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Effective Villains

Shadsie

Sage of Tales
I've been thinking lately about the nature of Evil in the Legend of Zelda series, monsters and ur-villains. I've been thinking about how much I like that there are a few "good" monsters roaming around, some shady people and the varying natures of Sources of evil, the greater villains.

I was just on a blog I watch where a book series I semi-regret I used to read gets dissected and discussed and some comparison was made between characters and things of actual history. I realized that from what I remember, I never found the villain to be very effective. He didn't scare me as much or make me feel the villainy as much as I have in other things, including this very "fairy tale style" videogame series that can *get away with* not having much villain-exposition because it's a game and you don't want to slog through a lot of novel-style back story to get to the sword slashing, puzzle solving and Hyrule-exploring, duh!

That's when I realized, The Legend of Zelda does have some effectual villains. Some within the series strike me as better than others, however.

If you ever take up writing / storytelling and you want to have a scary and/or angry-making "Big Bad" or ur-evil, you can go a variety of routes. You can have the power-hungry tyrant type (as a single person or as a group, actually) that wants to destroy Freedom. You can have the Knight Templar type who doesn't want to destroy Freedom for destruction's sake, but because they really think they are creating a greater good. You can have the great cosmic evil that may or may not be willfully "evil" but simply a destructive force that does not care or something from beyond that cannot be fully comprehended. You can have the "crazy" or "twisted in the head" villain who wants to hurt people because for them, pain is fun. You can have a comedic villain - usually a chacter who is drunk on their own over-the-topness and shows it.

Let's analyze some Zelda villains, shall we?


Cosmic / Uncomprehensible Horror:

In my opinion, this has been done both well and poorly in the Zelda series.

Where it has been done well - Majora's Mask. Majora is one of those "mysterious" villains that actually comes across as mysterious, and the buildup with it really does give the feel of a cosmic or unstoppable natural force that we are all afraid of, such as Death, Darkness, Lonliness - all of those rolled up into one. The fact that this mysterious and very chaotic evil hijacks a lonely child (Skullkid) makes it even more frightening, the implication being that this myserious...thing... is feeding upon the despair in someone's *heart,* that an innocent being is being used as a collaborator to and genretor of evil. There's no clear motive with Majora save destruction and ending for destruction and ending's sake. It is a Thing That Does Not Care. is a place where some would say this falls apart: The Reveal - when Link finally gets to fight Majora, it becomes this bizarre, goofy, gyrating *thing.* It's like one of the Nostalgia Critic's dissections of Stephen King TV miniseries - where the mysterious evil turns out to be a badly puppeteered giant spider or something equally narmy. Still, on the whole, Majora does play to the "mysterious evil that's scary because of its mystery" well.

Where this has been done poorly - The Imprisoned in Skyward Sword. I really think that Nintendo was trying to go for this "weird, incomprehnsible thing" with the character. It has a vauge resemblance to the Night Walker in Princess Mononoke. It has a maw full of knife-like teeth. I can't remember Link's dream in the beginning of the game precisely, but I remmeber it being fairly frightening because not much of the big black thing in it was shown and Link was consumed by the maw of teeth... (if I'm even remembering it right). However, instead of disappointing us at the end with the silly look of the being ala a King-based miniseries, this game does so right from the first apperance of the creature's three-times in action. I looks like a Muppet! Something in me thinks that some people at Nintendo found it genuinely scary - being this maw of teeth with legs, but it's honestly something that's more scary in *concept* than in actual look. The Imprisoned kind of reminds me of the title entities in "The Langoliers." The concept of relentlessly ravenous time-eating things that the human mind is not supposed to be able to grok is scary, but the hairy bowling balls with maws of teeth, given an actual visual, are ridiculous. The Imprisoned, I think, was meant to represent an all-consuming darkness, hence this walking all-mouth creature, but... it winds up looking downright cuddly becuase it's just a mouth with legs!


Tyrants that Do Something:

I think that Ganondorf is a good villain, particularly in Ocarina of Time. He is pretty much a cliched fairy tale muwahaha! villain, but he is actually given some frightening elements, and in OoT is much-evolved from his earlier, much more cliched roots. One of the things that makes a good villain for me is having them do things and be personally involved. Bomb a city and yawn doesn't do it for me, especially if the heroes of your story don't really know or care about it, either. Ganondorf, for all his high and mighty Ivory Tower (or in his case, Evil Tower) villainy, is shown to get his hands dirty and to personally mess with the people he's subjugating.

