Forest, Fire, Water ~ How is It Overused?

[TheMinish]

Hey all, it's TheMinish here with a quick post on the so called 'overused' Zelda convention of the first 3 temples and dungeons being theme in the order of Forest, Fire and Water.

I see this mainly on forum communities such as here and Zelda Universe. The thing is, this order has only served very few of the Zelda games. Let's take a look at the Zelda games that have visible dungeon themes. (Zelda 1, 2, Link's Awakening, OOX and ALTTP will not be included as they do not have distinguishable themes)

Ocarina of Time - Forest, Fire, Water - FOLLOWS ORDER
Majora's Mask - Forest, Ice, Water
The Wind Waker - Fire, Forest, Light
The Minish Cap - Forest, Fire, Wind
Twilight Princess - Forest, Fire, Water - FOLLOWS ORDER

See? Only 2 games released to this point follow this order. So those who deem the Forest, Fire, Water convention is overused, should reconsider.

 

[Ventus]

It isn't so much that the FFW order is overused, the real 'problem' is the perpetuated "collect three items, plot twist, collect moar items, final boss" structure instilled by A Link to the Past and touched upon by Ocarina of Time. So, people assume Skyward Sword is going to do away with collecting three items and then a plot twist, as evidenced by out of dungeon boss fights and the like.

 

[Wolf Sage]

As VanitasXII implies, the "conventional order" appears overused because of the infamous item collecting in the plot structure. For many, admittedly myself, those two aspects go hand and hand, or so it appears as such. Ocarina of Time and A Link to the Past, as Vanitas mentions, both serve to give us this impression; partially due to their tremendous influence on the series.

 

[TheMinish]

Oh, I see, So it's not necessarily that the themes are over used, but the Collect 3 things - Master Sword - X amount of new items.

 

[Ventus]

Precisely. Though, people do argue that because Twilight Princess felt like a huge rehash of OoT, that the dungeon structure is stale as well. Personally speaking, I don't think the order of elemental dungeons is out of whack, but that the Water Temple of any Zelda game is ALWAYS the hardest one. Perhaps if the traditional Water elements (puzzles that drive you to the depths of insanity) were transferred to other dungeons though with the addition of extra combat, then the FFW wouldn't be attacked as much as it is [I'm not saying you are attacking it, TheMinish].

 

[TheMinish]

I'll quickly make this clear too, I actually like the forest, fire, water setup I wouldn't care even if it was overused.

 

[green goron]

I sort of agree wit Vanitas and Skyward Sword already confirmed that the first two temples are forest and fire

 

[bulbasaur]

The thing is even if the dungeons don't follow the FFW order the Items you must obtain do, three pendants, three stones, three pearls always Farore, Din, Nayru. which if you look at the description of which goddess does what makes perfect sense for the FFW setup, i mean tWW was real fire, forest water but the water dungeon was removed and Jubun just gave you the peal.

But tbh Fantasy always relies on the same elements. Fire, Water, Earth, Wind, Life, death, Good, Evil, blablabla....Human being aren't very original creatures, i think people should stop worrying about the order of dungeons and just enjoy the originality of the dungeon design/over-world design, NPC's/ side-quests/anything else that makes Zelda original

 

[Snake]

I agree with you in that the Forest, Fire, Water themes aren't that overused. Honestly, these these are used more in Mario games than in Zelda games. Also, there are creative ideas that go along with these themes, mixed with some old ones, which can make great puzzles. It is a good idea to throw in a new theme every once in a while, but these three should not be dropped. There are other themes along with these three that are becoming more popular - such as Ice and Sand, and I like that. I would much rather prefer these themed dungeons rather than every dungeon being similar - as in the case of the Legend of Zelda (first game).

I wish, and expect, to see these three themes appear in dungeons in Skyward Sword, and any future Zelda games. As with the order or sequence of events in a Zelda game, I'm fine with those too. I like the two main patterns. One is the three dungeons, Master Sword, few more dungeons, final boss (the one I like more), and the other frequent one is like eight dungeons in a row, then the final boss (seen in LoZ, LA, OoS, OoA). Once again, new patterns would be good too.