General Mafia Discussion

[Kybyrian]

I think that's kind of the opposite of allowing people to just make their own games.

Better than letting a terrible game run and then blacklisting them from ever modding again. I think inexperienced mods often don't get the full enjoyment they really look for in modding a mafia game and can be discouraged from trying it again if they don't have a good setup. At the least, they should want someone to proofread their game for balance. The first game is really a big step in getting involved in the modding of games and being able to enjoy yourself with it. Learning from your mistakes is fine, but you have other people on the end of this with a limited number of games going on at the time as well, and it keeps people from being discouraged because they messed up. It's good to really immerse them with this sort of co-mod experience.

...? I think you misread and are remembering past situations. This has nothing to do with bad players; that is purely up to the game mod and/or forum moderators if the behavior is actually in violation of board rules (like trolling or the like).

No, I didn't misread anything. It was just something I thought of and decided to throw in; it wasn't a response to anything anyone said.

 

[Xinnamin]

I don't like the co-mod idea because it ends up being another method of telling people who is allowed to mod a game on their own, as we've basically done before. I think that's kind of the opposite of allowing people to just make their own games.

I'm just suggesting that very first time mods should get a helping hand from an experienced mod. Not saying the co-mod has to like....studiously check through every single role to make sure everything's ok and look over every lynch scene or death scene to make sure it's not overly revealing or anything, they could just be there to glance over the roles and make sure the unconventional ones aren't broken or advise on possible areas where things could go wrong. Nothing is worse than a game falling apart because the setup was flawed.

 

[DeletedUser9]

It's not terrible, although I'd prefer to still leave it open.

Assuming that this is the case, though, and we also don't want a single person running it, how do we decide who's a viable co-mod for the new people, and how do we decide who's ruining games and needs to be blacklisted from modding?

 

[Xinnamin]

Any experienced, trusted game mod, ie Austin, Viral, Wyatt, Axle, etc who choose to volunteer could easily co-mod or just guide the newer mods. Mafia has been going on here long enough the established mods are all known. I mean, I see it as more a mentorship than a true co-mod anyways.

idk about blacklists, I'll field that to Wyatt.

 

[Djinn]

How about instead of assigning co-mods you make something like a general help for questions or make a short list of experienced mods that are willing to lend their time somewhere in a stickied thread so that newcomers know who to come to? This of course means that a few people will have to volunteer themselves as a goto for mafia info and help and would be contacted at any time for it.

 

[DeletedUser9]

How about instead of assigning co-mods you make something like a general help for questions or make a short list of experienced mods that are willing to lend their time somewhere in a stickied thread so that newcomers know who to come to? This of course means that a few people will have to volunteer themselves as a goto for mafia info and help and would be contacted at any time for it.

Yeah, I like the idea of having abundant, available help resources rather than a strict enforcement over having all new people require a co-mod. I feel like this would be more effective anyway in letting people get the right amount of help they need while letting them do as they please with their games.

 

[Austin]

However, this neglects a few facts: I have three people on the waiting list for modding my Mafia games already. Two are you and Viral, which I'm assuming no longer count. The other is Violet. Beyond her, I get requests fairly often, and as has been made clear two people (GWAF and Atticus) are immediately interested in starting their own games. That means there is a minimum of 3 new Mafia games about to start if people just do everything freely.

That's assuming they all automatically start their own games the moment you step down. I'll try to refute this with an example. Right now, for the lettered series, we have Josh tentatively modding Mafia G, Hero of Time signed on for Mafia H, and Darknut_Hunter for Mafia I.

I have faith that if I were to disappear tomorrow, or announce that I would not be organizing the lettered series any further, that they would not simply go ahead and start their games simultaneously. I feel pretty certain that they would stick to the original order and someone else may step up to head the series again, simply because this is the common sense approach and we're all reasonable people.

That's on top of two existing Mafia games and Beginner's Mafia.

6 games going at once.