He sends his monsters to curse the Great Deku Tree to death, which makes things personal for Link. He awakens an ancient dragon and imprisons the Gorons to be fed to it. His taking of the Triforce of Power dooms Castle Town to a ReDead infested ruin.

Here's a case for his mothers, too. Twinrova brainwash one of the Sages and forces her to fight Link - and consequently, this forces Link to fight, injure and possibly kill (depending upon your intepretation of that scenario) one of his allies!

In Twilight Princess, the spirit of Ganondorf used a power hungry Twili royal as a vehicle for the direct causing of the usurping of a princess who cared about her people and the turning of Hyrule into a world of oblivious, but miserable and frightened shades. Zant did not run the coup alone, he had been given power by his "god," Ganondorf.

Ganondorf is actually more aloof than some very effective villains in fiction. I think I'm always going to be more afraid of that Russian mob boss in Firefly who personally loves to torture people who cross him, but for a videogame, and one that caters to all ages, Ganondorf is actually pretty good here.


The Spark of Humanity:

I think every truly "good" (well-written, well-done) villain has a little bit of "good" in them or at least banality. This reminds us that that we, ourselves, have our own darkness to guard against. If you see a villain who say, loves dogs as much as you do slaughter entire peoples, it is a to your core frightening thing because it means you share something "good" with someone who is very bad. If "pure evil" doesn't exist, it means that you are not immune from evil. Keep your guard up. It's also just plain realistic because no one wakes up one day and says "I feel like being evil today" unless it's something they're saying humorously or sarcastically. Even the most horrible of atrocities tend to start out well-intentioned in some way (even if it's twisted).

As this applies to Zelda: Ganondorf again. He particularly shows it in Wind Waker when he speaks about the hard life of his people in their hard land. I relate to it a lot because I grew up in a desert. I coveted the wind of a more temperate climate and got it by moving to the magical land of Pennsylvania. There actually seems to be some implication in his lines that the Hylians may have pushed and pressed the Gerudo to their desert, keeping them away from the easier climate.

In that game, he also has some great lines conceringing Hyrule's Triforce-Goddesses. He speaks of how they flooded the world rather than trying to save it. "Your gods have abandoned you!" Not everybody likes a "rage against the heavens" plot or characters that are quick to "blame God" for things, but in this case, it actually works/makes a point. Then again, I tend to think that Hyrule's Goddesses are more neutral than pure-benevolent or experimental and not always sure of what they're doing... in any case, it adds a little ambiguity to the role of the Hero as well as his stance as a villain and to their entire world set up.

Yet, at the same time, just because Ganondorf has some human reasons behind him and can make a nicely barbed point about the nature of their world, it doesn't make him a woobie-poo. He sends darkness to the Great Sea. He kidnaps children. During one point of the game, he tries to murder children. (He decides to spare Link and Zelda in the end parts of the game, but during that middle section when Link comes for Ayrll, Ganondorf is remorseless about telling Link to send a message to the dead that he is about to make the kid join). On top of that, he murdered the Sages, one being a childlike being and the other being possibly a last of her kind. So, he stays evil, and is all the scarier for it because he has a little spark of "good" or at least "understandable" that we can relate to.

.......

So, what do you think about he villains of this series and how they were done effectually or poorly?
 
Joined
Apr 6, 2011
Great topic and nicely done analysis for the villains and how they should be effective. The villains of Zelda have their ups and downs, ranging from creative to uninspired, but there are some memorable gems like Ganondorf or Ghirahim. In my personal opinion, the most effective villains for me are ones that that absolutely cruel and sadistic with no empathy of any kind. Villains like The Joker, Ridley, Lotso, and Ghetsis are despicable to the core and they often left me with a passion to play or root for the heroes wipe that smug off their faces. They attack both physically and psychologically on you and your loved ones. I always find these villains to be interesting because their evil makes wonder how they got there and how do they reflect upon our heroes.
 
