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General Zelda I Find the WM+ to Be a Step in the Wrong Direction.

Zorth

#Scoundrel
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Yes, you heard me!

I completely hate the WM+ and find that it actually gives me less immersion than a regular controller because all the swinging around with the Wii mote is a constant reminder that I'm in my living room playing a game (a minor reason why I didn't enjoy SS and TP Wii). Which is why I was happy when I saw the the WiiU at least has multiple control schemes, but I guess not for all games and I'll be worried up until we see some actual footage of ZeldaU or any other Zelda game in the future if it's going to be focusing on motions and other un-orthodox methods of controlling Link's actions or the classic button mashing gameplay.

thoughts?
 

Ventus

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This is objectively untrue. If you take a gander at Skyward Sword you will notice that Link has eight directions' worth of slashing, plus a depth of stabbing. That is objectively more complex than the basic system provided by Twilight Princess and Ocarina of Time. Now, because it is complex, it also shows a resemblance to real life swordfighting. Believe it or not you ARE playing a game of puzzlenemy in real life when playing with bouken because you have to maneuver to the weakpoints of your foes. This is immersive and anyone to claim otherwise is playing makebelieve.
 

Zorth

#Scoundrel
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
This is objectively untrue. If you take a gander at Skyward Sword you will notice that Link has eight directions' worth of slashing, plus a depth of stabbing. That is objectively more complex than the basic system provided by Twilight Princess and Ocarina of Time. Now, because it is complex, it also shows a resemblance to real life swordfighting. Believe it or not you ARE playing a game of puzzlenemy in real life when playing with bouken because you have to maneuver to the weakpoints of your foes. This is immersive and anyone to claim otherwise is playing makebelieve.
omg please tell me more about how immersive and complex it is to swing around with a little TV remote in your hand slashing at enemies either horizontally or vertically!!
 

Big Octo

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In most games, I'm not too fond of the motion controls present, particularly Skyward Sword. Although, I don't think my opinion would determine whether using the WM+ was a good decision or not, because I view the fanbase to be split over the WM+ present in Skyward Sword. Yet another reason why the fanbase is impossible to thoroughly please.
 

Ventus

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omg please tell me more about how immersive and complex it is to swing around with a little TV remote in your hand slashing at enemies either horizontally or vertically!!
It isn't either, because we have diagonal swinging as well! Remember the stalfos in Skyward Sword? And the Lizalfos? And the zols (I think)?

This is more complex than swinging either horizontally or vertically. And it's immersive because it makes you feel like you're Link, rather than just some guy acting like a fool. Now if you think this is a step in the wrong direction, how can you claim that pressing buttons is more immersive?
 

Zorth

#Scoundrel
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
I sense sarcasm, but like it matters. If Zorth can't make the connection between him and the game just because it's motion rather than buttons, that's his problem. Live and let live. Haters gonna hate.
On a more serious note, I'd rather there be the option of choosing between either motion controls and button mashing.. but we all know developers not have enough resources to do both!! :(

This is more complex than swinging either horizontally or vertically. And it's immersive because it makes you feel like you're Link, rather than just some guy acting like a fool. Now if you think this is a step in the wrong direction, how can you claim that pressing buttons is more immersive? Objectively untrue.
except I don't feel like Link, I actually feel like an idiot standing in his living room swinging a TV remote around. Which is why button mashing is more immersive, not because it actually is more immersive it's because it doesn't make me think about what I'm doing as much as motion controls do, which means that the motion control's immersive experience is maybe better on paper but totally sux out in the real world!
 

Ventus

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except I don't feel like Link, I actually feel like an idiot standing in his living room swinging a TV remote around. Which is why button mashing is more immersive, not because it actually is more immersive it's because it doesn't make me think about what I'm doing as much as motion controls do, which means that the motion control's immersive experience is maybe better on paper but totally sux out in the real world!
Okay then let me level with you. Swinging a tv remote around is pretty ridiculous. Would you rather Nintendo build a lifesize Master Sword and use that with something say like the Kinect? At this point this is getting ridiculous. WM+ is more immersive and if it isn't, I don't know what to tell you. :/

Like, it isn't an exact replication of real swordfighting, but it's more than mashing a button around. Far more.
 

Mercedes

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I agree with you, Zorth. It's an attempt at 1:1 immersion swordplay but it just doesn't work in practice the way it works on paper, it's not an immersive experience. My main reasons for it are a lack of both weight and force feedback. When Link's swinging his sword and smash through enemies, if he clashes against a shield or a wall, he stops swinging. The sword swing stops, and he recoils. But my hand keeps going. There's no real, heavy feedback to the player. And he has a heavy sword in his hands, whereas I'm still stood in my living room flailing a very flimsy bit of plastic around. The former especially is a big immersion breaker, and the latter is just a little thing but I would like to have more weight behind my swings. It would add at least something.

