General Zelda Dungeon Map And Compass

[A Link In Time]

Over the past few years, Nintendo has been experimenting with two signature dungeon items, the map and compass. Both were included in the older games. Players couldn't see the layout of the dungeon or the location of treasure chests when first entering a dungeon. The recent handheld games have strayed away from the dungeon map showing the dungeon's outline immediately upon entering. Their contemporary console counterpart, Skyward Sword, offers only a dungeon map, which also fulfills the role of the compass.

Which of these dungeon item inclusions and functions do you prefer? Which do you find the most effective? Do you think recent approaches to the map and compass have made dungeons easier or have they reduced the hassle of braving these dangerous lairs?

 

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

I personally prefer the method of finding both yourself. But I think there's a more focused way that it should be done.

The map should be fairly easy to obtain, since it's a major point of being able to complete the simple task of just effectively moving around. No map = NES Metroid = Not cool in 2013. I think the all of the 3D games up until SS did this pretty well, with SS being the obvious exception because it gave you one from the start. I don't really like that approach, because I think there's a lot of value of having that "NES Metroid" lost feeling for just a little while, and then seeing the map. One cool feeling to invoke from the player is when they think to themselves "Whoa...... This dungeon is waaaaaaaay bigger than I thought". It's better than just telling the player how expansive it is right off the bat, and adds a neat element of surprise while still eliminating no-map frustration.

For the compass, I think it's also a good idea to have it as a separate item. But it should be more difficult to obtain than the map. This kind of ties into what I think of dungeon design in general, but I feel that dungeons should packed to the brim with extra chests and secrets. I was a big fan of TP's decision to put heart pieces in dungeons, because it made seeking out the chests you missed more rewarding, in contrast to just sticking some red rupees in them and calling it a day. These chests with extra items should be super obscure, almost to a point where you NEED the compass to properly identify what you missed. This makes getting the compass a priority, and further adds value to it as an individual item outside of the map. Obtaining the compass makes dungeon crawling further rewarding, because now you can be positive that you cleared out and given level of all its secrets.

 

[The Jade Fist]

I personally prefer the method of finding both yourself. But I think there's a more focused way that it should be done.

The map should be fairly easy to obtain, since it's a major point of being able to complete the simple task of just effectively moving around. No map = NES Metroid = Not cool in 2013. I think the all of the 3D games up until SS did this pretty well, with SS being the obvious exception because it gave you one from the start. I don't really like that approach, because I think there's a lot of value of having that "NES Metroid" lost feeling for just a little while, and then seeing the map. One cool feeling to invoke from the player is when they think to themselves "Whoa...... This dungeon is waaaaaaaay bigger than I thought". It's better than just telling the player how expansive it is right off the bat, and adds a neat element of surprise while still eliminating no-map frustration.

For the compass, I think it's also a good idea to have it as a separate item. But it should be more difficult to obtain than the map. This kind of ties into what I think of dungeon design in general, but I feel that dungeons should packed to the brim with extra chests and secrets. I was a big fan of TP's decision to put heart pieces in dungeons, because it made seeking out the chests you missed more rewarding, in contrast to just sticking some red rupees in them and calling it a day. These chests with extra items should be super obscure, almost to a point where you NEED the compass to properly identify what you missed. This makes getting the compass a priority, and further adds value to it as an individual item outside of the map. Obtaining the compass makes dungeon crawling further rewarding, because now you can be positive that you cleared out and given level of all its secrets.

I personally didn't like the heart pieces in dungeons for a bit of an odd reason. I didn't want to grab the heart pieces by accident, and combined with putting all the ruppees back into the chest, I could never remember/ keep track of what chest I need to avoid.

Now as much as I liked having to find both, I'm not sure its that big of a deal one way or the other.

 

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

I personally didn't like the heart pieces in dungeons for a bit of an odd reason. I didn't want to grab the heart pieces by accident, and combined with putting all the ruppees back into the chest, I could never remember/ keep track of what chest I need to avoid.

