to exist well before that. If you want me to properly interact with your criticisims about my placement over yours, feel free to hit up thoose threads. Seriously, I've even tee'd up the ball for you.

---------------------------
As far as the text on the blade, Iv'e only managed to find a little, and it's not very definitive.

One translator, in Bandit's hideout Discord, (The Collector of Tears) gives this translation:
CHCMF, and stated that:


One discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/TOTK/comments/143yr4l/anyone_nerdy_enough_to_translate_this_zonai_text/

,suggests something like "White Dragon."


Then there's this statement further down.

I am going by the books specifically requested and authorized by Nintendo, and by the games. Saying that they aren't canon would be like saying that any game not directed Shigeru Miyamoto isn't canon, since he was one of the directors of the first game. I respect the effort you've put into your threads, but I tend to see any projection of the Zonai onto the Skyward Sword architecture as fanfiction, since it has to ignore that the Zonai should be alive and well by that point in the timeline.

So, based on the evidence shown in the games we can conclude two things:

1) The Master Sword wasn't forged by the Zonai, since the Zonai should be present and active in Skyward Sword yet are no nowhere to be seen.
2) Rauru's rule happens after Skyward Sword because that is the first recorded instance of a Hyrulian kingdom and because he specifically namedrops Hyrule. Anything else is fanfiction, since an earlier version is never mentioned in the franchise.

I'm not gonna claim that all everything in the source books is good, but Zelda has always been full of lore sticking a thumb up its own butt and ****ing everything up. It isn't exactly the first, second, or even the third time they've done so.

 

[Lambsquirt]

I am going by the books specifically requested and authorized by Nintendo, and by the games. Saying that they aren't canon would be like saying that any game not directed Shigeru Miyamoto isn't canon, since he was one of the directors of the first game. I respect the effort you've put into your threads, but I tend to see any projection of the Zonai onto the Skyward Sword architecture as fanfiction, since it has to ignore that the Zonai should be alive and well by that point in the timeline.

So, based on the evidence shown in the games we can conclude two things:

1) The Master Sword wasn't forged by the Zonai, since the Zonai should be present and active in Skyward Sword yet are no nowhere to be seen.
2) Rauru's rule happens after Skyward Sword because that is the first recorded instance of a Hyrulian kingdom. Anything else is fanfiction, since an earlier version is never mentioned in the franchise.

I'm not gonna claim that all everything in the source books is good, but Zelda has always been full of lore sticking a thumb up its own butt and ****ing everything up. It isn't exactly the first, second, or even the third time they've done so.

This is Pure unadulterated "Bias" fighting against Credible stipulation. tsk tsk,
Dangerous levels of Dissonance.

1) The Master Sword wasn't forged by the Zonai, "since the Zonai should be present and active in Skyward Sword yet are no nowhere to be seen." -Conjecture Contradiction.

2) Rauru's rule happens after Skyward Sword because that is the first recorded instance of a Hyrulian kingdom and because he specifically namedrops Hyrule. Anything else is fanfiction, since an earlier version is never mentioned in the franchise.- More conjecture.


1.) Im not claiming the master sword to be "Zonai made" however you do contradict your own conjecture saying.

"Since the Zonai should be present and active in Skyward Sword yet are no nowhere to be seen"

My point is that if they are nowhere to be seen does your whole arguement fall over?
This meaning Zonai have to be Before "Skyward Sword"........

Fair point, to point out your own Contradiction, as POST "Skyward Sword",
The Mastersword is Widely known, and if Rarus rule is after "SS", How in the name of Hylia is it possible for the "King of Hyrule" never had Heard of the "Master Sword" (From Skyloft) and "Demise",

If T.O.T.K's events happen "after Skyloft" you contradict your own Moot.

T.O.T.K Dialogue "States" Raru and Sonia Founded Hyrule....

Where is Your Argument?

 

[Ashley the Witch]

This is Pure unadulterated "Bias" fighting against Credible stipulation. tsk tsk,
Dangerous levels of Dissonance.

I personally don't believe so, at least for the second point. We have facts, we can't change those. We can only speculate the unknown. Rauru's reign did start after Skyward Sword. That's an absolute fact, we cannot change that but we can speculate what Rauru did before his coronation as the first king of Hyrule. The first point is completely uncertain. We do not know who the ancient sages were who helped in the creation of the Goddess Sword which in turn became the Master Sword. We do not know anything about those ancient sages, one, some, or all could have helped in the creation of the Goddess Sword along with the goddess Hylia.

 

[Lambsquirt]

I personally don't believe so, at least for the second point. We have facts, we can't change those. We can only speculate the unknown. Rauru's reign did start after Skyward Sword. That's an absolute fact, we cannot change that but we can speculate what Rauru did before his coronation as the first king of Hyrule. The first point is completely uncertain. We do not know who the ancient sages were who helped in the creation of the Goddess Sword which in turn became the Master Sword. We do not know anything about those ancient sages, one, some, or all could have helped in the creation of the Goddess Sword along with the goddess Hylia.

How is Rarus reign "Absoloute Fact" After Skyward Sword?
This Placement makes little-to-no sense at all to myself...

 

[Mikey the Moblin]

Maybe tears of the kingdom just retconned ocarina of time

 

[Ashley the Witch]

How is Rarus reign "Absoloute Fact" After Skyward Sword?
This Placement makes little-to-no sense at all to myself...

It's quite simple really. The country itself didn't exist until after Skyward Sword, the surface was just inhabited by roaming nomads and other creatures there was a lost civilization on the surface, but it's just that a lost civilization, not Hyrule. Hyrule wasn't established until the Skyloftians traveled to the surface. There can be roaming tribes without a country leading them, this happened a lot during real life history, and was happening before and during Skyward Sword. We see that for ourselves. As well as in the Hyrule Historia.