You spoke of not getting enough participation in Mafia, and I feel like having six games going at once is basically going to murder that participation further. Now, obviously all the game mods can simply convene and discuss who goes when. But why not just simplify that and make it semi official with a queue and a few games going on at the same time?

Well, I don't think six games going at once once would be particularly ideal (although it very well could be), but probably not for the reasons you are. I spoke of Beginner's Mafia and regular Mafia cutting the playerbase in half. This isn't because of the fact that they're two separate games, but rather two separate categories of games. They encourage different types of players to sign up for one game and not the other. During Mafia D, I saw several members express that while Mafia D looked interesting, they didn't want to play because it was an "advanced" game, and they felt they should stick to "beginner's".

On the other end, with Mafia 7 and Mafia A, you had two games going on at almost the exact same time, with largely the same player base. I don't think it hindered either game however. You also had Mafia XIV and Mafia D//E happening at the same time, and they did not really interfere with each other.

Well, I intended it to be community-run; as I said, if at any point the number of games going on at a time turns out to be not enough and there are people waiting to play a game, all they need to do is chime in to totally overrule my (or whoever's) call on waiting to start any new games. In other words, whoever's running the queue does little more than busywork writing down names and going by a common sense set number of games... and can be overruled at any time by people simply saying they want to play another game. Then the next game is started. No problem.

I don't disagree with the idea of organization so much as I disagree with the manner in which it is coming about and being implemented. I fundamentally disagree with the idea that we need one singular person at the head of things, even as a last-resort kind of guy.

 

[DeletedUser9]

That's assuming they all automatically start their own games the moment you step down. I'll try to refute this with an example. Right now, for the lettered series, we have Josh tentatively modding Mafia G, Hero of Time signed on for Mafia H, and Darknut_Hunter for Mafia I.

I have faith that if I were to disappear tomorrow, or announce that I would not be organizing the lettered series any further, that they would not simply go ahead and start their games simultaneously. I feel pretty certain that they would stick to the original order and someone else may step up to head the series again, simply because this is the common sense approach and we're all reasonable people.

The people on my list are not entirely aware of the exactness of the order they go in, however -- whether that's just because of my bad organizing or not -- and even if they did, that still wouldn't include additional people like GWAF and Atticus and whoever else might want to make their own game. Having the list and queue is effectively exactly what you're describing, but common among all players and not arbitrated by a few -- you and I -- and more importantly, visible to all and actively edited into the top of the first post of the queue/signup thread.

Well, I don't think six games going at once once would be particularly ideal (although it very well could be), but probably not for the reasons you are. I spoke of Beginner's Mafia and regular Mafia cutting the playerbase in half. This isn't because of the fact that they're two separate games, but rather two separate categories of games. They encourage different types of players to sign up for one game and not the other. During Mafia D, I saw several members express that while Mafia D looked interesting, they didn't want to play because it was an "advanced" game, and they felt they should stick to "beginner's".

On the other end, with Mafia 7 and Mafia A, you had two games going on at almost the exact same time, with largely the same player base. I don't think it hindered either game however. You also had Mafia XIV and Mafia D//E happening at the same time, and they did not really interfere with each other.

Well in the system I proposed, basically the community would be actively in control over how many games happen at the same time, so I don't see what the quarrel with my setup is on this point specifically.

I don't disagree with the idea of organization so much as I disagree with the manner in which it is coming about and being implemented. I fundamentally disagree with the idea that we need one singular person at the head of things, even as a last-resort kind of guy.

I guess that's just a personal disagreement then. Just as we have moderators making sure members follow the rules, and just as we have single people running each individual Community Competition, and teams of people who run other events like the Golden Key Awards, I think having a leadership in place to run the basics and manage the busywork of Mafia is necessary; it's the setup that works best on forums in my experience with them, even if community involvement and member input is a huge factor.

