Gerudo

[Diligo]

well maybe it was like that at the beginning but its obvious that it isnt like that later on. they obviously dont want the same things that Ganondorf wants. so this brings us back to our main point. why would they be banished or turned into the twili people if they did nothing wrong?

Actually I was doing a little research, his people may have not have known about Link because Ganondorf was using him to reveal Zelda. So he could get all three pieces of the Triforce. If Link was captured or killed Link would never be able to reveal Zelda and he would not be able to obtain the other two pieces of the Triforce.
With that in mind, the Gerudo are not liked, they are not nice people, they don't like Hyrule, they worship their king, and they steal as a form of substance and hatred, and they are stuck in a desert, which they hate. I'm sure they would gladly follow their king and try to take over Hyrule as the game states.
He did it on his own with the help of Link but without Link trying to get into the Temple of Time unlocking the sacred realm, I'm sure Ganondorf will need a little help. Also Ganondorf was trying to take over Hyrule more than likely with the help of his girls. That is till Link shows up and starts a whole chain of events which leads Ganondorf to do things on his own. He was going to lead his army into the land and overthrow the king, but when he discovered what Link was trying to do he decided to use Link to take it and obtain power of the Triforce. Since the allies of Hyrule wouldn't let him have the stones or keys to the Temple of Time he was going to weaken the Allies over throw the King and get the stones and gain ultimate power. With Link, he would obtain ultimate power and not involve his girls or a war, and he could obtain the kingdom in a nicely wrapped package.
Doing this as an accident Link will have to fix and somewhat prevent what was "somewhat" his fault. Even though Ganondorf was going to start a war he help Ganondorf get the Triforce trying to prevent what Ganondorf was going to do.
Ganondorf did however cause problems for the other allies so when he did start the war Hyrule would have no help. Also with them weak already, he could not only over throw the King but get the stones as I previously stated. When his plans messed up a bit and the Triforce split, he need Link to his own accord so he could get the other two. But now Link has already awoken a sage the other would awaken too. This would interfere with his plans to capture both Link and Zelda for the Triforce he will have to lock up and mess with the temples scattered across Hyrule to prevent their awakening, so they can't help Link and he can get the other Triforce pieces.
So with this more prevalent information, or logical nick picking of the original story, this leaves me to believe they didn't know about Link. Even so they were going to start a war anyway with Hyrule, which lead them to get cast into another realm, ultimately altering them through generations, turning them into the Twili. :3

 

[Zemen]

Actually I was doing a little research, his people may have not have known about Link because Ganondorf was using him to reveal Zelda. So he could get all three pieces of the Triforce. If Link was captured or killed Link would never be able to reveal Zelda and he would not be able to obtain the other two pieces of the Triforce.
With that in mind, the Gerudo are not liked, they are not nice people, they don't like Hyrule, they worship their king, and they steal as a form of substance and hatred, and they are stuck in a desert, which they hate. I'm sure they would gladly follow their king and try to take over Hyrule as the game states.
He did it on his own with the help of Link but without Link trying to get into the Temple of Time unlocking the sacred realm, I'm sure Ganondorf will need a little help. Also Ganondorf was trying to take over Hyrule more than likely with the help of his girls. That is till Link shows up and starts a whole chain of events which leads Ganondorf to do things on his own. He was going to lead his army into the land and overthrow the king, but when he discovered what Link was trying to do he decided to use Link to take it and obtain power of the Triforce. Since the allies of Hyrule wouldn't let him have the stones or keys to the Temple of Time he was going to weaken the Allies over throw the King and get the stones and gain ultimate power. With Link, he would obtain ultimate power and not involve his girls or a war, and he could obtain the kingdom in a nicely wrapped package.
Doing this as an accident Link will have to fix and somewhat prevent what was "somewhat" his fault. Even though Ganondorf was going to start a war he help Ganondorf get the Triforce trying to prevent what Ganondorf was going to do.
Ganondorf did however cause problems for the other allies so when he did start the war Hyrule would have no help. Also with them weak already, he could not only over throw the King but get the stones as I previously stated. When his plans messed up a bit and the Triforce split, he need Link to his own accord so he could get the other two. But now Link has already awoken a sage the other would awaken too. This would interfere with his plans to capture both Link and Zelda for the Triforce he will have to lock up and mess with the temples scattered across Hyrule to prevent their awakening, so they can't help Link and he can get the other Triforce pieces.
So with this more prevalent information, or logical nick picking of the original story, this leaves me to believe they didn't know about Link. Even so they were going to start a war anyway with Hyrule, which lead them to get cast into another realm, ultimately altering them through generations, turning them into the Twili. :3

well thought out. too bad you are forgetting one VERY important thing. Link has a shiled that is obviously hylian and a symbol of the royal family. you cant just assume that the Geruod dont notice his shield. i find it VERY hard to believe that they knowingly allowed Link to "be" one of them knowing hes their enemy. if what you say is true, then Link would have been attacked for being loyal to Hyrule, but we know he was ONLY attacked because he was a man. there is no ingame text from any of the female Gerudo saying that they love Ganondorf, they hate the desert, or that they dislike the Hylians.

