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I Can't Read While I'm Also Trying to See Things!

I guess tis thread goes in the entertainment forum..

So, subtitles. How do you feel about them?
If you have a choice between a dub and a sub which do you go for?
Do you avoid movies/animes etc entirely if they are subbed?


For me on anime if there is an english dub i'll go for it, english dubs in anime can be of good quality and they have a lot of time put into them which is more that what can be said for dubbing of most foreign films. I'll always go for subs in a foreign film because it bugs me to hell to have an asian guy or lady speaking with a very annoying accent which obviously isnt theirs.

So... answers on a postcard.
 

Ventus

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Well for anime, I try out one episode of the English dub if its available to see if I like it. If it isn't to my liking, I just go with English subs.

For movies...well, I don't watch any movie that isn't in English, so...yeah. :/
 

CynicalSquid

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For anime if there is an English dub then I'm watching that and I normally avoid subs. For movies... I have never watched a foreign movie so I can't really give my opinions because I have none :fi:
 

Hanyou

didn't build that
If you're focusing all your attention on watching a movie, I don't see how subtitles are remotely distracting. Both the words and everything on the screen should fall well within the range of your vision--and dialog tends to reduce during action scenes anyway.

I have no problem watching subs and vastly prefer them to dubs on most occasions. For one things, subs can be (but aren't necessarily) closer to the original script. Dubs need to be adapted for lip syncing. For another, delivery changes. Lots of people bring up anime. Well, Japanese sounds very different than English. What sounds good in Japanese might not necessarily sound good in my native language, which leads to awkward exclamations, etc. Different languages express ideas differently, and good shows and movies are all about ideas. If I can hear an idea expressed as originally intended, it does a great deal to connect me to the characters, story, and world.

Also, if I'm watching a movie or show that takes place in a different country with a different language, why on earth would I want to hear it in English? I wasn't too fond of The Passion of the Christ, but listening to Aramaic, a language I rarely get to hear, was fascinating and, along with the timely sets and visuals, was a highlight of the movie. Apocalypto is one of my favorite action films, in part because, however fictional its universe, it feels authentic. Again, language played into that. I wish more studios would take Mel Gibson's lead and actually film movies in native languages, even when they don't have to.

There are exceptions. I'll admit I've actively chosen dubs over subs several times because I like multitasking. I'll often watch movies or shows while playing video games, and that's much harder to do when you have to deal with reading something on-screen. It's the reason I might put off watching foreign films I really want to see.

I also prefer the 4kids dub of the early seasons of Pokemon because, even though it's arguably worse than Japanese version, it's what I grew up with. It's almost an entirely different show for it, which would probably explain why I like it. I also prefer the dub of Cowboy Bebop--it's better, though I can't explain why.

These are exceptions, though, and I submit that as a rule, subs are generally better because they allow translated material to adhere more closely to the original product. This doesn't always happen. In fact, I would go so far as to say that many translations, dub or sub, can end up so different from the source material that they're another product entirely, an adaptation (this is the case with early seasons of Pokemon). Adaptations are rarely as good as the original work of art, for which the creators invested more resources and time. In my experience, this happens less with subs, and the simple fact that I am able to hear the original delivery makes for one less barrier between myself and the source material.

TLDR: Subs are probably better than dubs as a whole, circumstantial personal preference be damned.
 
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Curmudgeon

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I like foreign films and I agree with Hanyou; I don't have difficulty watching the movie and reading the subtitles if that's what I've set out to do. As an amateur linguist and language teacher, I like to watch movies in Spanish with English subtitles to compare what is said versus what is put on the screen. Sometimes the subtitles barely hang onto the original meaning, or are changed dramatically to shoehorn the text to the speed of the speaking.
 

Hanyou

didn't build that
I like foreign films and I agree with Hanyou; I don't have difficulty watching the movie and reading the subtitles if that's what I've set out to do. As an amateur linguist and language teacher, I like to watch movies in Spanish with English subtitles to compare what is said versus what is put on the screen. Sometimes the subtitles barely hang onto the original meaning, or are changed dramatically to shoehorn the text to the speed of the speaking.

Pan's Labyrinth is one of my favorite movies. I can't imagine not watching it in Spanish. It's for that reason I feel kind of bad watching anime in English, even for convenience's sake. I don't like doing it with real works of art even if they are animated, like Miyazaki's films, certainly.