Now as much as I liked having to find both, I'm not sure its that big of a deal one way or the other.

TP definitely dropped the ball with rupees in general. It was absurd the amount of times that you'd find yourself maxed out on rupees, and then putting them back in the chests? Stupid decision. But I do think that could be remedied with upping the rupee limit, and just taking out the putting them back in chests mechanic. I do think heart pieces in dungeons adds an extra dimension and more motivation to additional exploration, so there's that. Having them in both the dungeons and the over-world balances out the exploration pretty well. It's just a mechanic that needed to be thought out more in TP, and wasn't executed that well.

 

[Justac00lguy]

I'm glad you addressed this as I feel dungeons need a complete overhaul.

First off, yes I do think both should be included but only under certain circumstances. The standard dungeon has four dungeon items: the dungeon map, the compass, the dungeon weapon and the boss key. Each item is usually placed in a specific position so that the player is bound to find them in order of importance. I find this too predicable as well as easy and it's why I believe something needs to be changed.

A few titles have decided to deviate away from this, to be more specific, the two most recent titles. Skyward Sword decided to combine the two together and A Link Between Worlds just utilised the compass while you already a map. Now this actually seemed more logical, but I think it's better to have both and I'll explain why:

Dungeons should be like mazes and they should be the pinnacle of challenge. I feel Nintendo forget this sometimes. Going into a dungeon completely oblivious to direction and what's ahead is what should happen; essentially, we should feel lost. The dungeon map serves as giving us that help and it's a relief when get said item; however, the map needs to feel like a luxury and usually it's just given to us as we naturally progress through the dungeon. First off, the dungeon map should be hidden somewhat and it should require challenge to obtain - I think in order for this to happen we need to have a dungeon which isn't entirely linear. This would allow for the map to be hidden away from the natural progression of the dungeon and we should have to go out of our way to find it. This way you get a better sense of reward.

The same goes for the compass although usually we either find the compass within close proximity to the map or near the end. Both aren't ideal. Finding both key items near the start takes away from the reward and the separation between them. Finding the compass near the end is redundant as by then you've already discovered most rooms, and probably, most treasures. The ideal is about halfway through the dungeon structure-- and much like the map-- it should be a challenge to get and it shouldn't be in plain sight. However, there is another factor: why should we want it? I don't know about everyone else but I find the compass to be pretty useless. Most of the time I don't care for the odd rupee as I'm usually already content. So I'm suggesting that dungeon treasures should be more varied and give better rewards. In fact I like the way A Link Between Worlds put good rewards on some chests: things like sword and magic upgrades etc. If dungeons were to expand upon this then I'd be happy.

So yeah, I think that the compass and map should be used but only under certain circumstances. I find the typical usage of them to be quite redundant and it's definitely something Nintendo nerd to think about.

 

[PhantomTriforce]

I think both a map and a compass should be included in dungeons.

I believe that when Link gets the map, the entire outline of the dungeon including floors and rooms should be shown. The rooms Link has not visited yet should be black and the ones he has visited should be green or whatever color.

When Link gets the compass, more specifics are revealed, such as what room he is in, where he entered from, where the treasure chests are, where the boss is, and anything else that is important (for example, in OoT's Water Temple, the locations of the level-changing walls would be shown as long as he has used it at least once and he has the compass).

I hope don't do it like the DS games or Skyward Sword anymore.

 

[JuicieJ]

I really don't care. The compass has rarely ever been useful, so the map is all that's ever really mattered, and even then I've rarely needed it after the first playthrough. This is one thing I'm confused on regarding A Link Between Worlds -- it did the complete opposite of Skyward Sword by having the map already revealed and the COMPASS hidden in a chest. It wasn't a big deal, but it was strange nonetheless.