i still stick to what im saying because (another analogy coming) if we saw someone wearing a shirt saying "i love bin laden" we would arrest them and take them in for questioning. if the Gerudo are loyal to Ganondorf and they saw someone who was obviously an ally (or in this case, the hero) of their ULTIMATE enemy, i think they would either capture them for questioning or just try to kill them altogether, but this doesnt happen. i rest my case =]

 

[Diligo]

well thought out. too bad you are forgetting one VERY important thing. Link has a shiled that is obviously hylian and a symbol of the royal family. you cant just assume that the Geruod dont notice his shield. i find it VERY hard to believe that they knowingly allowed Link to "be" one of them knowing hes their enemy. if what you say is true, then Link would have been attacked for being loyal to Hyrule, but we know he was ONLY attacked because he was a man. there is no ingame text from any of the female Gerudo saying that they love Ganondorf, they hate the desert, or that they dislike the Hylians.

i still stick to what im saying because (another analogy coming) if we saw someone wearing a shirt saying "i love bin laden" we would arrest them and take them in for questioning. if the Gerudo are loyal to Ganondorf and they saw someone who was obviously an ally (or in this case, the hero) of their ULTIMATE enemy, i think they would either capture them for questioning or just try to kill them altogether, but this doesnt happen. i rest my case =]

Alrighty, for the sake of "not" arguing any further I let you have this one.
Let's agree to disagree, I'm not going to change your mind (and your not gonna change mine), in fact that's not my intention anyway. I'm sure they're many explanations that, well, aren't explained, or the lack of. It could have been a flawed intention as far as developing the game, or in fact something missing that we can put our finger on. We need not to step any further because it feels as thought were "chasing our tails" and we are stuck on this one subject. I would love to progress but I feel like you and me will be at this none stop. :xd:

 

[Zemen]

Alrighty, for the sake of "not" arguing any further I let you have this one.
Let's agree to disagree, I'm not going to change your mind (and your not gonna change mine), in fact that's not my intention anyway. I'm sure they're many explanations that, well, aren't explained, or the lack of. It could have been a flawed intention as far as developing the game, or in fact something missing that we can put our finger on. We need not to step any further because it feels as thought were "chasing our tails" and we are stuck on this one subject. I would love to progress but I feel like you and me will be at this none stop. :xd:

yeah, but that just shows how much we really love it!

 

[Japua_<3s_Ralis]

I remeber reading somewhere, that there is a gossip stone that mentions that the gerudo are not native to hyrule. You can kinda tell because they have small rounded ears where all of the other races that have ears are shown to have larger pointy ears. This could be a note saying that the gerudo are from a neighboring country (Termina?) and that they were a band of pirates and theives. I do have to agree also with the thoery of the Gerudo being the Twili it makes too much sense.

 

[Zemen]

I remeber reading somewhere, that there is a gossip stone that mentions that the gerudo are not native to hyrule. You can kinda tell because they have small rounded ears where all of the other races that have ears are shown to have larger pointy ears. This could be a note saying that the gerudo are from a neighboring country (Termina?) and that they were a band of pirates and theives. I do have to agree also with the thoery of the Gerudo being the Twili it makes too much sense.

doesnt make much sense to me for a couple reasons. first of all there is only one Gerudo male every 100 years and Zant AND Ganon/dorf are both males, but according to Gerudo lore, only one male exists at a time and that one male is the leader of the Gerudo, BUT Zant is not the leader of the Twili, Midna is, infact, it doesnt even seem that Zant had any sort of leadership role among the twili. it would be hard for me to believe that their race changed so much that their male went from being the leader to being next to nothing. my other reasons are stated above.

and also, if you are going by the one male every one 100 years thing, that would mean every twili creature you fight is female. the way the Gerudo people would reproduce is by mating with hylian males. in order to survive to the point where they could reproduce without a male would take a VERY long time, but there is no way that a race of all females and one male would survive long enough to evolve to that point.