Spanish and English are pretty compatible, too, even in terms of inflection and meaning. But even with those two languages, a dub would be unlikely to do an original film justice.
 

Garo

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Pan's Labyrinth is one of my favorite movies. I can't imagine not watching it in Spanish. It's for that reason I feel kind of bad watching anime in English, even for convenience's sake. I don't like doing it with real works of art even if they are animated, like Miyazaki's films, certainly.

Spanish and English are pretty compatible, too, even in terms of inflection and meaning. But even with those two languages, a dub would be unlikely to do an original film justice.

As an extra point, sometimes subtleties of the original language get lost. For instance, the first time Captain Vidal greets his wife and Ofelia, he says "Bienvenidos," which is the masculine form of the greeting and should only be used when greeting at least one male - in his first word, we already see his certainty that his yet to be born child will be a son, and how that son is more important to him than his wife and stepdaughter.

English doesn't really have much recourse for such a subtle character revelation like that. It's for this reason that I dislike dubs and dislike reading works in translation - I always feel like I'm missing things.
 

Naga

MUSICALITY!
Sometimes there's the closed caption on my TV. There's been so many times where I'm just sitting there reading the darn white words on the bottom of the screen and I'm not watching whatever's on. Maybe it's just cause I'm a bookworm and I gravitate towards text? Meh, I dunno...
 

elliotstriforce

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i prefer watching foreign films dubbed over because some of the voices they use are hilarious, and i find the mouth movements funny.
 

Hanyou

didn't build that
As an extra point, sometimes subtleties of the original language get lost. For instance, the first time Captain Vidal greets his wife and Ofelia, he says "Bienvenidos," which is the masculine form of the greeting and should only be used when greeting at least one male - in his first word, we already see his certainty that his yet to be born child will be a son, and how that son is more important to him than his wife and stepdaughter.

English doesn't really have much recourse for such a subtle character revelation like that. It's for this reason that I dislike dubs and dislike reading works in translation - I always feel like I'm missing things.

Unless you know every language, though, you're going to have to deal with some translation. So when it comes to film, wouldn't you agree that dubs at least allow more room for drawing distinctions between greetings, for instance?

I can see formal and informal (or masculine or feminine) words and greetings being conveyed in English--not well, not perfectly, but at least the idea could be preserved. Being bound by lip syncing, though, wouldn't allow for that.

Subbing doesn't eliminate the loss of information, but it has the potential to minimize it.
 

Garo

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Unless you know every language, though, you're going to have to deal with some translation. So when it comes to film, wouldn't you agree that dubs at least allow more room for drawing distinctions between greetings, for instance?

I can see formal and informal (or masculine or feminine) words and greetings being conveyed in English--not well, not perfectly, but at least the idea could be preserved. Being bound by lip syncing, though, wouldn't allow for that.

Subbing doesn't eliminate the loss of information, but it has the potential to minimize it.

Potentially - but I'm a bit of a purist when it comes to world cinema. I am very receptive of subs, as they're necessary for most people and for most films of an uncommonly spoken language (one of my favorite films is entirely in Thai, which I naturally do not speak). When I watch a subbed film, I'm still getting the nuance of the original language even if I'm not recognizing it. When I read a review or an analysis later, written by a person fluent in the language of the film, if they point out something like Vidal's greeting, it won't be something I completely missed - it will just be something I was unaware of by virtue of not knowing the language.

Dubs erase all of that entirely, rather than it simply going by unnoticed. Additionally you run into the issue of really poor dubbing, such as the case of the English dub of Oldboy - a wonderful film, but a terrible dub that makes it barely worth watching unless you watched a subbed Korean version.
 

Hanyou

didn't build that
Garo, I agree with you, and should note that I accidentally said "dubs" in the second sentence of my post--I meant subs. Dubs allow for less freedom.

Dubs tend to be poor, but to be fair their task is not an easy one. In many cases, it's also an unnecessary one.

I'm a bit of a purist as well, and should pre-emptively add that this is different from elitism. I've been accused of it before (not on this forums) for preferring subs to dubs. I'd simply ask how many people who even think that would like to watch a Spanish version of a popular English-speaking film like Star Wars. It's atrocious, but no more atrocious than a great many English dubs.

Good call on Oldboy. Love that movie.
 

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