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Shadsie

Sage of Tales
Great topic and nicely done analysis for the villains and how they should be effective. The villains of Zelda have their ups and downs, ranging from creative to uninspired, but there are some memorable gems like Ganondorf or Ghirahim. In my personal opinion, the most effective villains for me are ones that that absolutely cruel and sadistic with no empathy of any kind. Villains like The Joker, Ridley, Lotso, and Ghetsis are despicable to the core and they often left me with a passion to play or root for the heroes wipe that smug off their faces. They attack both physically and psychologically on you and your loved ones. I always find these villains to be interesting because their evil makes wonder how they got there and how do they reflect upon our heroes.

I thought I was running out of room and talking too much in the initial post, so I cut off before I started talking about Ghirahim. I think he fits quite well with the "pure sadistic" villain. The way he talks about torture and seems to get hot about it and his invasions of Link's personal space are very frightening. I think he actually comes the closest in the Zelda series to that villain from Firefly I spoke of - someone who loves torture and makes it personal.

Of course, being an all-ages / most-ages game, they really couldn't bring Ghirahim to his full potential on that. I also thought he suffered some unfortunately sterotypical behavior (some campiness that made me think he came out of a not-well-written fanfic) and that he *deeply* suffered the "I will make a speech and go away not even to make sure my pet monster kills the hero" syndrome.

Still, he does remain a well-done example of the "scary pure sadist" villain type, and I thought he was more interesting than his master. (Yes, I'm playing Demise in a roleplay on this forum right now. I'm *trying* to make him more interesting).
 
Joined
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The Imprisoned, I think, was meant to represent an all-consuming darkness, hence this walking all-mouth creature, but... it winds up looking downright cuddly becuase it's just a mouth with legs! QUOTE]

I actually think Nintendo was going for humor with the Imprisoned, at least after you'd fought it a few times. I remember bursting out laughing when he grew hands (extremely disproportional to his body) and when he started levitating in the air...LOL. At that point, I knew Nintendo wasn't being serious.
 
Joined
Feb 23, 2011
HatredHazard said:
I actually think Nintendo was going for humor with the Imprisoned, at least after you'd fought it a few times. I remember bursting out laughing when he grew hands (extremely disproportional to his body) and when he started levitating in the air...LOL. At that point, I knew Nintendo wasn't being serious.

I dunno... perhaps it is just my wild, lupine imagination, but in my opinion, the Imprisoned looked eerily similar to a Hellmouth - Simon Marmion's depiction to be precise.

Not sure if intentional, but I find it quite intriguing...
 
Joined
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I'd like to see a rival-villain in Zelda, kind of like what Azula is to Zuko in the Last Airbender or what Draco is to Harry in HP. Someone who's around the same age as Link, who starts out from the same background as him. You meet him (or her) multiple times throughout the quest, and each time you get stronger, but so does he. Towards the end, the main villain catches up to him and he becomes more than just a rival (like how Draco ends up serving Voldemort). I like these kinds of villains because they have such personal connections with the main character...my biggest problem with villains like Ganondorf and Demise are that they're so big and epic in scale (the darkest dark lord of allllll time!!) that it ends up getting really impersonal...in TP, the first time you meet Ganondorf is in the final battle.

Oh yeah, and what about female villains? Has there EVER been a female main villain in a Zelda game? No...right? That could be really interesting. I know most people automatically think femme fatale when they think of female villains, but what about the opposite--a really quiet, sweet little girl who ends up being in the "cosmic/incomprehensible horror" category mentioned by the OP? That would be pretty frightening.
 

Castle

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The only female villain in the Zelda series is Vernan, though you can count Twinrova as well.

In the beginning, TLoZ downplayed the story to a simple premise. Bad guy takes girl. Land in trouble. Go forth and fix things. Simple enough because games back then were simple. Ganon wasn't really given much character until Ocarina of Time, when he first appeared as human (Gerudo) rather than the bestial form he had only been prior to, but he was still just an unexplained greedy mustache twirling madman. Wind Waker is the first and only time he was given much of any depth or explanation for his actions.

Of course, then there are villains who require no explanation, like Majora, who is nothing but pure unbridled malevolence to the core because that's simply in its nature. This thing isn't even human, like Batman's Joker, it has no conceivable reason or motivation for seeking destruction. This can be appealing for its sheer terror aspect, which worked well for Majora's Mask, but can fall flat for more human characters. Even the Joker is human, though most of his appeal is in his unpredictable nature. Still doesn't mean there isn't a reason for his madness.