 

[Diligo]

doesnt make much sense to me for a couple reasons. first of all there is only one Gerudo male every 100 years and Zant AND Ganon/dorf are both males, but according to Gerudo lore, only one male exists at a time and that one male is the leader of the Gerudo, BUT Zant is not the leader of the Twili, Midna is, infact, it doesnt even seem that Zant had any sort of leadership role among the twili. it would be hard for me to believe that their race changed so much that their male went from being the leader to being next to nothing. my other reasons are stated above.

and also, if you are going by the one male every one 100 years thing, that would mean every twili creature you fight is female. the way the Gerudo people would reproduce is by mating with hylian males. in order to survive to the point where they could reproduce without a male would take a VERY long time, but there is no way that a race of all females and one male would survive long enough to evolve to that point.

Hello I'm back!
It would be nice if the game actually stated that.
As it was said in TP he was supposed to be the leader as the tradition goes but no one trusted him so they gave it over to Midna. Not only that but as to whoever they were they are no longer they are now a completely different race.

With the whole "they are now a completely different race" complex. It's been 100's of years and there would have been several men born. Not only that but the comparison of Zant and Midna among the rest of the twili are completely different. Which leads me to believe they aren't the only one type of twili in there. Sorta like your a Hyrulian if you live in Hyrule but Hylians are the dominant race. Besides for whatever race you want to believe where banished they would have to fuse with another type to become what they are now. They didn't enter the realm and automatically become what they are now. It even stated when they first entered they were shadows till they were excepted into their new home.

 

[Zemen]

i found something very interesting yesterday. i just finished replaying through OoT and at the end of the game during the credits there are a bunch of people celebrating the defeat of ganondorf. now during this celebration there is a very short (maybe one or two second) view where you clearly see a line of Gerudos doing a show girl dance, celebrating with everyone else. now if they worshiped ganondorf like a god, why would they be celebrating his defeat with everyone else (including the Hylians that supposedly dont like them according to what some of you say)?

 

[Diligo]

i found something very interesting yesterday. i just finished replaying through OoT and at the end of the game during the credits there are a bunch of people celebrating the defeat of ganondorf. now during this celebration there is a very short (maybe one or two second) view where you clearly see a line of Gerudos doing a show girl dance, celebrating with everyone else. now if they worshiped ganondorf like a god, why would they be celebrating his defeat with everyone else (including the Hylians that supposedly dont like them according to what some of you say)?

This is after he had reign over Hyrule and Link defeated him. The game states this I'm enforcing it I wish people would quit ignoring what the game says.

 

[Zemen]

This is after he had reign over Hyrule and Link defeated him. The game states this I'm enforcing it I wish people would quit ignoring what the game says.

no one is ignoring what you say. whether or not the gossip stones say they worship him like a god doesnt exactly matter. who knows how old the gossip stones are? who knows how old ganondorf is? those stones and ganondorf could have been around for quite some time, and over time the feelings of the Gerudo people could have changed just as ganondorfs motives in life changed to him wanting to take over Hyrule.

the game states they worship him like a god, this is contradicted by them CELEBRATING his defeat, which is also in the game.

you would have to waste time to get the mask of truth to talk to the gossip stones to know what that ONE gossip stone says, whereas no matter what you do, if you beat the game, you are going to see celebrating Gerudo (if you pay attention).

i would see that as more proof to them not really liking ganondorf than the stone saying they worship him.

 

[Diligo]

no one is ignoring what you say. whether or not the gossip stones say they worship him like a god doesnt exactly matter. who knows how old the gossip stones are? who knows how old ganondorf is? those stones and ganondorf could have been around for quite some time, and over time the feelings of the Gerudo people could have changed just as ganondorfs motives in life changed to him wanting to take over Hyrule.

the game states they worship him like a god, this is contradicted by them CELEBRATING his defeat, which is also in the game.

you would have to waste time to get the mask of truth to talk to the gossip stones to know what that ONE gossip stone says, whereas no matter what you do, if you beat the game, you are going to see celebrating Gerudo (if you pay attention).

i would see that as more proof to them not really liking ganondorf than the stone saying they worship him.

Alright so this whole argument has been about the fact you don't think the Gerudo's like him thus they wouldn't follow him, and wouldn't have been banished right?
Well your right they don't like him, Nabooru being the only outspoken one. The Twins say that she has a major influence on the girls and they look up to her, probably meaning everyone's dislike towards Ganondorf her being the cause (trying to blame her) but they HAVE to follow him and do what he says despite true feelings. They HAVE to worship him, and follow him as their king and god despite how they feel or not, it is their ancestral and traditional law. If they don't he will brainwash them (or the twins will) and they will have to do it anyways. So as a ruler of his own people if he ask them to jump they have better say how high, your majesty?

Not only by law but he is very powerful entity and I'm sure no one will argue with that logic. Also at the beginning of OOT they were oppressed and looked up to him for a better life but when he got his power. Thinking that no one would stop him he probably decided to leave them in the desert, thinking he wouldn't need them anymore. That probably pissed them off, hince the celebration at the end. He really cares about them but when he gets his power no one is equal to him. He makes his concern and love for his people in WW the fact the he dumped them has only to do with his power and lust for it.