So I do agree. It was a great piece of technology, sure, but it just wasn't an immersive experience and nor an experience I particularly wish to experience until it's a lot better. It's definitely not immersive for me.
 

Ventus

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I agree with you, Zorth. It's an attempt at 1:1 immersion swordplay but it just doesn't work in practice the way it works on paper, it's not an immersive experience. My main reasons for it are a lack of both weight and force feedback. When Link's swinging his sword and smash through enemies, if he clashes against a shield or a wall, he stops swinging. The sword swing stops, and he recoils. But my hand keeps going. There's no real, heavy feedback to the player. And he has a heavy sword in his heads, whereas I'm still stood in my living room flailing a very flimsy bit of plastic around. The former especially is a big immersion breaker, and the latter is just a little thing but I would like to have more weight behind my swings. It would add at least something.
It's impossible for Nintendo to implement weight and force feedback. The technology doesn't provide for that. And even then, the audience it was targeting was not the actual swordfighters. This is a video game. Of course it would lack completely realistic properties. Otherwise the game should've had a realistic art style, a lot more serious tone, and enemies that are actually dangerous. These are unfair criticisms you're giving. It would be like me saying "goddammit the N64 didn't have HD graphics" well guess what? N64 can't do that. :/
 

JuicieJ

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When Link's swinging his sword and smash through enemies, if he clashes against a shield or a wall, he stops swinging. The sword swing stops, and he recoils. But my hand keeps going. There's no real, heavy feedback to the player.
Petty complaint. There's no reason to expect the Wii Remote to bounce back because Link's sword did, and if his motions went all the way through after a block, it wouldn't make sense, because... it's a block. The fact that there's a recoil should do nothing but ADD to the immersion, because there's feedback IN THE GAME.

And he has a heavy sword in his heads, whereas I'm still stood in my living room flailing a very flimsy bit of plastic around.
Mhm. And previous games had him swinging a sword from us pressing a button. Doesn't make much sense, does it?
 

Justac00lguy

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It's a tough subject and one that has been discussed and argued to death, on this site alone. On the one hand, it's nice to be in control of your actions and have more precise movements - especially when using the sword in games like Skyward Sword. However, it remains highly controversial, and a lot of people, like me, feel it wasn't all that great and led to the same repetitive problems that were in other Zelda games.

Overall, it's an innovative control scheme, but we have the GamePad now, allowing multiple options for control. You have the classic button/stick controls, but yet there are now a lot more buttons, which will allow for more options/combinations etc. plus you have the fact that they are more conveniently placed than on the Wii MotionPlus and Nunchuck. Did I forget that the GamePad is easily more comfortable than using them two controllers with a wire in between?

You also have the touchscreen, which could allow for multiple ways of controlling the game/player, solving puzzles, maybe use if combat, etc. You also have the Gyroscope which implements that sense of control through motion. To be honest, I'm not that over the moon on what Wii MotionPlus brought, it allowed for more specific movements, but my favorite thing about motion control was the precise aiming etc. the Gyroscope brings this. Then you have the voice commands and maybe even a camera which could play some sort of role if Nintendo so wished.

The main reason why the GamePad is the future and why Wii MotionPlus should stay in the past, is the convenience of the controller itself. Like I mentioned, you have multiple forms of control all on one controller and it's surprisingly comfortable. One of the main plusses that the GamePad brings is the second screen, which is used to stop break ups form gameplay to the pause screen. You can have all your maps, items, hud, basically whatever, all on the GamePad screen, meaning that one doesn't have to detract from the experience -- like I said "convenience". This is the future, of course Wii MotionPlus may still be used, but time will always be inferior in my eyes and nothing more than a secondary consol scheme if it is used.
 

snakeoiltanker

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I've never been a big fan of the motion controls whether standard or motion +. i like my regular button mashing game play! I like the idea that they are trying to pull us into the game by letting us do the motions that link is doing on screen, but i just dont think it working as well as what everyone expected, which mean expectations from most people were too high, resulting in a low reception to them!

I think what my main issue with Motion Controls is everytime i go back to SS, i feel like i gotta learn to play it again, whereas EVERY OTHER Zelda i can pick up and play and be at my normal "Zelda skill level". That and im lazy, i just wanna sit on my couch and play Zelda, quit making me move...and...you know.... do stuff!
 

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