If Link Were A Woman

[J Oh]

I was responding directly to J Oh on that point who brought up the idea of Zelda being the protagonist rather than Link.

I was off topic, but just expressing my opinion of the realistic possibility of how the series could have a female protagonist, yet I do not count CD-i games as official in anyway even if Nintendo gave them the rights to use characters. Their just sad additions to the series lol. I want an official Nintendo game with Zelda as the protagonist.

 

[Satsy]

Hmm, I see I'm really going to have to start using quotes so people know what I'm referring to. J Oh I was responding to enemytracker who had taken my post not considering that I was responding to you. Is this hole deep enough yet? I'm not sure where I got this forum shovel but I definitely seem to keep digging this strange hole, don't I?

I already know this topic is about Link being female and not Zelda being the protagonist (and have already previously responded in kind), I was pointing out the CD-i games because J-Oh had mentioned wanting a game where Zelda is the protagonist even if just once, and I think it's worth noting that we already shun the entire CD-i series, which was trying to put a different spin on things, what makes us think we'd have ever treated the rest of the Zelda series different to that back in the 80s/90s?

And since I'm here....

No, I'm not. It was a rebuttal to the idea that it would be "weird" to have a woman save another woman because of what it implies, and that there are plenty of circumstances that it would make sense.

This is where I'm referring to you not taking into account the way people in Japan (like the developers) would view the gender roles. Remember that honourable roles like Samurai were considered men's jobs, so a man protecting a man is not considered weird. However these roles aren't considered 'right' for women, or at least never used to be (and may only be changing of recent), so a woman protecting a woman -- OR a man -- would break a certain suspension of disbelief. Even if this isn't considered the case in the Western World, or on a more global scale of the last 10 or so years, this would not have been the case back then. So no, it would have been weird, and that's what I was originally referring to as well. The reception of such a role would have been harder to judge, but the majority of protagonists back then were male, and, like these days rehashing an existing Intellectual Property is considered safer than trying out a new IP, it would have been considered wiser to go with what they knew sold.

 

[Shadsie]

Without reading over everything that's been said...

My first thought was - I'm not sure it would be a good thing because, inevitably, Link would become very sexualized - as in, tight, tight tunic... maybe even a chainmail bra like on badly-done fantasy book covers. No, just no. As many girl gamers exist (myself included), videogames are thought of as mostly a "male hobby" to this day. It's beginning to change, but it seems that most games do things to appeal to the male gaze, if you know what I mean.

Some "equal opportunity" has happened - for example, I think Nintendo knows that Zelda has lots of (straight) female fans - Twilight Princess did the fanservice thing with the Sumo wrestling and Link's nicely-toned rancher's body. (Of course they did the funny by an immediate shot to Mayor Bo)... Still it was only one little scene/mini-game thing.

If he were a she... I worry that she'd be running around in an armor bra and panties the *whole freaking game.*

As much as I'd like to see more strong female protagonists (in any media), I think the videogame culture needs to get over the female objectification things first. Go back to the bulky suits and genreally practical clothing - just because the hero is a lady doesn't mean she has to show every last curve.


And, I'm just used to Link as a boy/man. I read somewhere - in regards to sexism in modern literature, that stories with male protagonists often do better (and get agents/publishers inerested in books) better ones with female protagonists because the way culture (Western or just world?) grooms us with the idea of male heroes. As a result, according to the article, girls can easily identify with male protagonists despite the gender much better than males can identify with a female. - As I recall, the gist of the article was basically something like "If J.K. Rowling had created a Harriet Potter, she never would have sold a book."

That said, I seem to enjoy writing female protagonists in my own, original books, but when it comes to fanfiction/roleplay of pop culture/already existant stuff, I tend to find myself "identifying" best with male heroes for some reason.

I need to finish playing Metroid Prime.

 

[February Eve]

This is where I'm referring to you not taking into account the way people in Japan (like the developers) would view the gender roles. Remember that honourable roles like Samurai were considered men's jobs, so a man protecting a man is not considered weird. However these roles aren't considered 'right' for women, or at least never used to be (and may only be changing of recent), so a woman protecting a woman -- OR a man -- would break a certain suspension of disbelief.

And again, no, I am not. I think we're approaching this from different angles. Because here's what I'm already assuming:

1) The OP asked, "What if Link was a woman?" So rather than saying if this could be, I am already going with the assumption that "he" is a "she".
2) Someone else said that it wouldn't make sense if she rescued a princess. So my second assumption is that the hypothetical female Link is saving the princess.

With these two assumptions already in mind, people seemed to think that a female Link saving the princess would have romantic implications. I may be misinterpreting those comments. However, that is what I was responding to. I was pointing out that there are plenty of reasons for this not to be the case. It did not refer to cultural expectations about job occupations. It was a direct response to a specific scenario,and about whether or not it would be romantic, and I was pointing out that in terms of story, it could make sense. It had nothing to do with how likely the scenario was because of its cultural base.

Approaching it entirely from the top, not using those assumptions, my response about how the game would change would be different. I've studied a little of the Japanese culture, and I lived in Japan for two years. I don't feel that this nearly qualifies me to make a strong statement about the exact ways it would change, but I do know what you're speaking of. If I were to analyze it, I may or may not disagree with you on those points. But that wasn't the question I was answering.

If you have any more comments directly related to my response, I'd rather take it to VMs so it didn't become a back-and-forth here.