Plus in OOT Zelda, disguised as Sheik, said he lead his army into Hyrule and took over. TP probably takes place at the event of this happening, he lead an army into Hyrule to dominate it and that is what the Sages where referring to. His army and those who followed him were sentence to death and those of were there by banished.

That and the Gossip stones are then only information that anyone can look for in the game. They are there for a reason, if it's in the game I'm going with it, I don't think the creator put them there for no reason. It gives fun facts about tid bits of the game.

I have a HUGE list of quotes that state that the Sheikah are dead or dwindle way and that Ganondorf's army or the Gerudos are the ones who were behind it. Sorry but I have to go with what the games says not impressions and opinionated assumptions. I know it seems screwy but it is what it is. I just came seem to understand why people are having a hard time believing it's them.

 

[Zemen]

you do realize that there is nothing anywhere that states that ganondorfs army is his Gerudo people. in OoT, there are only like 10 Gerudo in the entire game. i highly doubt that was his army.

and if you recall, Ganondorf had control over a multitude of dungeon bosses and monsters. whats to say his army doesnt consist of the same random monsters Link had to fight through his adventures in OoT?

 

[Diligo]

you do realize that there is nothing anywhere that states that ganondorfs army is his Gerudo people. in OoT, there are only like 10 Gerudo in the entire game. i highly doubt that was his army.

and if you recall, Ganondorf had control over a multitude of dungeon bosses and monsters. whats to say his army doesnt consist of the same random monsters Link had to fight through his adventures in OoT?

So your saying that the Twili are monster demons even though it was stated that it was a race of people or tribe, who followed Ganondorf, who were banished. The Gerudo are no where in sight, besides the connection of the Twili it never states where they are. Even though Ganondorf was the King of the band of thieves that he lead, being warriors of some type you still want to argue this logic?
Also if you look at the game, and I assume this has to do with the limit they had for size for the game (MM had to have an expansion because there were to many characters there wasn't given enough space), there is only a few people or characters that are emphasized to be a group. I'm sure 12 people do not make up the castle town, or 6 Gorons make up their entire race, you know better than that.

Ok fine whatever, I'm not trying to change your mind, but your making things way more intricate than what is really there. You just instigating something that is pretty much explanatory. To me your just arguing to argue, despite it is clearly stated and evidence to back it up.

Ok you don't believe it's them, this you have made clear. Despite the inevitability, what race do you think it is then?

 

[Zemen]

So your saying that the Twili are monster demons even though it was stated that it was a race of people or tribe, who followed Ganondorf, who were banished. The Gerudo are no where in sight, besides the connection of the Twili it never states where they are. Even though Ganondorf was the King of the band of thieves that he lead, being warriors of some type you still want to argue this logic?
Also if you look at the game, and I assume this has to do with the limit they had for size for the game (MM had to have an expansion because there were to many characters there wasn't given enough space), there is only a few people or characters that are emphasized to be a group. I'm sure 12 people do not make up the castle town, or 6 Gorons make up their entire race, you know better than that.

Ok fine whatever, I'm not trying to change your mind, but your making things way more intricate than what is really there. You just instigating something that is pretty much explanatory. To me your just arguing to argue, despite it is clearly stated and evidence to back it up.

Ok you don't believe it's them, this you have made clear. Despite the inevitability, what race do you think it is then?

it never says anywhere in twilight princess that the race banished to the twili realm followed ganondorf. where is your in game quote for that one?

in fact, ganondorf isnt even mentioned in the game til you find out he is controlling Zant, so i have no idea what youre talking about.

 

[MrMosley]

it never says anywhere in twilight princess that the race banished to the twili realm followed ganondorf. where is your in game quote for that one?

in fact, ganondorf isnt even mentioned in the game til you find out he is controlling Zant, so i have no idea what youre talking about.

Even if it dosen't say it right as you would expect it to be said, word for word like that, it dosen't rule it out, and you seem to believe that these games have to be word for word or they are untrue. You have to think about just general ideas, like the fact that there was a war to get into the Sacred Realm in which Ganondorf succeeded and killed off many of his own army. If you read the ALttP manual, you find this out.

That is what Midna is basically talking about. She tells about how the race was trying to get to the Sacred Realm, she tells you this when you get to the Gerudo Desert which can't just be coincidence. All you gotta do is connect the events from one game and know what references they are making in the next. If every Zelda title had to re-write and state word for word, detail by detail what exactly happend, then it would be ignorant. Legends aren't detailed because they lose bits and pieces over time until your left with a basic story of what happend, and with each game we find out that the intro or a story within the game is a legend which generally refers to a prior game or event in the series.