 

[Xinnamin]

I guess that's just a personal disagreement then. Just as we have moderators making sure members follow the rules, and just as we have single people running each individual Community Competition, and teams of people who run other events like the Golden Key Awards, I think having a leadership in place to run the basics and manage the busywork of Mafia is necessary; it's the setup that works best on forums in my experience with them, even if community involvement and member input is a huge factor.

Dunno about Austin, but I don't really see the mafia section as needing a leader persay, and being a community game with a rather large playerbase, certainly not a single leader. If anything, all you'd need is to have mods pop in now and again to update the queue list. The mafia community has been managing itself very well as a whole thus far. I mean ya, leader looks great on paper, but it's all been pretty loosely run for the past idk how long and nothing's broken yet. The people who are most invested in the game end up coming to the forefront as organizers anyways, without needing to be crowned leader of the section.

 

[Libk]

Ok what about this. We create a sign up list where Experienced mods are designated as people to send the design to to make sure the game isn't heavily skewed in one sides favor. If their name on the list is red, their game has either not been sent in to be approved, or wasn't approved by their mod. Say for example I sign up to host a game and am told Axle is who I should send the design to. I send it in, he looks over it a d says ok, or says he feels it is in Town's favor too much. If the later, he would then suggest possibly dumbing down roles or taking some out. Once changes are made, the. Game goes green on the list. Now the people on the list are in order of who signed up first. If you are at the top of the list, you are to host next(But only if your name is green) if it goes a bit with need of a new game, and top of the list isn't green, you go to the first green name on the list. A game that is ready to go. We could have 2-3 games run at the same time, we could have 5 Experienced mods to look over designs(only one mod per game), and it could be kept quite orderly. Of course if Axle is the mod to look over my design he wouldnt be able tp play that game when I host it, but that's why a different experienced mod looks over design every time. So all experienced mods can still play games. This will get a chance to help new people design games that aren't too unbalanced, and creates an organized way to determine who mods next.

Just my idea though, and happy to explain if anything sounds confusing

 

[Austin]

Well in the system I proposed, basically the community would be actively in control over how many games happen at the same time, so I don't see what the quarrel with my setup is on this point specifically.

I guess I perceived a disagreement that wasn't actually there, sorry.

I guess that's just a personal disagreement then. Just as we have moderators making sure members follow the rules, and just as we have single people running each individual Community Competition, and teams of people who run other events like the Golden Key Awards, I think having a leadership in place to run the basics and manage the busywork of Mafia is necessary; it's the setup that works best on forums in my experience with them, even if community involvement and member input is a huge factor.

I guess I can get behind the idea of a framework. Perhaps it can be similar to the Event Staff where it's basically a small group of people organizing it, and if anyone is interested in helping out, they can.

 

[Viral Maze]

Xin is reading my mind, apparently.

I like this co-mod/mod consultant idea. I'm finding I have less and less time to play recently, and I prefer being on the other side of the curtain and helping mods, or modding myself.

 

[Ronin]

Vote: New System

Yes...this will help quell dedicated factions which gather information from the game mod and use that dirt to practically make the game easier for themselves; if ever something like this were to arise, of course.

While I've never modded a game, personally, and am unsure where I ever will, this plan still sounds like it can and will work. Certain games will pretty much require a new mod to have the assistance of an experienced co-mod, like Xinn prescribed, so I completely agree with that. It would work well with Beginner games, giving the players and the mod the experience that they seek. It should be for their benefit, after all, so that they can enjoy letting others learn through their organization. Other than that, the rest of the games will likely have experienced mods at the helm. And...the rest of this projected system will work itself out; unforeseen circumstances aside...

 

[Sydney]

What's MLP?

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[Viral Maze]

To revive this discussion, and with Mafia F done, I have no idea whos up next. Numbered mafia has been dead for a month and I'm not in the know about the lettered games. With that said, I think we should start up a queue now. It keeps everything organized so everyone knows who's up next and what theme they're thinking of. First come, first serve. Post that you want to do a game and post theme. No ********, no random posts (or very little of it), just a queue.