But Zelda has never really been big on story, has it? Only since ALttP has story received any sort of treatment beyond a simple premise. But Zelda's story is sloppy with tremendous inconsistencies both within and between titles, plot-holes, serious lack of exposition, extremely undefined characterization, and all sorts of stuff. Would it be nice if Zelda villains were more defined and fleshed out? Yeah, sure. Creating effective villains is compelling and really makes players understand them personally.

If you want an example of a game that makes effective use of villains look no further than The Witcher 2 Assassins of Kings, in which literally everyone is scum... and a potential villain!! Since the game allows players to choose which side to take, allies in one playthrough will be enemies in the next. You get to regret dealing harshly with enemies by understanding them, and come to want to kill allies for being so wretched. But each one has their own reasons for fighting and being the way they are, whether you personally like it or not. Most times I can't really say I blame them. It is absolutely masterful. There really is no "ultimate villain" in that game. And each character is given an extremely deep and fair treatment.
 

Ventus

Mad haters lmao
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Ghirahim
Ah this guy, such a flamboyant person...but I think that's where he ends. I am not sure what direction Nintendo wanted to take "Demon Lord" Ghirahim, but I felt he was a very ironic character whether through design or unfortunate circumstance. Throughout the game he goes around talking about how he'll kill Link, beat him within an inch of his life, or whatever other threats he had. He then accompanies that speech with some odd tongue licking. What is that? Taunting! Another way to look at it is Ghirahim intimidating Link, but with his appearance and erratic nature, I'm more inclined to say it's taunting.

Anyway, Ghirahim goes out and about constantly threatening Link, but simultaneously talks of how he's princely in that rash behavior does not befit his status. This creates a rift: on one hand we're supposed to be intimidated by this guy, but on the other he's some important person who does nothing but taunt us.

Even in the end, Ghirahim flashes his status around, with remarks on how his final form is so beautiful and all that.

Personally, I believe Ghirahim was pulled off 25% effective 75% poorly. His bipolar attitude to everything wasn't intimidating, and it wasn't inviting to a fight in my opinion. If he had leaned one way or the other instead of trying to stick his hands in both pots, maybe he'd be more effective. But, as it is, I can't take him seriously at all.
 
Joined
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I'd like to see a rival-villain in Zelda, kind of like what Azula is to Zuko in the Last Airbender or what Draco is to Harry in HP. Someone who's around the same age as Link, who starts out from the same background as him. You meet him (or her) multiple times throughout the quest, and each time you get stronger, but so does he. Towards the end, the main villain catches up to him and he becomes more than just a rival (like how Draco ends up serving Voldemort). I like these kinds of villains because they have such personal connections with the main character...my biggest problem with villains like Ganondorf and Demise are that they're so big and epic in scale (the darkest dark lord of allllll time!!) that it ends up getting really impersonal...in TP, the first time you meet Ganondorf is in the final battle.

Dudette... I couldn't agree more... This is exactly what the series needs. Interestingly enough, I held high hopes that Groose would fit this archetype and side with the bad guys. I dunno... I guess I saw many Ganondorf-like qualities in Groose (albeit very loose qualities). Unfortunately, that was not the case and *spoiler alert*, Groose turned out to be a good guy in the end. Whelp, at least I got to see a bit of character development for once. ;j
 

ihateghirahim

The Fierce Deity
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I think Dark Link should be a sort this rival villain to Link. They would be just like Samus and Dark Samus in Metroid Prime. This could blossom into an epic rivalry. Two men with the same abilities battling again and again, one for good and one for evil. Now that is a game I want to see. Imagine the battles and dungeons these two rivals could go through on their quest for the Triforce.

As for The Imprisoned, I thought he looked pretty intimidating. A massive monster with no eyes and million teeth climbing from the lowest pit in the the land. Now that is epic. This concept of the huge villain climbing out of the pit should be reused in future games.

Also, Ganondorf should receive some real motives and origins. What about a noble cause he undertook before he went totally insane? Then he could find the ghost of Demise and absorb his power or something like that. Nintendo will have to work to tie these two together, but I feel a connection can be established.
 

