@ Seanzie
1) "Technique" is not what I would describe just saying whatever comes to your mind and running with it. It's clearly too early, as I've already indicated earlier to DW and as you've just affirmed yourself, for anything to actually catch scum. If you want to make reads off of it by all means; however, your reads are based on paper thin, opinionated perspectives with no basis in any in depth analysis because, again, still too early.
This is the same thing I threw at DW for putting pressure onto me for as if acting like you'd catch scum from any sort of trivial conversation where one feeling or another won't make or break the game. At best, you're just assuming with your interactions -- and that's fine. Just don't act like it's going to make or break the game when we've got plenty of pages and days to come upon.
2) I'm able to read just fine, and as I've stated is exactly what I observed. Isett put forth a discussion point which is something DW wanted and you've clearly indicated is just fine. Isett clearly indicated a point that is worthwhile in talking about (as has been seen with some responses) and noted that it'll help with pushing discussion. YOU made it a point to say that it is NAI -- both *town* and scum can push that kind of talking point. That's it. There's nothing else to read into that. A "vibe" that you can't quantify doesn't prove or help with a read other than it being some irrational thing you've formulated and put out there.
Here's an idea I'd like to hear thoughts on and maybe possibly generate my entire day 1 reads list off of:
What do you think of hider cover similar to the way some people seer/cop cover (ie, if I was a cop I would have peeked player X)?
Personally I can't decide on where I'd put the cost/benefit ratio. I do have a few ideas on how to weaponize it for hunting. But overall I think the major value would be a directional talking point rather than aimless chatter.
That is Isett's post that you keep talking about. At no point in his post is he actually *SPECULATING* about the setup of the game. That's something you entirely came up with out of nowhere on your own. What Isett proposed is offering cover for the hider by posting a simply "I targeted X if I were the hider," or some such thing.
Setup spec is NAI, but someone making a first post trying to look helpful by saying "we should talk about the setup" while not actually having thought about the setup is >rand!wolf
Nothing about Isett's suggestion or post is as you put forth. So really what are you doing here? Misrepping Isett? Because that's what it looks like based on the contrast of how you describe Isett's post and the actual content of Isett's post.
And no, hard disagree. Discussion for the sake of discussion is always good because that's what town has mostly. That's all town has. And Isett's suggestion/observation certainly bore out to be true (and even on a theory point it is still true as you would be better off with actual discussion vs aimless chatter that scum can hide in). Nothing you've said here actually bears out to be the case *ESPECIALLY* when all you have are "vibes" as if that's going to help with any concrete scum hunting.
Isett, at the very least, helped put forth not only a viable topic that is worth doing as it gives PR cover, but you've gone so far as being unable to read his post and represent it properly either because you're maliciously doing it or you just made a mistake. With 40 games under your belt either could be the case wouldn't you say?
3)
The first day is RSV/speculation short of those interactions you'd want. Isett generated that in spades, yet you saw fit to say that discussion for the sake of discussion isn't always good. Ha.
That's the basis for forming everything later on, as I touched upon previously, for town because you'll want to look back at how those people interacted or what stances they took on top of voting records.
4)
Inconsistency is inconsistency especially if the outlook doesn't make sense/isn't backed up. Changing up a perspective you had isn't always bad, but if it comes from a place where previously that wasn't what you believed, it raises eyebrows. Anyone can be inconsistent even wolves. It also depends on the player because not all players play the same way.
Either way, wrt to DW, my judgment remains my own despite your perspective. You've offered it, and that's good enough.
5) Scum want to play it safe. Trying to be overly friendly is just as odd as doing something that attracts attention, but hey you have your thoughts and I have mine.
As for how I know you're wrong:
Because you're clearly putting more into Isett's post than it actually there. You are not doing your due diligence in actually reading his post, and then you go on to drone about how he's speculating the setup when he's clearly not.
Here's your response to DW concerning Isett's post:
Mostly just because I feel it in my bones, and go almost entirely by vibes in the early game.
Buttt..... if I had to say something more concrete, I'd point out that you seem to be giving them towny points for initating setup spec discussion, which IMO is NAI. However, they gave themselves an out to base their D1 reads just on how people reply to setup spec, and IMO that is a red flag since again setup spec is NAI (easy for wolves to do, especially since many people do setup spec before they get their rolecards), and it leaves them the ability to pick and choose who gave "good thoughts" and "bad thoughts" without really having to explain why those people are suspicious.
But now, they seem to propose a strategy... but they are completely missing the actual value of that strategy, so for someone who wants to talk setup, I don't feel like they've actually considered how different strategies could benefit town (in particular, they seem to think the strategy's benefit would be to generate chatter rather than y'know... clear people).
Finally, the first post is one of the most vulnerable as wolves. As town, there is no pressure so it is easy to make a first post, but as a wolf, the pressure is greatest then (and after the first post, it is easier for wolves to get into the swing of things), so wolves tend to make certain types of first posts, and this sort of "vaguely helpful while asking a question" type first post is >rand!wolf IMO.
Vibes -- lol.
Concrete point: Not so much. Someone else offering townie points to Isett isn't Isett's fault or problem. Isett put forth a valid discussion topic (offering PR cover) while commenting that it'll help spur his D1 reads (that's fair for him and certainly a lot better than your vibes that you had to be asked about) and it'll help spur talking as opposed to aimless chatter. That's all valid. And despite all that, it's just as you said -- NAI. Speculating setup -- which is not what Isett even suggested in the first place mind you -- is certainly NAI when the setup is known; however, Isett's talking point was about offering PR cover and going from that to judge how he'd read people over the conversation. Nothing about that is a red flag (no more so than just reading people and giving a vibe -- something I will continually hit you with as it's certainly an out as opposed to something more meaty to dig into like this entire discussion point).
Picking and choosing people who gave good or bad thoughts is no more a red flag than speculating setup (or in this case talking about PR cover and what spawns from that). There's more to be said about reading people from the resulting discussion though, and that's entirely a point in Isett's favor and a negative one in yours.
Talk of strategy: What is your point here? Never mind that you're consistently incorrect about Isett talking about setup, but Isett only posted an idea about offering PR cover which helps facilitate an environment where the PR can only put out their reads and be referred to in the event of their demise. And, correct me if I'm wrong, the hider dies when hiding behind scum so why wouldn't you want the hider to be able to effectively put out a legacy will that condemns their target in the event the hider dies behind scum?
The more I think about it, the more negative you come out looking for trying to quell/misrep Isett's post. How so? Because if you don't have a collective coordination from town to offer cover to the hider, then the hider can't freely put out their target with the rest of the town. That means the hider has to remain quiet and not talk until further into the game if they live that long. Meanwhile scum can PR hunt the hider while guesstimating who is not the PR effectively lowering their PoE. Sounds like a point in Isett's favor for offering something that is actually to the benefit of town, don't you think?
Aside from the mechanical aspect, it's not like Isett said other strategies can't be employed. You, on the other hand, have been quick to dog on Isett's proposed strategy despite your own approach of using vibes (lol).
Finally, lol to the first post is the most vulnerable.
Unvote, Vote: Seanzie
At this point you've certainly acted much more scummy wrt to everything that has come up as opposed to DW. You've earned my vote for the rest of today, Seanzie.