 

[Mangachick14]

Honestly, I'd prefer either no compass at all, or--if we really must have it-- SS's method of combining the two. Really, I hardly ever use or pay any attention to the compass, even on first playthroughs. I always find it quite disappointing when I open up a chest and get a compass, especially when I thought it was going to be a key or something more useful.

 

[The Jade Fist]

TP definitely dropped the ball with rupees in general. It was absurd the amount of times that you'd find yourself maxed out on rupees, and then putting them back in the chests? Stupid decision. But I do think that could be remedied with upping the rupee limit, and just taking out the putting them back in chests mechanic. I do think heart pieces in dungeons adds an extra dimension and more motivation to additional exploration, so there's that. Having them in both the dungeons and the over-world balances out the exploration pretty well. It's just a mechanic that needed to be thought out more in TP, and wasn't executed that well.

Ya well its why I did a 4 heart a challenge in TP...

I think ALBW does this special prizes in the dungeons a little better, as in they are all optional upgrades.

 

[Ventus]

I think we should have a minimap function as it does in Darksiders II (dunno if it is the same in DS1) wherein we don't get the layout until we come the area and finally reach that Dungeon Map wherever it's hidden away. Still, retain that compass for items like chests, keys, and especially heart pieces.

 

[Salem]

I feel as though there should not be a dungeon map, the dungeon's layout should be revealed as you explore only, the compass can be retained for chest and location of the boss only.

 

[the8thark]

The issue for me is not whether the compass and map exist as separate items. For the issue is how each works.

The Compass. It shows you where the chests are. But not what is in them so there is still an element of mystery there.
The Map. It shows the whole map. And since almost every single Zelda game after Zelda 1 has very easy to navigate dungeons, there is nothing left left to mystery. In Zelda 1 even with the map you had no idea which stairway went to where, if a wall was solid, bombable, one way walk through or two way walk through. There was still an element of mystery. And this is my issue with the map.

So what possible changes could be made?
Compass:
Make it show only how many chests are left not open in the dungeon but not say where in the dungeon the chests are.
An idea I just had is to remove the compass as a dungeon item but you earn it early on and it works for all dungeons in the above method.
Another idea is for the compass to not show you how many chests are or where they are in the traditional sense. The compass would just beep when you enter a room if there is still chests in the dungeon. You'd get a louder beep if you are closer to a chest room.

Map:
Actually design dungeons that require thought to progress. Not just each room being complex. The 3D Zeldas do this well. I mean make each dungeon a maze of rooms. Like Zelda 1. Don't tell the player where to go next. Don't tell the player that a certain wall is walk through etc etc. Make it a real maze. In this sense the map would just limit the trial and error you'd need to move from room to room. That's how it worked in Zelda 1 and I think it worked brilliantly there.
Some maps could be incomplete. It's legit. A map sitting in a chest for a very long time. It's plausible some of the map has faded over time.
You might not get a map from a chest. A person in the dungeon could give it to you. And it's interpretation of the dungeon map might be different than what is really there. (This happened in the desert in SS and worked well).

just a few ideas.

 

[Beauts]

The only time I ever found the compass useful was during OoT's Water Temple. I used to kind of find the compass pointless, so I quite liked it's merge with the map in SS, made things seem less pointless to me.

 

[Zurriel]

What if in the Zelda WiiU game you could get the map. BUT, it's incomplete and you have to use the tablet to draw the map as you went though each room that wasn't marked. I don't mean literately drawing everything, that wouldn't work at all. More like the map is made based on how you go though rooms.....(Did that make any sense?)

 

[JuicieJ]

What if in the Zelda WiiU game you could get the map. BUT, it's incomplete and you have to use the tablet to draw the map as you went though each room that wasn't marked. I don't mean literately drawing everything, that wouldn't work at all. More like the map is made based on how you go though rooms.....(Did that make any sense?)

So like a lesser form of that one island in Phantom Hourglass? I wouldn't mind that for one dungeon as one of its core mechanics, but I don't think I'd like to see it be a recurring thing.