Sir Quaffler

May we meet again
I personally liked how The Imprisoned was handled. Initially he looks kinda goofy, kinda like a black, razor-toothed Barney. But then the fight against him takes that away (at least for me) and he becomes much more of a threat. Also, the fact that he keeps coming back with more powers led players to believe there's more to this thing than what we're seeing, like The Imprisoned is just a primordial form. And we were right, when The Imprisoned takes Zelda's soul he transforms into his true being, and wow is he intimidating! No more goofy-looking dinosaur, Demise is a muscle-bound Hulk of a man with flaming hair and scales on his skin, he looks like he can really put a hurting on you. And he actually has the strength to back it up, making him even more intimidating because he can actually kick your *** instead of merely looking like he can.

But for me personally, the most effective villains are the ones we don't take seriously at first but are revealed throughout the story to be a true monster.

Kefka Palazzo from Final Fantasy 6 is my favorite villain from games precisely because of this. We first see him as some sort of weird-looking lackey for the emperor, with very kooky dialogue to boot. Very campy villain at first. But then as the story goes on we get to see just how far he will go to get power, from poisoning an entire kingdom to killing all the espers that come at him & absorbing their power. This all culminates in his out-of-left-field betrayal of the Emperor, where he takes the power of the Warring Triad and goes on to destroy the entire world, with you as the players unable to do a thing to stop him. In the second half, we see that now he's become the god of this world, he likes to pick off and kill people from his tower just because he likes killing people, like a kid with a magnifying glass frying ants. When confronted at the end, he's shown to be a true nihilist, seeing no value in life whatsoever and wanting to kill everybody because that's the only joy he gets out of life. Then he goes all One-Winged Angel on us and attempts to kill everything just because he can.

Ghetsis is also a really effective villain because of this same principle. At first he appears to be trying to talk people into liberating Pokemon, but is later shown to be trying to get it so that only he himself has Pokemon left so that he can rule the region. He's shown to be an extremely manipulative person, pulling the strings behind all the major players, particularly N. After his plans are exposed he's shown as willing to hurt and even kill children who get between him and his goals. What a monster.
 
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I thought Ghirahim was done very well, and one of the best of Zelda's more recent villains. As the spirit of Demise's sword, he makes a nice parallel to Fi. His flamboyant sadism and space-invading weirdness are entertaining to watch. And above all, even though you beat him time and time again, his determination is such that he ultimately beats you and achieves his goal. Fun, creepy, and effective--a great example of the sadistic villain.

However, my personal favorite Zelda baddie is still Majora. It is a primordial force of evil, desiring nothing less than the torment and death of Termina and all its inhabitants. It's not enough for it to engineer the apocalypse--it does so in a way that every citizen of Termina will see coming, but will be able to do nothing to stop. That sense of powerlessness is terrible enough, but Majora goes further, causing other natural disasters and even finding ways to torment the Terminians on a personal level. And, most frighteningly of all, it causes all this pain and destruction for no discernible reason.

And, whereas the OP found Majora's physical manifestations lacking, I found them extremely effective at making this villain even more unrelateable. Majora's Mask emphasizes that this entity is fundamentally a thing, and not a person. Majora's Incarnation is a prancing mockery of humanity, Majora's opinion of us made manifest. Majora's Wrath is an exercise in dualities: it has the body of an adult and the personality of a child; its musculature is male, but it bears female markings and a feminine voice. These conflicting elements, combined with its lack of any understandable goals, make Majora a truly incomprehensible evil.
 

Sir Quaffler

May we meet again
I thought Ghirahim was done very well, and one of the best of Zelda's more recent villains. As the spirit of Demise's sword, he makes a nice parallel to Fi. His flamboyant sadism and space-invading weirdness are entertaining to watch. And above all, even though you beat him time and time again, his determination is such that he ultimately beats you and achieves his goal. Fun, creepy, and effective--a great example of the sadistic villain.

Oh man, I forgot to add that element to my first post. Having the villain actually succeed in his ultimate goal is another really good way to make him an effective villain. Ghirahim and Kefka share that aspect, in that, unlike the absolute vast majority of other villains, they actually SUCCEED in their ultimate goal, and you have to deal with the fallout of that.

Nice post, ColdRadio.
 

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