 

[ancazur]

As much as I'd like to see more strong female protagonists (in any media), I think the videogame culture needs to get over the female objectification things first. Go back to the bulky suits and genreally practical clothing - just because the hero is a lady doesn't mean she has to show every last curve.

Agreed. Besides, how can it possibly be comfortable fighting off demons in stuff like that?

 

[EternalNocturne]

Well, you have to take into consideration that Samus was hidden in a giant bulking suit, whereas you can visibly see Link and confirm that he is indeed male.
Personally, I'm not all too fond of female protagonists. I mean, a female saving a female princess seems to imply certain things, doesn't it?
I don't think I would enjoy the games as much as I do if Link were a female. I know there's the whole "that's sexist" thing, but I'm a female and I like my heroes to be males.
But, that's just my opinion and sometimes I flash my hidden male envy.

Here's some rule 63 for you:

You know what? The sad part is that those pictures still greatly resemble Link... He's always has a somewhat feminine look to him, honestly. XD I've shown a picture of [male] Link to some people who've never played Zelda before, and I asked them if he looked like a girl or a guy.

A great number of them said "girl." XD

I don't think I would enjoy LoZ nearly as much if Link was a girl. I like my protagonists being male, as with the quoted poster. (I'm a girl, too.) I don't have a problem with the main character being female, though--I'm just more likely to remember the game if the protagonist is a guy.

 

[Satsy]

February Eve: I think I get where you're coming from now. If it's looking at specific scenarios, then you're probably right. Sorry 'bout that.

 

[Majora's Cat]

@ February Eve

Actually, I really thought people would assume that if Link were a woman, Princess Zelda would have to fit the role of a man... and it'd be strange seeing a "mansel" in distress.

 

[CUCCOMASTER]

if link were female, then there's the possibility that zelda (male version) was the hero in the past but was captured, locked in a dungeon, and needed link to save her. it would be awkward.

 

[February Eve]

No problem, Satsy. I should have explained myself better in the first place. And for what it's worth, I like your point about it defying disbelief to much to have a "woman" samurai because I think the fact that the Zelda games are faux-medieval is a good thing to take into account in the discussion.

Actually, I really thought people would assume that if Link were a woman, Princess Zelda would have to fit the role of a man... and it'd be strange seeing a "mansel" in distress.

That may be what was meant instead, but that's still an issue where, imo, tradition is too narrow and the story can be broader than that and still make sense. Plus, as Satsy and I were discussing, it depends on if you're talking about the entire audience it's aimed at or a smaller segment. I know the Disney movie Enchanted was mainly meant to be cute, but it's got an example when the male lead is grabbed by a dragon. Probably not a lot a modern-day man without weapons can do about that. It doesn't mean he is weak, it just means the enemy is very strong. From a Western perspective, the "mansel" was not a problem, because audiences recognized this (and also knew it was a direct counterpoint to tradition.)

Examining it from a cultural and historical perspective, though, opens a whole other can of worms. But again, I'm just here for the story side. XD

ETA: I got to thinking about how this would work applied to some of the different games that already exist, and I think Twilight Princess is one that it would work in, and that's in part because of the children being kidnapped in the beginning. Rightly or wrongly, it plays into the "mama bear" characteristic that women are assumed to have. I even think Zelda's captivity would work in this instance since Link's main motivation would be rescuing the children. To me, Midna's gender would be the one in question, because while I personally would love to see two strong women working together to save the world, that would be what breaks tradition in this instance.

 

[Ventus]

If Link were female, unbiased in all ways, I'd say that the Zelda series wouldn't be AS successful as it is now. It's just the way that females were treated back in the 80's, and the fact that female protagonists aren't exactly "loved". Samus and her Metroid series aren't anywhere near as popular as Zelda or Mario, neither of which feature a female as main protagonist (besides the failure CD-i game and the Super Peach series, plus the BS Zelda series [which was entirely non-canon and is unplayable due to being a Satellaview dealio]).

I'm not saying that Link couldn't be female, I'm saying that he wouldn't be as loved as (s)he is today. It would be interesting to have a gender option in Skyward Sword, but as unlikely as that is, I'm almost 50% certain that players would choose Link as a male over female, with at least a 2:1 ratio.

 

[Nye Pendragon]

I can honestly say it wouldn't make a difference to me.
I look at the character's backstories, personalities and morals for their substance,
not their biological sex. So I don't care if a protangonist is a girl, a boy or something else.
As long as they're well-developed, I care little what goes on in the gender department. |D

Meh. Maybe that's just me. x3

 

[Majora's Cat]

@ VanistasXII

It's true that gamers from the past wouldn't warm up to the idea of Link being a girl, but... how else would you explain Metroid's success (though Metroid wasn't as successful as Zelda or Mario...)?

 

[Satsy]

Majora's Cat: Probably the fact that not everyone realises (or ever really used to realise) that Samus even was a woman. Bear in mind other than one ending sequence, she only really jumped out of her suit during and after the GBA years, said handheld not even released till the turn of the millennium. Since then most times I've really seen her with any particularly feminine look (either as Zero Suit Samus or in the suit with no helmet) she's carried a particular 'eye candy' look, which also helps.

 

[Majora's Cat]

@ Satsy

You're right, the original Metroid did not show Samus' gender until the end, and it certainly does help that Samus is a good-looking hero, but aren't all female protagonists "eye-candy"?